Amor Fati: What is that?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by invert_nexus, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    Well I'm not going to write a book (even in my own words), It's a forum, one I am hardly ever even listened to, mostly mocked...what do you expect here Invert? You aren't gonna get a lot of effort.

    To me, it's just one piece of ammo in the Nietzsche arsenal to cope with the tough truth of the universe:

    It's huge. It's probably mostly "dead". We all really don't matter, possibly will never matter. Not even the really smart assholes on this site with lots and lots of credit. There is a chance we might not all matter in as little time as a few months. Or...we might go farther, a little or a lot. Perhaps a slim chance of inflicting life on the rest of the universe (or merging with what exists already - ala Will to Power).

    If you die tomorrow you make room for someone else, if you prosper and influence many it is probably for the better, perhaps better after being worse. It doesn't matter. If we don't exist in a million years, someone else might...or might not. It doesn't matter, what matters is you are living now and you might as well enjoy it, even if you shit your pants everyday and talk like some shitty 80s computer by twitching your lip.

    Like I said it's actually a really tough concept to live by, because as others said we all think we are so important, that humanity is important, the Earth is important. Every discovery points to the opposite. The Earth is not the center of the universe, we are not all that great, we really don't know much at all.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
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  3. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    SOoo true...

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    _Oh, you who read some song that I have sung_,
    _What know you of the soul from whence it sprung_?
    _Dost dream the poet ever speaks aloud_
    _His secret thought unto the listening crowd_?
    _Go take the murmuring sea-shell from the shore_:
    _You have its shape, its color and no more_.
    _It tells not one of those vast mysteries_
    _That lie beneath the surface of the seas_.
    _Our songs are shells, cast out by-waves of thought_;
    _Here, take them at your pleasure; but think not_
    _You've seen beneath the surface of the waves_,
    _Where lie our shipwrecks and our coral caves_.

    Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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  5. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    that was great.


    god is dead. what of that statement?

    when was it said?

    in the midst of all he speaks highly of himself but quotes "Buddah",
    quotes BUDDAH and speaks of understanding.

    "my eyes flip open to not the page but a page that states Buddhism"(92 geneology of morals)

    then (249)"Positive and negative- This thinker needs nobody to refute him: for that he suffices himself"

    "/incense/.---Buddah said: do not flatter your benefactor... right away clears the air..."(142) (seventy five aphorisms)
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  7. keith1 Guest

    So enthralled with that strap-on stick.
    I've been busy. Tell penner not to sell my logname just yet.
  8. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    Ah! Then strength is a fabricated extension? 6’4" and yet wielding a claymore and a shield.
    Honesty is razor sharp, but subtlety softens the edges, wouldn’t you agree? Tissue? :truce:
    See you in the funny papers, dear. :mufc:
  9. Liebling Doesn't Need to be Spoonfed. Valued Senior Member

    I think that for Nietzsche, fate was more closely defined as the acceptance of necessity, rather than some mystical destiny. For Nietzsche, necessity doesn't quite have the same interpretation that it does for most of us and that's where people get confused as to what he was referring to and hence why it's one of his most debated assertions. For most people, Fate itself is destiny. Something to be arrived at. Not so for Nietzsche.

    In Nietzsche's ontology, nothing ever comes to an end so fate as most would describe it is a misnomer. It's misunderstood. For Nietzsche, the realities and processes of the universe are never ceasing so "fate" as he would use it has no determinism. No finality, no promise. We must consider Nietzsche's own understanding of reality to better understand the concept as a whole. For him, it gave weight and bredth to the concepts of the infinite as life affirming and it moves it out of the realm that is defined by our humanism and into a realm of freedom from definition by metaphysics. But in that, it also brings it back full circle to the concepts of both perception and reality because in that pool of being that is infinite and never ending, where we are only tiny specs of light to be percieved by others fleetingly or not at all, we are still going absolutely nowhere.

    The ideal 'Amor Fati' would leave Nietzsche free from authority, guilt, moral imperative or absolute responsibility. It would allow him to act without bounds, to Become who he wishes to be without the contraints of humanism. It moves us beyond the dualism of immanence and transcendence into that incessant universe that holds him to no bounds. That truly, the idea is to shed the concept of should and any percieveable goal to be launched into a world of "Becoming". That to do this, you have to let go entirely the concept of "being" at all.

