Cosmos Without Gravitation

How ironic! OilIsMastery has hijacked his own thread with an off-topic post chock-full of out-of-context quotes.

Rather than derailing the thread, how about responding to the critiques of the original post?
 
OIM:

You mean like the courtesy that I receive when moderators call me an idiot (allegedly against forum rules) and ban me for posting a video of an electron?

So, you decline to display basic manners to posters who help you. Noted.

Also noted is that you ignored most of the substance of my previous post, to focus on one issue only. I will respond to that issue and assume you agree with the other points I made.

Here is my evidence: Kant, I., Critique of Pure Reason, 1781.

Kant was a philosopher, not a physicist. Also, this was written in 1781 - before much was known about space and time.

"Classic quantum mechanics seems to exhibit some of the characteristics that Immanuel Kant described about the relation between phenomenal reality in space and time and things-in-themselves." -- Kelley L. Ross, philosopher, 1997

Another philosopher. This out-of-context quote is so vague that by itself it is next to useless.

"The arguments of Hume and Kant have been confirmed by quantum mechanics." -- Sunny Y. Auyang, physicist, 1995

Which arguments? Another out-of-context quote. Please quote the entire passage. Or is this yet another dishonest attempt on your part to mislead readers?

"Quite generally there is no way of describing what happens between two consecutive observations. It is of course tempting to say that the electron must have been somewhere between the two observations and that therefore the electron must have described some kind of path or orbit even if it may be impossible to know which path. This would be a reasonable argument in classical physics. But in quantum physics it would be a misuse of the language which, as we will see later, cannot be justified." -- Werner Heisenberg, physicist, 1958

This is correct, but irrelevant to the argument that spacetime exists.

"The belief in an external world independent of the observing subject lies at the foundation of all natural science. However, since sense-perceptions only inform us about this external world, or physical reality, indirectly, it is only in a speculative way that it can be grasped by us. Consequently our conceptions of physical reality can never be final. We must always be ready to change these conceptions, i.e. the axiomatic basis of physics, in order to do justice to the facts of observation in the most complete way that is logically possible. In actual fact, a glance at the development of physics shows that this axiomatic basis has met with radical changes from time to time." -- Albert Einstein, mathematician, 1931

An insightful comment. I note that you rely on Einstein when it suits your purposes, but at other times you claim he was completely wrong.

You're flip-flopping as to whether you trust Einstein or not. Which is it?

"If nothing is observable, it is only proper to say that nothing is happening; the system is settled into a spaceless and timeless stationary state outside our intuitions." -- Clinton Joseph Davisson, physicist, 1927

Another out-of-context quote that requires context to have any meaning at all.
 
Kant was a philosopher, not a physicist.
You cannot be a physicist unless you are a philosopher.

Also, Kant was a physicst first and foremost.

"Kant pointed out in the middle of last century, what had not previously been discovered by mathematicians or physical astronomers, that the frictional resistance against tidal currents on the earth's surface must cause a diminution of the earth's rotational speed. This really great discovery in Natural Philosophy seems to have attracted little attention,--indeed to have passed quite unnoticed, --among mathematicians, and astronomers, and naturalists, until about 1840, when the doctrine of energy began to be taken to heart." -- Lord Kelvin, physicist, 1897

"Lord Kelvin has rightly pointed out that no previous mathematician or physical astronomer had discovered or anticipated Kant's solution--and with this Professor Tait and M. Wolf agree; so that it appears to be absolutely original." -- Thomas Wright, historian, 1900

Also, this was written in 1781 - before much was known about space and time.
:roflmao:

Nothing true can be said about space or time without reference to Kant.

"To suppose a reader thoroughly indifferent to Kant, is to suppose him thoroughly unintellectual...." -- Thomas De Quincey, author, 1827

Another philosopher.
I only quoted one.
 
No he wasn't.
You're being ignorant.

"The sort of geological speculation to which I am now referring (geological aetiology, in short) was created as a science by that famous philosopher, Immanuel Kant, when, in 1775 [1755], he wrote his General Natural History and Theory of the Celestial Bodies; or, an Attempt to Account for the Constitutional and Mechanical Origin of the Universe, upon Newtonian Principles." -- Thomas H. Huxley, biologist, 1869

"Kant pointed out in the middle of last century, what had not previously been discovered by mathematicians or physical astronomers, that the frictional resistance against tidal currents on the earth's surface must cause a diminution of the earth's rotational speed. This really great discovery in Natural Philosophy seems to have attracted little attention,--indeed to have passed quite unnoticed, --among mathematicians, and astronomers, and naturalists, until about 1840, when the doctrine of energy began to be taken to heart." -- Lord Kelvin, physicist, 1897

"Lord Kelvin has rightly pointed out that no previous mathematician or physical astronomer had discovered or anticipated Kant's solution--and with this Professor Tait and M. Wolf agree; so that it appears to be absolutely original." -- Thomas Wright, historian, 1900
 
I take it that this hijack of your own thread means you agree with Trippy and me that Velikovksy's arguments as described in the original post are false.
 
OIM:

You cannot be a physicist unless you are a philosopher.

Nonsense.

Also, Kant was a physicst first and foremost.

That is a lie.

Nothing true can be said about space or time without reference to Kant.

Nonsense.

"To suppose a reader thoroughly indifferent to Kant, is to suppose him thoroughly unintellectual...." -- Thomas De Quincey, author, 1827

Another out-of-context quote. Quincey was referring to philosophy.

