Can an animal sin?

That something is intelligence and hence a very good ability to survive and reproduce. Nothing more, nothing less. The "spirit" is created in the minds of people (not "man" or "mankind". jeez, don't you have respect for women?) when they become intelligent enough to look introvertly upon themselves. In doing so, it is easy for them to take the role of an objective observer, hence the ease our minds have with our consciousness exiting outside our bodies and floating around after we die.

You'll find humans and animals are made of the same basic ingredients.
 
It's not just intelligence is it?

there are very intelligent animals likes dolphins and some primates but all of them lack a sense of spirituality and a concept of mathematics....ideologies.
 
That's a good point, but just because other animals are relatively intelligent compared to us, doesn't mean that they should be looked to for spirituality and mathematics. It's not that these animals aren't intellectually developed, but that they are simply not intellectually developed enough. Needless to say, if we were somehow able to inject a dolphin or monkey with some super-dose of intelligence, some form of spirituality and mathematics could be found.

If that seems too rhetorical, take a child for instance. It doesn't consider spirituality and mathematics until it is intellectually developed enough for it.
 
You know I just thought of another interesting comparison. I read somewhere that a chimpanzee is the only animal besides us intelligent enough to recognize that the mirror shows a reflection of whatever is in front of it. In a research experiment, a chimp was shown itself in a mirror then a visually stimulating object was suspended above his head. He saw this in the mirror, and knowing it was his reflection, reached up for the object.

I think most would agree that it would have shown a significant lack of intelligence if the chimp were to assume that after it died, it's reflection would live on somewhere. Yet this is exactly what most humans do with "souls" and "spirits"; they personify their reflection in their own awareness with supernatural connections when in fact, it's merely an illusory by-product of it's material existence.
 
Celpha Fiael said:
You know I just thought of another interesting comparison. I read somewhere that a chimpanzee is the only animal besides us intelligent enough to recognize that the mirror shows a reflection of whatever is in front of it. In a research experiment, a chimp was shown itself in a mirror then a visually stimulating object was suspended above his head. He saw this in the mirror, and knowing it was his reflection, reached up for the object.
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Elephants do it also...
 
If God is omnipotent, there can't be much differentiation in God's eyes between an animal and a man. Both are just stupid clay vessels cooked up by God. So, if man has a soul, why not an animal? Jesus said God considers man worth much more than birds - but Jesus didn't say God considers birds worthless.
 
Celpha Fiael said:
That's a good point, but just because other animals are relatively intelligent compared to us, doesn't mean that they should be looked to for spirituality and mathematics. It's not that these animals aren't intellectually developed, but that they are simply not intellectually developed enough. Needless to say, if we were somehow able to inject a dolphin or monkey with some super-dose of intelligence, some form of spirituality and mathematics could be found.

If that seems too rhetorical, take a child for instance. It doesn't consider spirituality and mathematics until it is intellectually developed enough for it.
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Excellent point.
 
Celpha Fiael said:
You know I just thought of another interesting comparison. I read somewhere that a chimpanzee is the only animal besides us intelligent enough to recognize that the mirror shows a reflection of whatever is in front of it. In a research experiment, a chimp was shown itself in a mirror then a visually stimulating object was suspended above his head. He saw this in the mirror, and knowing it was his reflection, reached up for the object.

I think most would agree that it would have shown a significant lack of intelligence if the chimp were to assume that after it died, it's reflection would live on somewhere. Yet this is exactly what most humans do with "souls" and "spirits"; they personify their reflection in their own awareness with supernatural connections when in fact, it's merely an illusory by-product of it's material existence.
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Dolphins also recongnize the purpose of a mirror. Besides they can see reflects on the otherside of the water and remain unspooked by them.

However God and spirit is not some confluences of an encounter with a mirror.
 
Saquist said:
Dolphins also recongnize the purpose of a mirror. Besides they can see reflects on the otherside of the water and remain unspooked by them.

However God and spirit is not some confluences of an encounter with a mirror.
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Well I may have been a bit behind on my research saying it was just chimps, but I think the point I was trying to make remains.

So now, I guess it's your opinion against mine except that I have provided a practical and logically sound theory for why the concept of "spirit" exists while your argument lies hollow and magically suspended in mid-air.

(To explicate further, the mirror was used as a metaphor.)
 
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If you cannot sin because you're not a Christian and have no concept of sin, then wouldn't it be better to remain a non-Christian? Of course, I think the Christians would have a problem with this argument and would say that non-Christians can sin.
 
John J. Bannan said:
If you cannot sin because you're not a Christian and have no concept of sin, then wouldn't it be better to remain a non-Christian? Of course, I think the Christians would have a problem with this argument and would say that non-Christians can sin.
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Yes, it would be. Unfortunately, many people are duped into adopting (perhaps too generous of a verb...I think "infecting themselves with" would be more apropos) others' definitions, sin being a prime example. The virus spreads it's course until it is so prevalent in the mind of the injected, they forget that these definitions weren't theirs to begin with.
 
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animals can't sin because they don't know what are the right things to do..they are just doing everything for survival...unlike humans, humans know what's right and wrong and when we choose what's wrong, then, we sin...
 
Orleander said:
same as infants, some mentally handicapped, and some mentally ill??
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But they're still sins, aren't they? I mean, just because you don't know that something is a sin, if you do those things, aren't they still sins?

Or is ignorance of the "sin" a good excuse?

Baron Max
 
Or is ignorance of the "sin" a good excuse?
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In the instance of gods and religions? Certainly.

How many of you for instance knew that it is a sin to wear clothing of two different types of material?

I would have thought very few.. and now what we have are all these people damned for eternity because they wore clothing that god is unhappy with.

In this instance ignorance has to be an excuse. If it isn't.. fine, but then I would personally suggest a more human system of punishment, (i.e Ted Bundy gets a worse sentence than the dude that forgot to pay his TV license). There is no such thing as far as religion is concerned. You burn for any crime, and how many of us knew not to wear clothing of two types of material?

Or.... and I can only wonder at how many will burn in flame for it, but... did you know it's a sin to eat shellfish? My mother, nice old woman that she is, is going to burn for eternity because she ate mussels. She never knew... is her ignorance a good enough excuse? If not, the guy in charge is an asshole.
 
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