Page 17 of 22 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516171819202122 LastLast
Results 321 to 340 of 428

Thread: LHC Safety and the Law

  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenner View Post
    • Contrasting to "standard science is not speculative" we may turn to an actual scientist, Albert Einstein (1879-1955, winner of the 1921 Nobel Physics Prize "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect" and not specifically the Special Theory of Relativity or the General Theory of Relativity and certainly not for predicting or describing properties of black hole or of quarks, or strange quarks, or hyperons, or strange matter, or strangelets) who wrote a warning to those who resist paradigm shifts in science:
      Quote Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
      Yet every theory is speculative. When the basic concepts of a theory are comparatively “close to experience” (e.g., the concepts of force, pressure, mass), its speculative character is not so easily discernible. If, however, a theory is such as to require the application of complicated logical processes in order to reach conclusions from the premises that can be confronted with observation, everybody becomes conscious of the speculative nature of the theory. In such a case, an almost irresistible feeling of aversion arises in people who are inexperienced in epistemological analysis and who are unaware of the precarious nature of theoretical thinking in those fields with which they are familiar.
      Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions (1954, 1962 edition) pp. 349-350. So Sancho has misunderstood and misquoted Einstein from the beginning of this case.

    Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions (1954, 1982) Three Rivers Press, New York. p. 349. ISBN 0-517-88440-2 14th Printing.
    (Which I have)
    Reprinted from
    Albert Einstein, "On the Generalized Theory of Gravitation" Scientific American, 182 4 (April, 1950) pp. 13-18
    (Which I have not seen yet)

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Indeed, since the appellate tribunal Panel’s ruling took place, plaintiffs have received internal documents from CERN's servers which prove CERN has lied repeatedly to the public, by stating that:
    -“Strangelets will not happen at the LHC”,
    “the experiments taking place at the LHC are safe because they happen constantly in the Universe.”
    [[CERN states in 'The Safety of the LHC' at that: “The LHC, like other particle accelerators, recreates the natural phenomena of cosmic rays under controlled laboratory collisions, enabling them to be studied in more detail.” Thus, it affirms those experiments are safe because “Over the past billions of years, Nature has already generated on Earth as many [cosmic rays] collisions as about a million LHC experiments -- and the planet still exists.” Yet exhibit B shows that the 'serious' internal reports of the CERN Company expect events never found in cosmic rays in the Lead on Lead atomic collisions starting potentially as early as this November, 2010. Regarding Strangelets in the same page on 'The Safety of the LHC' CERN states flatly that “Strangelets cannot be produced” contradicting its own conferences for 'specialists' on the CASTOR Detector that will search for them (Exhibit A and C).]]
    • The criteria for introducing new evidence at the appelate stage is that it be new evidence. Here, all we have is a laziness (intellectual and otherwise) of the plaintiffs to look through the public documents at CERN.
    • How have plaintiffs recieved internal documents? Are these secret documents, or just public documents on the storage server? Are they the opinion and policy of CERN or a handful of researchers who just work for CERN? Where is the authorization in the Federal Rules of Evidence for these documents to be introduced? Where are these documents identified?
    • The criteria for saying an organization acted like a person is to show that the management of that organization moved as if one person. That people at CERN tell different stories is no surprise -- there is no thought police in science. It is far from clear that quote-mined excerpts from a decade of writings of hundreds of researchers in strained, and sometimes wholly artificial, readings appearing to conflict is evidence that "CERN has lied".
    • No source is cited for the quote “Strangelets will not happen at the LHC” -- The actual consensus position of CERN was entered into evidence by the US Government (not CERN) and is given in the 2008 LSAG-Report, section 5, backed by references of scientific observation and reasoning [11-21]. It is not a bare authorative claim. The document also gives a far better attempt to state what they mean by "strangelet" than the author of this paragraph.
      [11] H. Takahashi et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 87, 212502 (2001) and Nucl. Phys. A721, 951c (2003).
      [12] It has been speculated that if an unknown mechanism exists that could transport strangelets produced by an accelerator to the interior of the Sun, then positively-charged strangelets might also grow inside the Sun: A. Kent, hep-ph/0009130v2.
      [13] X.J. Wen, Int. J. Mod. Phys. A22, 1649 (2007), also available as arXiv:hep-ph/0612253.
      [14] Haidong Liu, Int. J. Mod. Phys. E16, 3280 (2008).
      [15] LSAG (J. Ellis, G. Giudice, M. Mangano, I. Tkachev and U. Wiedemann), Review of the Safety of LHC Collisions: Addendum on Strangelets, .
      [16] B.I. Abelev et al. [STAR Collaboration], Phys. Rev. C76, 011901 (2007).
      [17] SLIM Collaboration, S. Cecchini et al., arXiv:0805.1797.
      [18] J. Madsen, astro-ph/0612740.
      [19] C. Greiner, P. Koch and H. Stoecker, Phys. Rev. Lett. 58, 1825 (1987).
      [20] The RHIC White Papers, Nucl. Phys. A757, 1 (2005).
      [21] A. Dar, A. De Rujula, U. Heinz, Phys. Lett. B470, 142 (1999).
    • Reference [15] also expands on the theme with
      We note that the above is an estimate for the thermal production of a normal A = 10 nucleus from a hadron gas of temperature T = 165 MeV. The production of normal nuclear matter provides an extremely conservative upper bound on the production of strange quark matter. For this reason, we find that the significant empirical support for thermal particle production in heavy ion collisions, which was substantiated further by RHIC data in recent years, strengthens the main conclusion of the 2003 report [2]. There is no basis for any conceivable threat from strangelet production at the LHC.
    • The alleged quotes about the existing cosmic ray collisions in the Universe is not well-sourced, and conflicts in fact with paragraph 2 of section 2 of the 2008 LSAG-Report, which also cites cosmic rays 1000 times more energetic that the protons which would recreate proton-proton collisions, ends with "This means [6] that Nature has already conducted the equivalent of about a hundred thousand LHC experimental programmes on Earth already – and the planet still exists." and paragraph 3 ends with "The surface area of the Sun is therefore 10,000 times that of the Earth, and Nature has therefore already conducted the LHC experimental programme about one billion times [6] via the collisions of cosmic rays with the Sun – and the Sun still exists." and so the claim of "millions" is not supported by the documents.
    • So with Einstein or with CERN, this Sanchovian author cannot be trusted to quote reliably and cite with specificity.
    • It is unclear why 'serious' has quotes about it.

