Amor Fati: What is that?

And when I read this, in my mind, it's just another form of that characteristic New Age saying "Just be!"
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Ah, understood.

My point was that a "New Ager' has violated the practice of embracing whatever morsels of fate that life happens to spew on a platter.

His response to life was not an embrace of its meaninglessness or stupidity, but a a rebellion in the convoluted guise of "New Age".

I see your point. You see mine?

Sure. Unless the term itself is self-referential.
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And if two people embrace the same thing, can they not speak about their respective "solipsisms"?

You act as though its recursive nature makes it incommunicable and that's false.
I cannot, however, communicate the 'qualia' of any one thing to anyone-- experience of any one thing is wholly private with the precise textures of its sensations impossible to capture in language or communicable thought.

The practice of "amor fati", however, is as easy to communicate with anyone as describing how you derived such and such function or how you slip off a thong before bathing.

I'll talk about your decision to embrace fate - and you will hit me back saying I am wrong.
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And if I agree with the concept?
 
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gendanken said:
Geoff:

A so called "masochist" would welcome the pain as easily as he would salute its departure.

In other words, your 'masochist' example would evaluate the absence or presence of pain the same way, given the practice of 'amor fati'.

Therefore, popping a thorazine is not it.
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It frigging is, especially if you're a pessimist. If it's all glorious life experience, then it's all glorious life experience. Always the same 'happy high' about whatever you run into; if you're constanly happy, then you're constantly happy. You don't get more happy about it, so it's like a pharmacological crutch. Seneca would have had him quietly poisoned. I know he would.
 
Geoffp:
Always the same 'happy high' about whatever you run into; if you're constanly happy, then you're constantly happy. You don't get more happy about it, so it's like a pharmacological crutch.
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You've just described this laughing idiot

I don't see Neitzche's concept of 'looking away'-- in other words, neither negating nor affirming in the sterility of acceptance--resulting in a glib moron laughing his ass off to America's Funniest Home Videos.
 
gendanken said:
And if two people embrace the same thing, can they not speak about their respective "solipsisms"?
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That is a contradiction in terms.


You act as though its recursive nature makes it incommunicable and that's false.

I cannot, however, communicate the 'qualia' of any one thing to anyone-- experience of any one thing is wholly private with the precise textures of its sensations impossible to capture in language or communicable thought.

The practice of "amor fati", however, is as easy to communicate with anyone as describing how you derived such and such function or how you slip off a thong before bathing.
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You seem to think that Nietzsche's philosophy is, at its core, egalitarian, democratic, compassionate, do-no-harm to anyone, people-are-actually-good-at-heart, even though it is so critical and separatist as far as its immediate wording goes.

I take it at face value as I see it. No, I will not let anyone try to punish me into becoming a better person and I do not believe in self-flagellation.

IOW, Nietzsche is for teenagers. :p


And if I agree with the concept?
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Then we'll get bored soon. ;)
 
That is a contradiction in terms.
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And trying to reason with your typical male pigheadedness is a contradicktion in sperms.

So, like, whatever.

You seem to think that Nietzsche's philosophy is, at its core, egalitarian, democratic, compassionate, do-no-harm to anyone, people-are-actually-good-at-heart, even though it is so critical and separatist as far as its immediate wording goes.
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And you seem to skirt that tired regurgitation that its nihilistic, nationalistic and vile.
Nes pas?

That said-- where do you get that above slop from anything I've said in here? You don't-- but you need it to perpetuate whatever idea of me you need for your cheeky monologue.

IOW, Nietzsche is for teenagers.
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Quoting Nietzsche is for teenagers.

I'm bored now-- rip off some underwear.
 
gendanken said:
Geoffp:


You've just described this laughing idiot
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Tsk. Meanie.

I don't see Neitzche's concept of 'looking away'-- in other words, neither negating nor affirming in the sterility of acceptance--resulting in a glib moron laughing his ass off to America's Funniest Home Videos.
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I disagree that it's about 'looking away': wouldn't that be refuto fati or the like? Isn't it above acceptance, but rather adoration of one's fate?
 
gendanken said:
That said-- where do you get that above slop from anything I've said in here?
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From the fact that you talk about this "amor fati" to begin with. Reflexive criticism.

I have an avid distaste for anything that smacks of determinism/fatalism, and I, indeed, indulge in beating it up. It makes me feel all powerful and stuff.


You don't-- but you need it to perpetuate whatever idea of me you need for your cheeky monologue.
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Oh, sweetcheeks, not so fast. I can be really nice too. :eek:
 
unfuckingbelievable. isn't anyone gonna take the bait?

invert_nexus said:
...My understanding of what it means is derived solely from my reading of Nietzsche and has only been validated from lectures and readings on the interpretation of Nietsche.

I'll post tomorroww what he really means.
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(emphasis mine.)

and from one whose avatar is coffin joe, no less.
 
invert_nexus said:
Glaucon,

Instead of literal, how about actual? I'd be surprised if you, of all people, didn't know what Nietzsche was saying.
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Hey invert,

Oooh.. I wouldn't want to ruin a potentially interesting thread by saying too much. I wasn't going to post at all to tell the truth, but couldn't resist.
I'm sure you're headed somewhere with this; I just wanted to sit and see how it goes for a bit.

