Capitalism is freedom?

Thomas G Fruge said:
The biggest lie is saying Capitalism is about Freedom. What B.S! Capitalism robs you of living freely. You can try and rationalize its need for its existence, with that B.S. but the bottom line is, it all comes down to a society built on the worst flaws of mankind, greed and selfishness and the need to control have power over land, resources other people's lives through the monetary system using money as fuel , a system that feeds the greed and selfish ambitions of individuals who don't care about other people's freedom or rights, because they profit off of the people's dependency of owners, for their wants and needs, that the people are willing to compromise their freedom and rights to become servants to the ruling class for a false sense of security, that they (the people) will be taken care of by these Private owners. By doing this we've created a ruling class, having control over our lives economically just like the Kings/ Queens. The other lie is socialism wouldn't work. Socialism would work if the people would recognize that it's their own greed, selfishness, prejudices, hate and ignorance prevents them from achieving true freedom. These things may be part of our nature, but we shouldn't let it control and prevent us from coming together, creating a world that benefit us all. But by keeping us separated and divided we are preventing ourselves from achieving it. If we only put our differences aside and used our better nature Peace, Love, respect, and caring for one another. To build what the worst of mankind's nature could not do. Have us organizing working together for the interest of the many, not the one or the few. Not putting it in the hands of the one or few to decide what's best for the rest of us., The definition of a Fascist Dictator is one who has control over land and resources, capitalizing on the wants, needs and even the hardships of the people, and exploiting the people's lives for their own personal gain of wealth and power. Which is the true definition of Capitalism. Its creating a society ruled by the wealthier class, having power over the common class. Making those that exploit the lives of the people, the ruling class, our society has become like the society ruled by Kings /Queens, Nobles landowners. The very thing we are supposed to prevent living under again, yet here we are, being taxed, the cost-of-living pricing us out of our freedom to live freely.
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Describe your idea of a better system - political and economic.
 
Thomas G Fruge said:
The biggest lie is saying Capitalism is about Freedom. What B.S! Capitalism robs you of living freely.
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It does no such thing. You are free to not work and live with your parents for the rest of your (or their) lives.

"The other lie is socialism wouldn't work." Socialism does work. We use it. Roads - socialist. Military - socialist. Power generation - an odd hybrid of capitalist and socialist. The CDC - socialist. Air traffic control - socialist. And on and on.

"The definition of a Fascist Dictator is one who has control over land and resources, capitalizing on the wants, needs and even the hardships of the people, and exploiting the people's lives for their own personal gain of wealth and power." And part of that definition is that he must not allow his subjects to leave. If they can leave - he's not a dictator. If they can leave but are too lazy to leave - he's not a dictator.

Capitalism is the worst system we have tried, with the exception of every single other system we have tried. The USSR comes to mind - as does North Korea and China.
 
Thomas G Fruge said:
The biggest lie is saying Capitalism is about Freedom. What B.S! Capitalism robs you of living freely. You can try and rationalize its need for its existence, with that B.S. but the bottom line is, it all comes down to a society built on the worst flaws of mankind, greed and selfishness and the need to control have power over land, resources other people's lives through the monetary system using money as fuel , a system that feeds the greed and selfish ambitions of individuals who don't care about other people's freedom or rights, because they profit off of the people's dependency of owners, for their wants and needs, that the people are willing to compromise their freedom and rights to become servants to the ruling class for a false sense of security, that they (the people) will be taken care of by these Private owners. By doing this we've created a ruling class, having control over our lives economically just like the Kings/ Queens. The other lie is socialism wouldn't work. Socialism would work if the people would recognize that it's their own greed, selfishness, prejudices, hate and ignorance prevents them from achieving true freedom. These things may be part of our nature, but we shouldn't let it control and prevent us from coming together, creating a world that benefit us all. But by keeping us separated and divided we are preventing ourselves from achieving it. If we only put our differences aside and used our better nature Peace, Love, respect, and caring for one another. To build what the worst of mankind's nature could not do. Have us organizing working together for the interest of the many, not the one or the few. Not putting it in the hands of the one or few to decide what's best for the rest of us., The definition of a Fascist Dictator is one who has control over land and resources, capitalizing on the wants, needs and even the hardships of the people, and exploiting the people's lives for their own personal gain of wealth and power. Which is the true definition of Capitalism. Its creating a society ruled by the wealthier class, having power over the common class. Making those that exploit the lives of the people, the ruling class, our society has become like the society ruled by Kings /Queens, Nobles landowners. The very thing we are supposed to prevent living under again, yet here we are, being taxed, the cost-of-living pricing us out of our freedom to live freely.
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The cool thing about this forum is that paragraphs are free. Maybe use a few while you are resurrecting a 12 year old thread?
 