    --- Break for Exhibits ---
    Preamble to Exhibit A:
    Exhibit A
    The CASTOR Project, acronym for CCentauro and Strangelet Object Research, was installed by CERN at the CMS experiment. CERN therefore expects to find strangelets in the Lead on Lead atomic collisions, starting possibly as early as this November, 2010, despite its public statements and the statements in court of the Amici Curiae, who denied such possibility as 'very unlikely'. The top of Exhibit A is the internet address for CASTOR posted above. Below a CASTOR picture is also found there. Exhibit C is found on the right side list on 'presentations' -> 'conferences' -> 'P. Katsas, Strangelet hunt at CMS'. In many documents on those pages the scientists of Team CASTOR state that Strangelets will be produced, 'likely' with a probability between 65% and 70% of detection.
    • So what is this? Opinion testimony from non-experts? That's not admissible under the rules of evidence.

    Exhibit A: This Page with the URL added and an uncited picture of the CMS on top. (No True Copy!)

    Preamble to Exhibit B:
    Exhibit B
    Exhibit B shows the duplicity of CERN, which affirms in internal documents that the Pb-Pb collision “events can be expected to show exotic phenomena [strangelets] that is beyond the reach of cosmic rays” (underlining added for emphasis)
    • It's not an internal document if these guys found it.
    • beyond the reach of cosmic rays may refer to experimental observations, in which case they are lamenting the sparse experimental record, not the failure of cosmic rays to achieve these energies.
    • Nothing visible supports the assertion that "strangelets" is meant by "exotic phenomena".