I must admit though.. I am curious about the "actual" distinction....
 
Mod Note,

Now, I recognize that Nietzsche is pertinent to the topic at hand, so there's bound to be some harsh words tossed about, but let's all tone the mud-slinging down a bit please?
TY

 
I don’t get it. What’s the bait? What else could it mean, other than we suppress our natural love of fate? Doesn’t it just imply that our moral ideals cause us to deny, and to view fate as a form of suppression, which we blindly try to break free from, but we should instead embrace our love of fate, as our mere existence itself is fate? :shrug:
 
Unfortunately, don't have adequate time today to make an acceptable post. Perhaps tomorrow.

Suffice it to say, at present, that I'm disappointed in the views presented thus far. I'm beginning to think that people steer clear of Nietzsche as he's too popular a philosopher. A shame, really. That leaves you with only the stereotypical popular beliefs about Nietzsche which you were trying to avoid to begin with.
One shouldn't be afraid to sample things. Even popular things. Unless you're weak, it won't leave a stain.

Anyway, Nietzschefan was close but only grazed the surface. Trooper here touches on it, but has some confusing language about 'natural love of fate.' And also fails to touch anything deeply meant.

It's surprising, really. As it's really an intuitive concept.

I'm worried that I'm going to have to dig out my copies of Nietzsche's works. It's been too long since I've read them to adequately defend my stance from memory. Do you realize how many books I have piled on top of Nietzsche? Gods.
Also, how the hell am I going to find time to go through it?

I hate you all.


Glaucon,

I'm sure you're headed somewhere with this; I just wanted to sit and see how it goes for a bit.
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Not really headed anywhere other than the opening question. Was having a discussion with Gendanken about what Nietzsche meant by Amor Fati and we're completely at odds with each other about it. I believe that, like your first post, she took aphorism 276 too literally.

A clue to my coming post, by the way, it would seem that she failed to take aphorism 277 into account.
But, I'll need more than that.

Oh, yes.
 
invert_nexus said:
I'm worried that I'm going to have to dig out my copies of Nietzsche's works. It's been too long since I've read them to adequately defend my stance from memory. Do you realize how many books I have piled on top of Nietzsche? Gods.
Also, how the hell am I going to find time to go through it?
I hate you all.
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Interesting retreat posture, since it is your OP.

I haven't read Nietzsche in years. Did a cursory web search:

(search: "Nietzsche insane")

next.
 
invert_nexus said:
Quick question.

Define, in your own words, what Nietzsche meant by "Amor Fati."
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Amor Fati best describes my overall attitude sans the "destiny" bullshit.

As non-cheesy as I can make this sound, I'm as proud of the horrible things that have happened to me as I am of the successes. I wouldn't be me without them. I hold the losses and pains as close to my heart as I do the wins and joys.

~String
 
Gustav said:
indeed
superficial bastards! :D
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First of all, you can refer to me as a shallow bitсh, not a baѕtard. :D

What I meant by natural love was what we naturally know. We know we exist, and by adding to this, we forget that this is the only thing to appreciate. We search in vain for a meaning or purpose. When it is staring us in the face, yet we deny it. The only necessity is that which we create. The only purpose that we can chose is to continue, for life itself to continue.

The love of fate is when you know. When you know that there is nothing. No outside influence of what should be, only what is. No right or wrong, only what is. Then you are free. Free to love your fate. Free to see and create the beauty that you desire. We all desire what is natural to sustain our existence. We cannot exist alone. We need each other and everything that was created to survive.

We blindly seek importance, a meaning, a goal, which leads us away from what we are. Once we realize that these expectations are of our own creation then we are free. Free to see the web like structure, and know what we are, and that we need each other. That is our fundamental desire to be united. We would die for this and we do. We are unique, not special, and free to create the beauty of our own perception. We are just a blink.

I don’t know. It’s just my perception of Nietzche’s ѕhit, and I admit that I’m one shallow bitсh, but I love my fate…:mufc:
 
"is Hamlet understood? no doubt, "certainly" is what drives one insane.(3) but one must be profound, an abyss, a philosopher to feel that way we are all "afraid" of truth" (ECCE HOMO)

3) muse of music. Billow (4) "Always conduct with the score in your head, not your head in the score"(4)

(5) "so many dangers that instinct comes too soon to "understand itself""(ECCE HOMO)

(6) "on the question of being understandable----- One does not only wish to be understood when one writes; One wishes just as surely to not to be understood... perhaps that was part of the authors intention- he did not "want" to be understood by just anybody."(9) (seventy five aphorisms)

(9)from the Fifth Book added (1887)

9-5??!!! damn i need a better job...

why yes I do believe he was considered insane in his day and age. I wish I knew german so I could more fully appreciate his words.

that is his overall goal. to be understood while not being understood.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~fnchron/1895.html

"however rewarding this task may have been, Steiner noted the tense atmosphere in the Archive and how difficult it was to work under Elisabeth:"

may I stress the word atmosphere. ?
 
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