shichimenshyo said:
Capitalism is defined as:

an economic and political system in which property, business, and industry are owned by private individuals and not by the state.

I would like to discuss whether or not a capitalist society constitutes a free society. Do you think a purely Capitalist Society would be a free one? Why or why not?

Please please please post evidence to support your assertions. :D
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Hi, shichimenshyo,

Such a nice question.

A thing is always in a connection (that means a thing is always in a space = there are rules upon it/him/her ("logic")
(for people and such that means a society). /an axiom/

= = =

First of all, freedom is ALWAYS IN SINGULAR!
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=freedom

If anyone talks about "freedoms", that one does not understand or that one is a con-artist (some kind of a politician).

= = =

To have, to have, to have, ... (let's say it is all about 1's). /"capitalism"/

To be equal, to be equal, to be equal, ... (let's say it is all about 0's). /"socialism"/

It is a Binary system. One does not (en-)code entirely in 1's and one does not (en-)code entirely in 0's. One needs both.

= = =

Consciousness is a machine. It perceives the "world" in a such a way and it transforms the "world" in a such a way.
 
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O. W. Grant said:
First of all, freedom is ALWAYS IN SINGULAR!
If anyone talks about "freedoms", that one does not understand or that one is a con-artist (some kind of a politician).
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False.

There are different kinds of freedoms.

"United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt once made a speech on what he called the "Four Freedoms: freedom of speech and expression, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear."
https://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/freedoms#:~:text=Singular,one (kind of) freedom.
 
DaveC426913 said:
False.

There are different kinds of freedoms.

"United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt once made a speech on what he called the "Four Freedoms: freedom of speech and expression, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear."
https://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/freedoms#:~:text=Singular,one (kind of) freedom.
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Hi, DaveC426913,

It is nice to hear from you.

Of course freedom can be used as countable. But in that case the speaker does not use word/language properly or changes the meaning of the word.

"... a con-artist (some kind of a politician)."

"Roosevelt was reelected in 1940 for his third term, making him the only U.S. president to serve for more than two terms." (Wikipedia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak

William Lutz, professor of English at Rutgers University, talked about his book Double-Speak: The Use of Language to Deceive You.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?10449-1/doublespeak


It's been a pleasure reading your post.
O. W. Grant.
 
O. W. Grant said:
Of course freedom can be used as countable. But in that case the speaker does not use word/language properly or changes the meaning of the word.
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No. Freedoms is countable. So is moneys, by the way, for the same reason.

Your opinion of what is "not proper" is wrong.
 
To have, to have, to have, ... (let's say it is all about 1's). /"capitalism"/


capital(2) n /U/ wealth/money/property that may be used for the production of more wealth; ...

capitalism n /U/ economic system in which a country's trade and industry are organized and controlled by the owners of capital, ...

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English, Oxford University Press 1974

- - -

economic (adj.)
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=economic


= = =

George W. Bush: " This is an impressive crowd. The haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base".

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4506459/user-clip-haves-mores


- - -

al-Qaeda, Arabic al-Qāʿidah (“the Base”), ...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/al-Qaeda
 
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O. W. Grant said:
To have, to have, to have, ... (let's say it is all about 1's). /"capitalism"/


capital(2) n /U/ wealth/money/property that may be used for the production of more wealth; ...

capitalism n /U/ economic system in which a country's trade and industry are organized and controlled by the owners of capital, ...

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English, Oxford University Press 1974

- - -

economic (adj.)
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=economic


= = =

George W. Bush: " This is an impressive crowd. The haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base".