    Exhibit B: Unknown -- everything is blacked out except for a fragment of a pragraph which reads:
    If CASTOR does not find events that can be identified with the anomalous cosmic-ray events, this assumption may need to be reconsidered. Pb-Pb collisions with the LHC will have an energy 28 times that of Au-Au collisions studied at RHIC. With this huge increase in energy a wealth of new phenomena is almost assured. Because of the much large mass number, Pb-Pb events can be expected to show exotic phenomena that is beyond the reach of cosmic rays.
    Epilog to Exhibit B:
    Exhibit B shows the duplicity of CERN, which affirms in internal documents that the Pb-Pb collision 'events can be expected to show exotic phenomena [strangelets] that is beyond the reach of cosmic rays'
    • Calling the Department of Redundancy Department.

    Preamble to Exhibit C:
    Exhibit C
    Exhibit C shows that CERN expects to produce Strangelets with a probability of 65/70% for detection which makes the risk of extinction of Earth unacceptable for governments.
    • Not CERN, but one researcher at CERN. Not production probabilities but modeled detection probabilities contingent on production of hypothetical objects.
    • No evidence given that author can speak towards risk of extinction or what governments consider acceptable.

    Exhibit C: (presentation slides 17 and 18 from P. Katsas, Strangelet hunt at CMS QCD at Cosmic Energies II Workshop; Skopelos, 26-30 September 2005, ) This ignores that the 65%-70% percentage are not production probabilities but detection probabilities contingent on the creation of hypothetical objects which are modeled on slide 15. This isn't rocket science -- it's Power Point.

    --- End of Exhibts ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Both safety statements are false. Since CERN:
    • Has designed and installed a particle-detector machine called CASTOR, acronym for Centauro and Strangelet Object Research, to observer the creation of Strangelets at the LHC (Exhibit A).
    Defendant CERN affirms in closed door Conferences and documents released for internal consumption that:
    • Lead on lead atomic collisions, which will start potentially as early as this November, 2010, will have more energy than natural cosmic ray collisions (which are primarily Proton on Nitrogen/Oxygen) for Lead on Lead, and so in those collisions “events can be expected to show exotic phenomena [strangelets] that is beyond the reach of cosmic rays” (Exhibit B).
    • And CERN gives a probability of detecting strangelets in those collisions at low energy of 70%; and at high energy of 65% (Exhibit C).
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    It is the contention of Plaintiffs that those statements completely change the nature of this suit, since now “injury in fact” is not speculative but proven by CERN's internal papers as a serious potentiality, should the intended creation of strange matter go awry, and the newly created strangelets are spilled from the LHC and engage in the runaway fusion reactions theorized in scientific articles, instead of the hoped-for benign fizzle.

