Pre-determined Randomness.

only if the range of alternatives with in the selection is the same do we have cheese for cheese and chalk for chalk...

You want to compare a random number generator with only 2 alternatives with one that has 10 go right ahead... but it is fudge and you know it.. of course probability results are different when comparing two bases.
Set up a random number generator to result in 1's and 0's using a base of 10 and see what happens...[ no longer a random number generator is it...?]
and you want to be taken seriously?

also Pi is not a random number generator the digits only appear to be perfectly random if taken with out the innitial context of Pi.

 

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the point regarding spacial co-ordinates is simple
even if I use only one item say golf balls that are exactly the same [ which is of course impossible but let us assume we can perform this miracle]
and I spread them throughout every portion of space through out the universe they would all be different, simply because they are all in different places and locations.
Now a pixel is not golfball and is merely a point that is distinguishable by location in 4 dimensional space time from another, thus infinite in diversity just regarding location alone and not even considering substance.

 

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Not really, since you don't seem to get it.

For golf balls, yes.

Really? They'd be different golf balls, not the same golf ball in a different position?
So if I move from here to there I'm not me any more?

Location yes, you have yet to show that substance differs.
Location is a co-ordinate, not a property of the object (again: see the Wheeler/ Feynman thing on electrons).

And I note you're dropped the digits thing. Why is that?
Can't show that the "3"s are actually different?

 

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So your argument falls apart if I express pi in base two? Or if I declare 1/10 to be a probability?

The Arabs will be enchanted to learn that they established determinism in the universe by choosing base ten for their arithmetic, I have no doubt. Indeed Allah is great.

Not any more, I don't. The silly season is upon us, and I want to enjoy it.

The issue was whether a sequence of 100 of the numerals in its expression, apparently specifically the decimal representation, could be generated randomly - there was some confusion about how that sequence was to be selected in the first place, though, before the attempt to match it with a random number generator. So I chose my sequence of 100, and set up a random number generator that would reliably hit on that sequence within a reasonable length of time, most likely.

I haven't figured out exactly what you were driving at, though, by emphasizing the impossibility of matching long sequences of pi with randomly determined sequences of numerals. Any sequence of numerals - from pi, coin flips, radiation counters, any source - would be equally difficult to match with a random number generator not loaded via pre-selection. So?

 

correct. You are you in a different time and a different location and uniquely so as there is no absolute rest.

 

Which is NOT the same as me not being me.

Specious point. What does that have to do with anything?

 

fair question and point!
However if randomness is real then patterns with in a sequence must be available or possible at least.
a sequence of digits using base 10 for example must have the potential to develop randomly derived patterns. If that potential is not present then the random generator is no longer truely random.

Pi on the other hand displays no potential to produce random patterns which is one reason why it cannot be considered seriously as a truely random series of digits. [ regardless of the selection taken ]

However if taken with out knowledge of the innitial determination of Pi the digits can appear to be random until you realise that there is no potential for patterns to form and then suddenly you do not have a random series of digits but a predetermined set. That set has been determined NOT to have the potential to form patterns of any significance.

Therfore infinite diversity would be ultimately compromised if derived using random causation.
two pixels or points 5 light years apart could end up being the exact same pixel and given the nature of infinitey this would indeed be evident. but would have to defy all notions of 4 dimensional spacetime. [a real spacial cline bottle if you like and not just an imaginary one.]

 

seriously?
you really don't see how 0.5 of a second for example makes a difference even if you are standing still?

Do you think you are in some sort of suspended animation state that doesn't change with the passage of time? immortal are we? Don't grow old are we? at absolute rest are we?

Still sound specious?
You can apologise in a PM if you like! [chuckle]

 

That's true of any string of numerals.

No matter how generated or selected.

Pi is one number. It does not "produce" anything - it just sits there.

The numerals of pi might in fact be random in pattern. They cannot be generated by formula.

Gibberish.

 

What does that have to do with the lack of absolute rest?

I see you like to assume things I didn't say or imply.

Absolutely: YOU are the only one that raised the question of absolute rest at all, and it's irrelevant to whatever point (you think) you're making.

It's in the post. With the cheque.

 

to you...sure

 

ha this is a funny statement....
effectively: "the point I am making is irrelevant to the point I am making....hmmmm.."

as Ice Aura would say...Gibberish!

 

if you are not at absolute rest then you must be changing as time passes therefore every point in that time line is unique thus you are unique in every point along that time line as no point can be the same due to ..yep you guessed it...the change that has occurred from point to point.

another PM if you please!

 

Look you guys are both pretty smart guys. No doubt about it...so I am having difficulty understanding why you can't seem to see the easiest of points.

Trythis:
If you have an orange at 10am and wait untill 10am 24 hours later is it the same absolutely identical orange?

keep in mind that it is decomposing, changing color, and growing smaller as it dehydrates.

so simple a point yet you are for some reason having "apparent" difficulty comprehending it which is really puzzling and I would love to know why

Actually intuition is telling me you know the answer no problemo but you simply can't express it.

I've struck this on numerous occassions....and it's a bloody communications nightmare and if that isn't proof of psychic blocking I don't know what is.
Member Crunchy Cat should have a look at this as he is always asking for proof of psychic phenonema and I think your last few posts are proving ti quite well.

 

I see.
And you're still wrong. There's no need to bring the lack of absolute rest into it at all, since no one has claimed it's required and wouldn't apply to the vast majority of the universe even if there such a thing.
Absolute rest is to do with (lack of) motion. Does time still pass if there's no movement?

So the gold ball I had five seconds ago isn't the golf ball I have now?
The letter "n" on my keyboard isn't the one it was when I bought it?

 

Try this: is it the same orange?
How do we define "sameness"?
How many people say "I've got a different car now, because it's two years older than it was when I bought it in '08".

Which would also indicate your intuition is at fault.

Then keep looking because it certainly isn't "psychic blocking" (whatever that's supposed to be).

 

did I use the word sameness? if so where?
What words did I use? [regarding the orange]
Same Absolutely Identical

 

The orange is a construct. A construct that we observe without too much thought or interaction.

The orange as a construct will continue to exist until it expires or is eaten, however the manifestation of that construct for the duration is forever macroscopically changing (I do mean macro in this instance) It still maintains it's construct appearance but subatomically it's very makeup is shifting in and out of existance in more than one space at the same time. It's also hypothetically having particles swap between universes, making the orange technically not the same at any given two instances.

 

maybe you can tell me what key words I used regarding the orange in the post because I don't think Dywyddyr can.
You obviously understand what I was trying to say though and thanks...
...24 hours later is it the.......?same absolutely identical orange

 

hopefully the problem will sort out by morning...back in 8 hours or so...