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4506459/user-clip-haves-mores


- - -

al-Qaeda, Arabic al-Qāʿidah (“the Base”), ...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/al-Qaeda
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Most modern "capitalists" states have mixed economies.
 
shichimenshyo said:
Capitalism is defined as:

an economic and political system in which property, business, and industry are owned by private individuals and not by the state.

I would like to discuss whether or not a capitalist society constitutes a free society. Do you think a purely Capitalist Society would be a free one? Why or why not?

Please please please post evidence to support your assertions. :D
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in a pure capitalist society a baby is born owning and having rights to nothing
it is only socialism that gives rights to the baby to food and health care and housing

so no
capitalism is not freedom
it is enslavement to money
 
RainbowSingularity said:
in a pure capitalist society a baby is born owning and having rights to nothing
it is only socialism that gives rights to the baby to food and health care and housing

so no
capitalism is not freedom
it is enslavement to money
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What nations these days are capitalist according to this definition? I don't know of any.
 
RainbowSingularity said:
in a pure capitalist society a baby is born owning and having rights to nothing
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This is false.

For example: in many capitalist societies, newborn babies have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as well as many other things. Because the law upholds those rights. Capitalism has nothing to do with rights.

I am not sure why you added the word "pure" that precedes "capitalism", but whatever you mean by it, it doesn't serve to negate the word "society" that follows the word "capitalism".
 
DaveC426913 said:
This is false.

For example: in many capitalist societies, newborn babies have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as well as many other things. Because the law upholds those rights. Capitalism has nothing to do with rights.

I am not sure why you added the word "pure" that precedes "capitalism", but whatever you mean by it, it doesn't serve to negate the word "society" that follows the word "capitalism".
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in the usa do babys have a right to food, housing and healthcare ?
 
RainbowSingularity said:
in the usa do babys have a right to food, housing and healthcare ?
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Yes.

Google Civil Rights of Children in the United States
A selection:
  • A name and a nationality from birth.
  • Family care or parental care, or to appropriate alternative care when removed from the family environment.
  • Basic nutrition, shelter, basic health care services and social services.
  • Be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation.


(BTW, not that it matters, but I am not American.)
 
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DaveC426913 said:
Yes.

Google Civil Rights of Children in the United States
A selection:
  • A name and a nationality from birth.
  • Family care or parental care, or to appropriate alternative care when removed from the family environment.
  • Basic nutrition, shelter, basic health care services and social services.
  • Be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation.


(BTW, not that it matters, but I am not American.)
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The Right to Health
More than 8 million children in the United States have no health insurance, meaning about one in ten children. Thousands of others are underinsured, which impedes their right to quality health care services. Statistics show that these children are ten times less likely to receive treatment for conditions such as diabetes, asthma, oral diseases, and obesity. Children of ethic minorities (African-Americans or Hispanics) are more at risk than others : almost a quarter of them are not vaccinated against the most common serious illnesses.
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https://www.humanium.org/en/united-states-of-america/
 
The United States signed (in 1977) and ratified (in 1992) the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Under the terms of that treaty, nations that ratify it are obliged to protect and preserve basic human rights such as the right to life and to human dignity, equality before the law, freedom of speech, assembly and association, religious freedom and privacy, freedom from torture, ill-treatment and arbitrary detention, gender equality, fair trial and minority rights.

The US has also signed (in 1995) the Convention on the Rights of the Child, but is yet to ratify it. Apart from Somalia, the US is the only United Nations member state that has not yet ratified this treaty.
 
James R said:
The United States signed (in 1977) and ratified (in 1992) the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Under the terms of that treaty, nations that ratify it are obliged to protect and preserve basic human rights such as the right to life and to human dignity, equality before the law, freedom of speech, assembly and association, religious freedom and privacy, freedom from torture, ill-treatment and arbitrary detention, gender equality, fair trial and minority rights.

The US has also signed (in 1995) the Convention on the Rights of the Child, but is yet to ratify it. Apart from Somalia, the US is the only United Nations member state that has not yet ratified this treaty.
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However, otherwise there is no comparison between the U.S. and Somalia.
 
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