    Lawyerly ethics compel a lawyer to speak up when he has misstated evidence, just as the US Government Lawyers did when materially misstating the US costs of the LHC construction. Mistakes happen in the editing process, and you would be a fool to wait for the judge to point them out to you.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    • Section III, at last. I thought we might be forever stuck on Section II.
    • The USA PATRIOT Act was never properly briefed in the original 2008 case or the 2010 Appeal, but only appeared as oral argument in June 2010. It wasn't even properly cited as relevant law for this request for rehearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Further on, given this new evidence and the number of potential victims of those experiments (namely all mankind), CERN is committing an Act of Terrorism that gives Jurisdiction to this Court under the US Civil Code. In all cases of 'International of Domestic Terrorism', which can put at risk the life of millions of people; the Patriot Act's amendments to the Civil Code (Section 802, 803 and 3077 of US Civil Code) expressly gives Jurisdiction over those crime to 'any Federal judicial district as provided by law.' [[On view of the recognition by CERN that is will produce strangelets (F, Exhibit C) that could extinguish life in this planet, CERN's action should be considered an act of Terrorism, which falls under Federal Court jurisdiction. Since it applies to CERN Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, Section 802 and 803 and its amendments by the Patriot Act, 'Title VIII -- strengthening the criminal laws against terrorism' that affirm:
    “(1) ‘act of terrorism’ means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331.
    (5) the term ‘domestic terrorism’ means activities that— “(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; “(B) appear to be intended— “(iii) mass destruction
    (b) A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Ferdal judicial district as provided by law.”
    Specifically this Court should consider the cases of Terrorism in which the Code allows intervention of the US Government: Section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), section 2332b (relating to actions of terrorism transcending national boundaries) and finally section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities), Since the LHC in which the US invested 531 million $ can be destroyed by those experiments.
    • Calling it new doesn't make it new. Calling it evidence doesn't make it admissible or probative evidence of anything claimed.
    • Potential victims only include all mankind in universes where any of the plaintiffs worries are the true laws of the universe, which plaintiffs do not and cannot demonstrate, so their claims of injury are entirely speculative and baseless.
    • I think it is likely that US Criminal law (Public Law 107-56, Chapter VIII, Section 802 "Definition of domestic terrorism." i.e. 18 USC 2331, Public Law 107-56, Chapter VIII, Section 803 "Prohibition against harboring terrorists." i.e. 18 USC 2339 and 18 USC 3077) were meant to be cited. Without a USC Title, these section numbers are meaningless.
    • No statute or case law is established where any operation of CERN is an "Act of Terrorism" -- the only demonstrated terrorism is the hounding of the news media of these various baseless fears, which was the alleged cause of one Indian girl's suicide. Indeed, Plaintiffs claim that CERN is not aware of any demonstrated mechanism whereby CERN's operations are unsafe so no act of CERN which causes future injury is foreseeable, and no element of the motive of an "Act of Terrorism" is viable.
    • What a curious claim that claimed statues automatically grant jurisdiction "as provided by law." The statues are the law, so if they automatically grant jurisdiction, it is curious that they would claim to refer to some other source of truth as to who gets jurisdiction. 18 USC 2339 (b) says: "A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law." so plaintiffs still have not cited a law why the Hawaiian court has jurisdiction.
    • Having found the text to 18 USC 2331 (1)(B) nothing CERN does "appear[s] to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping" and so as a matter of law cannot be terrorism.
    • The activity of searching for strangelets by some researcher does not imply that CERN as an organization "recognizes" that they exist in our universe or that they intend to form them. Neither does it imply that they are dangerous or that CERN expects that they are.
    • The footnote shows that my guesses were right, and the quote again shows that plaintiffs misquote and misconstrue sources like a creationist quote-miner. The quote is pieced together from fractions of 18 USC 3077 (1), 18 USC 2331 (5) and 18 USC 2339 (b).
    • It seems almost petty to point out that the activities are CERN are not "primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States" as required by 18 USC 2331 (5) (C) for that definition to apply. But as numerous people have correctly point that out since 2006, plaintiffs still don't get it.