OIM:

Your misleading quote-mining must stop. It amounts to trolling, and my patience is wearing thin.

Either you do not understand the content of what you quote, and so quote it out of context, or else you do understand and are deliberately seeking to mislead your readers.

In the first case, you should get yourself and education before attempting to use quotes. In the second case, you must learn to have some personal integrity.

Either way, further out-of-context quotes from you will now result in a ban from sciforums for the period of 1 month. Consider carefully before you quote somebody again...
 
That is a lie.
Kant was a physicist. You cannot be an Aristotelian Metaphysician without first being a physicist. Metaphysics literally means things which come after physics...:rolleyes:

"The sort of geological speculation to which I am now referring (geological aetiology, in short) was created as a science by that famous philosopher, Immanuel Kant, when, in 1775 [1755], he wrote his General Natural History and Theory of the Celestial Bodies; or, an Attempt to Account for the Constitutional and Mechanical Origin of the Universe, upon Newtonian Principles." -- Thomas H. Huxley, biologist, 1869

"Kant pointed out in the middle of last century, what had not previously been discovered by mathematicians or physical astronomers, that the frictional resistance against tidal currents on the earth's surface must cause a diminution of the earth's rotational speed. This really great discovery in Natural Philosophy seems to have attracted little attention,--indeed to have passed quite unnoticed, --among mathematicians, and astronomers, and naturalists, until about 1840, when the doctrine of energy began to be taken to heart." -- Lord Kelvin, physicist, 1897

"Lord Kelvin has rightly pointed out that no previous mathematician or physical astronomer had discovered or anticipated Kant's solution--and with this Professor Tait and M. Wolf agree; so that it appears to be absolutely original." -- Thomas Wright, historian, 1900
 
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OIM:

Your statement was:

Also, Kant was a physicst first and foremost.

Your out-of-context quotes do nothing to back up your statement that Kant was first and foremost a physicist.

It's a stupid statement on its face.

I note also that you repeated your out-of-context quotes following my previous warning to you. In case you really are too stupid to realise your errors, let me just say this:

"Lord Kelvin has rightly pointed out that no previous mathematician or physical astronomer had discovered or anticipated Kant's solution--and with this Professor Tait and M. Wolf agree; so that it appears to be absolutely original." -- Thomas Wright, historian, 1900

This quote is out of context. Why? Primarily because we don't know which "solution" of Kant's it is referring to. You have not quoted enough of the surrounding material to even give a hint.

In the context of the rest of your post, we are apparently supposed to think that it has something to do with a theory of gravity. But who knows?

We also aren't given any hint as to who Professor Tait and M. Wolf are, and why their support of Kant's "solution" is supposed to be important to us.

Now, I require you to provide the context for this specific quote, or be banned from sciforums. You have 24 hours.
 
Your out-of-context quotes do nothing to back up your statement that Kant was first and foremost a physicist.
They don't?

It's a stupid statement on its face.
It's stupid to say metaphysics means things which come after physics?

This quote is out of context. Why? Primarily because we don't know which "solution" of Kant's it is referring to.
If you read the quotes you would know what they are refering to. The 1754 papers (1) the above referenced nebular paper referenced by Huxley and (2) the paper on the retardation of the rotation of the Earth referenced by Kelvin.

You have not quoted enough of the surrounding material to even give a hint.
If you read the quotes it's not necessary. The two 1754 papers. The Nebular paper and the Rotation paper.

Now, I require you to provide the context for this specific quote, or be banned from sciforums. You have 24 hours.
See above.
 
Since when is out of context quoting a bannable offense?
http://www.sciforums.com/announcement.php?f=6
Rules said:
13. Repeat offenders

The moderators here are not paid for their work, and have limited time. We do not look kindly on posters whom we have to watch continually for breaches of the forum rules. If we find that your posts are requiring continual moderation attention, you will first be warned by personal message. If the inappropriate posts continue, you will be banned.



I'd say OIM has much less leeway than other members of Sci.
Are you kidding? I'd say you moderators have given OIM more leeway than almost any other abusive poster here!
 
Moderator note: OIM has been permanently banned from sciforums for continual trolling.

Obviously, this obviates my request in post #31. This ban relates to OIM's behaviour in both this thread and several others.
 
http://www.sciforums.com/announcement.php?f=6

Originally Posted by Rules
13. Repeat offenders

The moderators here are not paid for their work, and have limited time. We do not look kindly on posters whom we have to watch continually for breaches of the forum rules. If we find that your posts are requiring continual moderation attention, you will first be warned by personal message. If the inappropriate posts continue, you will be banned. "

This says nothing about out of context quoting specifically, which was the violation. This just shows the rule that allows a witch hunt.

Are you kidding? I'd say you moderators have given OIM more leeway than almost any other abusive poster here!

OIM's threads were watched more than any others. I guarantee it.
 
Moderator note: OIM has been permanently banned from sciforums for continual trolling.

Obviously, this obviates my request in post #31. This ban relates to OIM's behaviour in both this thread and several others.

woot!
 
If I may be forgiven borrowing OilIsMastery's techniques for a moment.

"Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable." -Michael Palin (et al) Historian.

We may therefore disregard anything Kant had to say as the delusional ramblings of a Drunkard.

Now...

There's two or three major holes in this logic, which aren't immeadiately obvious without the context of the quote.
 
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