    I think we have trouble understanding this concept because it is in human nature to form meaning. To be meaningful. To truly believe that we have impact and effect on other beings. For our ego, it is an important to maintain our sense of importance, individuality and significance. That there is importance to anything at all, and that all of our "shoulds" somehow unite us to the human race. Nietzsche's Amor Fati attempts to stop the concept of self and give birth to becoming. That because the world is ultimately malleable and ever changing into an infinite existence, it makes accepting what "is" simpler because it frees whatever "is" from purpose, goal or human authority. It is the rebirth of the infinite in each moment. It is wonderlust of ultimate freedom.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  10. Gustav Banned Banned

    good god
    who are you!


    and what is this keith fella to you?

  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    i'm with you up to the point of moving "beyond the dualism of immanence and transcendence." for nietzsche, this was certainly the intent, but as heidegger, derrida, have pointed out, he merely presents us with an inversion of the "traditional" metaphysical thinking of his day.

    still, i think that understanding amor fati for nietzsche necessarily entails an understanding of the concept of eternal recurrence (as you've noted), as well as nietzsche's unique conception of will. given that there are some 50-odd (or 46--i can't locate my concordance) references to meister eckhart scattered throughout the entirety of nietzsche's writings, i think this bears a stronger resemblance to eckhart's conception--as expressed in his articulation of gelassenheit and abgescheidenheit--than n.'s earliest interpreters (including kaufmann) were willing, or able, to concede.

    animals see the open, with their whole eyes,
    but our eyes, turn back upon themselves,
    encircle and seek to snare the world
  12. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    Being, becoming, such weighted words whos meaning can only be applied to those of which hold the power themselves to understand Neitzsche to his fullest extent. In his place and at his time he would have been considered INSANE in his day to challenge god who IS NOT ALIVE. WE are ALIVE.

    God is dead is the best lie I have ever heard a man say. It is no lie but in its simplicity its illusion strikes "fear" into those without the will to power it understanding. If we use a little "common sense" we can see his true message in what he implies at HEART behind all his words.

    God must be ALIVE.

    why am I so wise?

    because I understand how a choice of words and good timing leads to multiple levels of meaning to an individual. To which with great power we control as a whole we are uncertain as to how "exacly" words can appear to the mind of another in the future, but we know when is the right and wrong place for words. And we know someone in the future will pick up where great men of the past left off to bring peace to the minds who are able to UNDERSTAND what the meaning of the greater good means NOW, in the past and could mean in the Future.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  13. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    All great works are borrowed gowns of knowledge that fit everyone different. Hmm…being and becoming, are they viewed as a conflict? Must we sacrafice one for the other? Always entangling the past, present, and future to define a true tomorrow, but becoming is just the happening of events. Everyone struggles with the concept of “now”, but time does tick, and there is an order. We are dependent on the perception of the world. We gather information from external stimuli to form an explanation, which allows us to understand ourselves, and our surroundings. Are we ever truly free from authority, guilt, moral, or absolute responsibility? We are curious by nature and struggling to form a meaning to understand reality. There’s no escape from the world’s view, other than madness...the wonderlust of Nietzche’s ultimate freedom, which in the end… he achieved.

    A Borrowed Gown
    As I drifted off, I felt his breath then his wing as brushed against my skin…
    I could hear the familiar music as I dared to dance with the truth, yet again…
    You are unremarkable, my dear, he whispers into my ear…
    All in vain, he adds, as twirls in my essence, empty he utters,
    as he pulls me close and peers deep into my soul…
    I could feel the suffocating lump as I chocked down his bitter words…
    I was stripped with understanding, left vulnerable and ashamed…
    I consumed his speech, each mouthful filled with sorrow…
    All must pass, grieve not the truth…
    The verve is stifled by the flames of egos and guarded with razor sharp tongues…
    Two into one, then into two again, to use then to be used…
    The light bounced back to reveal my worn, torn, borrowed gown, stained of both water and blood…
    I marveled at the decaying fabric too old to mend…
    I envisioned a new gown, sparkling white, and with elegant details…
    The music now muffled by the sound of clicking heels…
    I paused to hear the rhythm of the music to dance in step with the truth…
    There was only a faint echo to grasp the depth and the rhythm…
    I reached for his hand only to discover I was alone...
    I awoke to sound of the serpent’s hiss as I consciously turn off the alarm…
    It was only a dream, he assures me, as he coils around my body, and draws together my denial…
    Constricting, yet consoling as he squeezes my accomplishments to the surface…
    He whispers, don’t be afraid, drink their wine, and truth shall come again…
    My pride is strong enough to stand against envy before my feet touch the ground…
    And I dance off into a new day…
    (One superficial BITCH!:mufc

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  14. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    does this mean I recieve a positive in your eyes???