    • More statues cited by the footnote. 18 USC 831, 18 USC 2332b and (this one I'm guessing at, since there is no content in the original) 42 USC 2284, none of which apply and none of which are part of the 2008 lawsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Thus, contrary to the appellate tribunal Panel ruling, which states that “even if Wagner (sic) demonstrated.. injury in fact.. the destruction of the Earth is in no way attributable to the US Government”, under this new evidence the Government has, according to US Code, both the obligation and the legal capacity to intervene. Since now there is a possibility of 'Acts of Terrorism' involving nuclear substances that can cause 'mass destruction' [[Again a footnote citation with the same number (6) as the one before it is given here which mismatches the actual footnotes.]]
    • The panel opinion did not concern itself with the USA PATRIOT Act, because those statues and any corresponding case law was not briefed with appropriate specificity in the March 2008 complaint or briefed for the June 2010 hearing. It only came up as bizarre ramblings in oral argument. FRCP 8 (a)(1) and FRAP 27 (a)(2)(A) requires that such grounds be briefed clearly and with specificity. Making vague noises about the USA PATRIOT Act which is no longer the unamended law of the land is not useful.
    • The actual section of the decision reinforces the rule-based viewpoint that the law of the case is
      Quote Originally Posted by Fletcher, Pregerson and Clifton
      Even if Wagner has demonstrated injury in fact, he nevertheless fails to satisfy the causality or redressability prongs set out in [Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560-61 (1992)]. The European Center for Nuclear Research (“CERN”) proposed and constructed the Collider, albeit with some U.S. government support. The U.S. government enjoys only observer status on the CERN council, and has no control over CERN or its operations. Accordingly, the alleged injury, destruction of the earth, is in no way attributable to the U.S. government’s failure to draft an environmental impact statement.
    • The Court will not reward Wagner for "new evidence" when his ignorance of this is his own doing, just as it won't reward Wagner with expert status in the field of probability, breathtaking as the scope of the "Wagner Principle of Probability" is. Mulish ignorance is to no-one's benefit.
    • No evidence has yet shown this 'mass destruction' and even if anti-terrorism law was part of this case, none of the plaintiffs claims amount to a hill of beans in the realm of casting CERN as the villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    In the suit Plaintiffs quoted the Patriot Act's amendments to the US Code that permits Federal Courts and the American government to intervene when there are Acts of Terrorism or nuclear substances that can harm American lives. Now the Exhibits show further proofs of those acts. Thus, the Court must accept jurisdiction under US Code, enjoin the Defendant DOE from funding CERN, and ask the US and European Governments to stop those experiments.
    • Wrong. Plaintiffs never demonstrated that even the USA PATRIOT Act, were it part of this case, allows extraterritorial jurisdiction over CERN or that it applies to the US funding efforts. They claim this, but do not make a case for it.
    • Wrong. They did not show that the any of the criminal statues apply, because they have no facts in evidence. In fact, should plaintiffs ever bother to serve CERN correctly, CERN will probably immediately sue for defamation of what are ultimately vile and baseless allegations of criminal wrongdoing. Since Sancho reposts this recent slur on his web pages, the privilege that protects statements made in the course of a court case does not apply.
    • Wrong. The exhibits are not in evidence. The purpose of the appeal is not to get a new bite at the apple but to show that the first bite was unfairly thrown out. Wagner has lost the thread of the case and each appeal ranges further afield and has less to do with the March 2008 case.
    • Wrong. Even if the exhibits were in evidence, they don't begin to show what Wagner claims for them.
    • Wrong. You don't tell 11 judges of the ninth circuit what they must do, you persuade them that they should do it in the interests of justice, and you build a case with statues and case law, read fairly and completely. This cannot be done with a quote-mining mentality.
    • Wrong. It is not the job of the Appellate Court to order the DOE (what about the NSF?) to do anything. The goal is to get the case back to a trial which was never had in District Court.
    • Wrong. It is never the job of the court to advance your political causes -- you have to petition those governments yourself.
    Last edited by rpenner; 10-23-10 at 04:57 PM.

