Are Christians nihilists?

M

MysteriousStranger

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Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical position that values do not exist but rather are falsely invented.
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Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life[2] is without meaning, purpose or intrinsic value.
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Christianity states that all is created by God. If we are God's creations then what value do we have?

Christianity also asserts that life is a filtration process in which humans are separated into to categories of "good" and "bad" in which the "good" go to heaven and the "bad" go to hell. If our ultimate purpose is to go to "heaven" or "hell" then what purpose do we have at all? If a chicken crosses the road and it's only reason for doing so is "to get to the other side" did the crossing of the road have any meaning? And if the chicken's only purpose in life is to cross the road does the chicken's life have any value?

Christianity consistently de-values life by describing it as the conveyor belt to the next one. They are dissatisfied with this life so they create a perfect one in their imaginations that they promise to each other granted that they don't "sin" i.e. make one and other unhappy in this life.


In this sense, it is the philosophical equivalent to the Russian political movement: the leap beyond scepticism — the desire to destroy meaning, knowledge, and value. To Nietzsche, it was irrational because the human soul thrives on value. Nihilism, then, was in a sense like suicide and mass murder all at once. He considered faith in the categories of reason, seeking either to overcome or ignore nature, to be the cause of such nihilism. "We have measured the value of the world according to categories that refer to a purely fictitious world".[20] He saw this philosophy as present in Christianity (which he described as 'slave morality'), Buddhism, morality, asceticism and any excessively skeptical philosophy.
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all quotations taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
 
Because the categories of reason are based on evidence of real perception?
 
S.A.M. said:
Because the categories of reason are based on evidence of real perception?
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No, because such nihilism does not have to be caused by 'seeking either to overcome or ignore nature'.

Edit: I don't even see how the two could be connected.
 
I believe the text that Enmos quoted:

He considered faith in the categories of reason, seeking either to overcome or ignore nature, to be the cause of such nihilism.
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Means that to put "faith" within "the categories of reason" leads to nihilism. I presume that by this it is meant that if your philosophy is based on faith then your philosophy amounts to nihilism because:

We have measured the value of the world according to categories that refer to a purely fictitious world
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MysteriousStranger said:
Means that to put "faith" within "the categories of reason" leads to nihilism.
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What does it mean to put "faith" within "the categories of reason" ?

MysteriousStranger said:
I presume that by this it is meant that if your philosophy is based on faith then your philosophy amounts to nihilism because:
We have measured the value of the world according to categories that refer to a purely fictitious world
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I don't get this reasoning. Of course the world doesn't have intrinsic value :shrug:
 
Yes, in fact Nietzsche argued that this is the fate of all "other-worldly dreaming" religions - to become nihilistic in their teaching. The christian message: This life is meaningless, live like a monk, keep an eye on the prize.

When that prize is revealed to be false, he argued mass nihilism would occur. Some time after he was called a nihilist by christian based/handicapped philosophers.
 
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MysteriousStranger said:
I think: "to use faith as reason", e.g. "you should not do that because God says it is wrong."
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Thanks, but I'm still confused.
I don't see how faith leads to denial of intrinsic value, and certainly not exclusively.
Anyone with half a brain knows that value is purely subjective. It's just common sense.
I don't know if you know me a bit, but if you do you can see that the part I quoted earlier is flawed ;)
 
Enmos said:
What does it mean to put "faith" within "the categories of reason" ?
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What is the basis for believing that your reason is better than someone else's belief? Its basically the belief you have in your reason.
 
S.A.M. said:
What is the basis for believing that your reason is better than someone else's belief? Its basically the belief you have in your reason.
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Reason is always better than belief.
You and MysteriousStranger both seem to have different takes on the meaning of that phrase though..
You say that it means: "To have faith in your reasoning".
MysteriousStranger says that it means: "to include faith into the categories of reason, as if it's reason".

Perhaps I got either of you, or both, wrong. If so, please explain further :)
 
Enmos said:
I don't see how faith leads to denial of intrinsic value, and certainly not exclusively.
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I think this explains it:

We have measured the value of the world according to categories that refer to a purely fictitious world
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In other words, a "fictitious ("made-up") world" is substituted for the actual world from the stand-point of faith when judging it's worth.

So that the people with faith create a world that is composed of both the natural and the super-natural.

This basically means that the actual world is destroyed in favour of a new "fictitious world". Then the value of the world is calculated by obeserving only the fictitious one.

So the actual world is deprived of value.
 
MysteriousStranger said:
I think this explains it:



In other words, a "fictitious ("made-up") world" is substituted for the actual world from the stand-point of faith when judging it's worth.

So that the people with faith create a world that is composed of both the natural and the super-natural.

This basically means that the actual world is destroyed in favour of a new "fictitious world". Then the value of the world is calculated by obeserving only the fictitious one.

So the actual world is deprived of value.
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But don't we all do that ? It's just that some (possibly most) are stuck there.
 
Enmos said:
You say that it means: "To have faith in your reasoning".
MysteriousStranger says that it means: "to include faith into the categories of reason, as if it's reason".
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I think these amount to the same thing as including faith in your reasoning is to act as if it is reason.
 
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