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  15. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    Sure, why not...I'm know.

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  16. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    Im still not giving up totally on the planet idea

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    "Laughter means: being schadenfroh, but with a good conscious"(200)

    Schadenfroh- signifies taking a mischievous delight in the discomfort of another.

    In this sense i hope we can both laugh for I knew not what I said back then, but it is becoming more clear to me now.

    and I greatly appreciate your kind words
  17. Ripley Valued Senior Member

    One needs, I think, to translate at times a perception from another era to suit the current one. So in this day and age, I would understand Nietzsche's Amor Fati as positive bleeding with synchronous healing—one's final playing card and golden bullet against one's adversary.
  18. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    ...Ones final gift through time.

    full understanding.

    in this day and at this time a new era is forming.

    let the power of the Anti-christ, Zarathustra, the Ubermensch, DARE I say GOD!!!!

    Open the "evils" from within, so the healing may begin.

    To rewrite history as a story within a story to allow the flow of knowledge down the tree of YGGDRASIL... the tree of life.. the tree of knowledge.

    To live away from fear for in empathy there is only joy.

    the apple does not fall far from the tree, Our tree will spread its life through the use of free hands and small fingers.

    "Schreibkugel ist ein Ding gleich mir: von Eisen
    Und doch leicht zu verdrehn zumal auf Reisen.
    Geduld und Takt muss reichlich man besitzen
    Und feine Fingerchen, uns zu benuetzen.
    Or in English:
    The Writing Ball is a thing like me: of iron
    Yet twisted easily – especially on journeys.
    Patience and tact must be had in abundance
    As well as fine [little] fingers to use us."

    FOR we have the tools not to manifest destiny but for destiny to man itself.

    one does not challenge a great adversary without AMOR fati.
  19. keith1 Guest

    I'll return with grainyola.
  20. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    Are you sure you can find your way back? It’s deeeeep in here…
    Maybe I’ll stick around a little longer just to see if the OCD above you does the three times thingy.
    That could come in handy…:shake:
  21. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

    Mod Note,

    ...annyways.. back to the topic...

  22. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    influences... influences.. influences. I ponder the use of this word on multiple levels of the word itself. what influence? where?

    to what cause to what effect

    It is the power of the influences Neitzsche had a strong mind over. The power of influences that great men decide in choice. I can not and WILL not explain The Power of Influences. It is a journey into the soul one has to challenge for themselves.

    It is the power of influences that one surrounds themselves by that will take them to the next place in life. it is the power of the past influences that dilates our fears for the future. Neitzsche feared for the future If some of his ideas were taken too extremely. He knew the psychological power of his words seeing as God's words in his time were misconstrued.

    The Sad Betrayal

    I genuinely feel for the man. I share Empathy with him. Through mental illness and torture he suffered, Writing the only true form of joy in his time. To share Empathy for the dead is that an impossible idea when the man born 100 years before my time (10-4-1989) leads me to write myselfe. When I discover that the day he died was today as I write about "FATE". Is that not in itself a form of destiny I ask? I do not plead for a resolute answer but an arrow in the right direction will point me to where I beg to go.

    I say happy birthday Neitzsche, for his fate did not allow him to see this day. and as I wrote today I realize we are one. Unplanned coincidence has lead me here on this day to speak words he could not speak.

    I have my writing currently on a laptop, left out of my reach for latter told circumstances in reference to my commitment of mental illness. I have cleared myself of my own confusion.

    -Mens sana in corpore sano

    If my Macbook holds words of insanity, I will do as lady Macbeth and scream "out Spot Out!!" and only time can tell the rest.

    It is the power of our better influences in life that take us to our highest place. To clear up sum insanity is my mission in life.

    afterthought..... didn't see the three times thingy part. was that for me?
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  23. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    He died today. Today was not his birthday. Maybe you should stick with Bertrand Russell or Dan Dennett. Be careful because coincidences are just that, coincidences. The unknown is simply the unknown. If you try to connect too many dots you’ll have the perception that irrelevant, unrelated phenomena in the world refer to you directly or have special personal significance. You’ll slip into a delusion of reference. The universe does not refer to us...but this time you were correct.
    I was referring to you with the three times thingy…

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    The two [n’s] can stay but that has got to go…along with me. I hate philosophy. that’s where the action is…:mufc:

    P.S. Shhh…you don’t want to get banned again, now do you?
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010

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