  4. #324
    Last edited by rpenner; 10-27-10 at 07:47 PM. Reason: Added "bulk", nrao press release with videos

  5. #325
    Just a reminder, this case was dismissed in September 2008 for a lack of Federal jurisdiction because the only Federal Statue in the case was "National Environmental Policy Act. 42 U.S.C. §§ 4321-4347" and especially "42 U.S.C. § 4332(2)(c)" which only covers "major Federal action[s]" as defined by Federal regulations. The court also made clear that it had seen the letter from the Swiss Embassy disputing the service to CERN as illegal and no applicable laws were cited to make CERN part of the case.

    In 2008 the court also acknowledged that the Federal Defendants (i.e. not CERN) raised other arguments, which the court declined to decide at that time having settled the issue with NEPA analysis.

    But Plaintiffs still haven't meaningfully responded to the case or laws on paper and go tilting at windmills.

    They ask as if they think each appeal is a retrial, when only the narrow issue at stake is if the dismissal gets overturned.

    In August of 2010, the appellate court upheld the dismissal for multiple reasons:
    • That Wagner did not demonstrate as a matter of fact that the LHC would cause harm, nor did Wagner claim that it would -- only that there, in Wagner's words, was "potential [for] adverse consequences."
    • That Wagner did not demonstrate as a matter of fact that the LHC operation is under US Defendant's control, so there is no order that the court can make to the US Defendants that would have any impact on future LHC operations.
    • CERN, as was never argued against by fact, statue, treaty and case law, is not part of this case.
    There is no appearance of 18 USC 831 or the USA PATRIOT act or BP's oil slick in the decision because Wagner didn't properly bring them up as part of the case.

    So now we are going line-by-line through the Gish Gallop of a filing which is meant to be Petition for Rehearing En Banc, which is to say a legal brief of why the Appellate Panel screwed up some matter of fact or law that was properly before them and not itself a retrial.

    Hopefully, the court will take notice that a majority of judges did not call for a rehearing and we can consider this matter closed by the end of next week.

    So back to the petition....

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    The appellate tribunal Panel ruling is based on the premise that the only ‘injury in fact’ there must be, in essence, is the actual destruction of the Earth (not the potential destruction), as to be enough proof to enjoin CERN. Yet such ‘injury in fact’ in such case means our extinction. So not even then could we denounce CERN, as we would not be here. That appellate tribunal Panel ruling though no longer applies under the newly discovered evidence (Exhibits A and C), since 'injury in fact' is not speculative, but rather strongly evidenced by the fact that CERN intends to create strange matter, contrary to its public postruing and its indirect assurances to this Court via the Amici Curiae (who appear themselves to be misinformed and/or deceived by CERN). Such duplicity on the part of Defendant CERN, coupled with the strong likelihood that such strange matter could engage in runaway fusion [[ In the article “Will Relativistic Heavy-Ion Colliders Destroy Our Planet” 470 Phys. Lett. B. 142-148 (1999); Dr. Rujula, who works at CERN and denies any risk in his public statements for this company CERN states “Imagine that, for some unforeseen reason, there is a ‘valley of stability’ for negative strangelets. Suppose that, somehow, such an object is produced in a laboratory high-energy reaction and that it survives the collisions that eventually bring it to rest in matter. The negative strangelet would attract a positive nucleus and may eat it. The resulting object may loose positive charge and adjust its strangeness by electron capture or positron β - decays. The new strangelet may be negative again, and maintain an appetite for nuclei. If its mass grows to some 0.3 ng (A 2 × 1014) it falls to the center of the Earth, for its weight overcomes the structural energy density of matter (109 erg cm-3 or 0.1 eV per molecular bond). At a mass above 1.5 ng, for a typical nuclear density, the object become larger than an atom and the positron clous that it has been developing sits mainly inside the strangelet itself (fr stable strangeletes that have grown larg, the sign of Z is immaterial). Even without the help of the Coulomb attraction, gravity and thermal motion may then sustain the accreting chain reaction until, perhaps, the who planets is digested, leaving behind a strangelet with roughly the mass of the Earth and 100 m radius. The release of energy per nucleon should be on the order of several MeV and, if the process is a run-away one, the planet would end in a supernova-like catastrophe.” (underlining added for emphasis)

    While in the paper “New solutions for the color-flavor locked strangelets” G.X. Peng, X. J. Wen, Y.D. Chen from the 'Institute of High Energy Physics' of China and the Center for Theoretical Physics at MIT, Cambridge, USA present 'solutions to the system equations where CFL strangelets are slightly negatively charged.' Further on, they give estimates that show they will 'certainly' be produced at the energies to take place at the LHC. The paper can be downloaded at:
    ]], is all that is needed for there to exist the requisite ‘injury in fact’ as envisioned in NEPA and the Environmental Impact Statements (EIS) mandated whenever such potentialities exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melville
    All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it.
    • In 2008, the District Court wrote: "NEPA requires federal agencies to prepare and file an EIS before undertaking any "major Federal actions significantly affecting the quality of the human environment." 42 U.S.C. § 4332(C)." Nowhere in this document do they argue that US Defendant's or CERN's actions was a "major Federal action" so they are attacking just if their physics claims are right, which is not sufficient to reopen the case.
    • The case law for "injury in fact" with respect to NEPA was spelled out by Federal Defendants in their 2008 Motion to Dismiss, page 12 and the 2010 reply. Friends of the Earth, Inc. v. Laidlaw Environmental Services (TOC), Inc., 528 U.S. 167, 180-81 (2000) and Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555 (1992). In contrast, this filing does not address those points.
    • The factual case for "injury in fact" is entirely based on non-expert Wagner's strained reading of documents not part of this case and his non-expert speculations on top of that shakey foundation. As the District Court wrote in 2008: "Conclusory allegations of law and unwarranted inferences, though, are insufficient to defeat a motion to dismiss. ... When the motion to dismiss is a factual attack on subject matter jurisdiction, no presumptive truthfulness attaches to plaintiff's allegations." Indeed.
    • Recent astrophysical results (see previous post) tend to rule out stable bulk strange matter.
    • Quoting Dr. Rujula who starts the sentence with "imagine" is no way to show the claim is non-speculative.
    • Reprinting some objections to footnote 2 which concerns materials not properly before the court:
      • "Dr. Rujula's" paper excerpt does not appear to be underlined for emphasis. There is no basis established for a Dr. Rujula being at CERN. The actual authors are: Arnon Dar, A. De Rújula, and Ulrich Heinz and were at CERN during the writing of this paper, over 10 years ago. Plaintiffs lack foundation to quote mine the questions asked in the paper and ignore the answers. Under Wagner's own methodology, the "may" and "if" turn the quoted excerpt into sheer speculation.
      • Further demonstration of the plaintiff's inability to read the paper is in the scrambled scientific notation cut and pasted without corrections. The lack of effort that went into assembling this section amounts to contempt of court.
      • Also, the radius of the 'rock' is sourced at 100 m but argued without source at 7500 m.
      • Further demonstration of the plaintiff's inability to read even arXiv's website is that the Peng, Wen and Chen paper did appear in peer-reviewed literature in 2006. Figure 4 indicates that it is a matter of speculation what the parameters of the universe are (even if the MIT Bag model is reliable in this domain) and that this paper does not constitute evidence for stable strangelets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    So this Court can no longer deny Jurisdiction on those grounds, or else the honorable judges would imply that we should scrap all prevention of crime including the prevention of genocides; that we should allow rapists to stalk their victims because these is no injury in fact; that we should let people menace the life of others with weapons or threats, because there is no ‘injury in fact’; that restraining orders and Injunctions should be scrapped all together until there in fact an injury, and not an ‘injury in fact’.
    • When he talks about stalking, weapons, and restraining orders, is he talking about himself?
    • Courts don't prevent crime, they punish for it. This is civil court, so crime is irrelevant. The word Wagner is looking for is tort.
    • Also this is US Federal Court and things like anti-stalking laws are often only governed by State Laws, like the California anti-stalking statues a judge criticized a prosecutor for not charging Mr. Wagner with. And so stalking is a separate crime in California. Violation of criminal law is an ‘injury in fact’ in Federal law, but a violation of a procedural law (like the EIS filing requirement of NEPA for "major Federal actions significantly affecting the quality of the human environment" does not of itself amount to a ‘injury in fact’ in Federal case law. It's a piece of paper not being placed in a file somewhere, how is that an "injury" especially if the controlling statue and regulations don't even require its existence?
    • Talk about "[c]onclusory allegations of law and unwarranted inferences" ! Wagner has learned nothing since 2008.

    Also I wrote up some implications of the previous post for a comment on Starts With a Bang.

    • A neutron star mass was measured to high accuracy and seems to put it beyond the highest mass supportable if any of the hypotheses of kaon- or strange matter- stars were relevant to our universe. Like more conventional models of neutron stars, these objects have upper mass limits set by the equation of state of baryonic matter and tend to be denser and therefore more susceptible to collapse than conventional models. Without stable bulk strange matter, all the "LHC strangelet might eat the Earth" bugaboos are non-starters. Prior to this discovery, they were just ridiculously unlikely, poorly defined, unmodeled and baseless scare stories.
    Last edited by rpenner; 10-30-10 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Added second paragraph, Added link to Starts With A Bang and discussion

  6. #326
    Exhibit B (source not previously known) is derived from the last four sentences of the abstract to

    Edwin Norbeck, Yasar Onel, Ewa Gładysz-Dziaduś, Apostolos D. Panagiotou, and Panagiotis Katsas "Exotic Physics at the LHC with CASTOR in CMS" International Journal of Modern Physics E 16 7-8, pp. 2451-2456 (2007)

    or in quote mined form as "Exhibit 40" of the pseudo-scientific stylings of Eric Penrose
    which is apparently where the weird black out in the "Exhibit B" came from.

    Far from being an "internal document" as Wagner (and possibly Sancho) claim, this was published and clearly available prior to the start of case filed in March 2008.

    Further, this paper exposes a second fraud upon the court -- CASTOR does not stand for the ungrammatical "Centauro and Strangelet Object Research" -- which is claimed in text introducing Exhibit A, but "Centauro And Strange Object Research" -- where strange means unexplained.

    The original motivation for CASTOR ... was to study, in the laboratory using heavy-ion beams from the LHC, unexplained types of events seen in cosmic rays.
    The authors then go on to discuss a model of distillation of QGP (that seems to have a pretty narrow buy-in in the physics community) to identify with the unknown "strongly penetrating component" of high energy cosmic ray showers. This conjecture is the reason "strangelet" often appears in quotes or in a qualified context from these authors.

  7. #327
    Alas and alack! Before I was able to finish my writeup of the further two sections and the various ways in which they fail to connect with verifiable reality or the law, the Court has ruled on the petition:
    Judge Pregerson and Judge Clifton have voted to deny the petition for rehearing en banc, and Judge B. Fletcher so recommends. The full court has been advised of the petition for rehearing en banc and no judge has requested a vote on whether to rehear the matter en banc. Fed. R. App. P. 35. The petition for rehearing en banc is DENIED.
    From Case: 08-17389, Document: 41, Today at 9:07 am

  8. #328
    I've received some encouraging feedback, and so I guess I will continue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    The ruling implies that if (3) [[3 corresponds to no relevant endnote]] 'a likelihood that a favorable decision will redress the injury', the case must be accepted. And this is indeed the case herein. Since this September's $133.4 million cut over a five-year period to 2015 by European Governments which have also been funding CERN has resulted in a one year delay on the upgrades to the Large Hadron Collider's beam intensity that would increase the dangers of injury and the shutting down of all other accelerators in 2012. Thus, eliminating the US DOE contribution will further imperil and delay LHC's operations and the injury it will cause plaintiffs. [[See ]] Further, eliminating the funding of the intended experimentation (and not the general operations funded by CERN's European support, which funding is significantly reduced), which is the current primary US funding, would also serve to redress the injury.
    • Wagner forgets to be specific in that redressability was just one of the prongs on which his case has been progressively thrown further out of court. All of the prongs, from both September 2008 and August 2010, must be resolved in Wagner's favor in order for the case to be returned to Federal District Court in Hawaii -- where Wagner no longer resides.
    • Wagner's proposed partial strangulation of CERN's cashflow is not equal to controlling operations and no submitted materials or arguments make this case.
    • Going to the text of Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, we have that it is a fatal flaw to speculate on what CERN, its numerous funding sources which obviously go beyond just the European Governments, and possible new funding sources might do if the US pulls out of its agreements.
      Quote Originally Posted by US Supreme Court
      Over the years, our cases have established that the irreducible constitutional minimum of standing contains three elements. First, the plaintiff must have suffered an "injury in fact"—an invasion of a legally protected interest which is (a) concrete and particularized, see id., [citations omitted] and (b) "actual or imminent, not `conjectural' or `hypothetical,' " [citations omitted]. Second, there must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct complained of—the injury has to be "fairly. . . trace[able] to the challenged action of the defendant, and not . . . th[e] result [of] the independent action of some third party not before the court." [citations omitted] Third, it must be "likely," as opposed to merely "speculative," that the injury will be "redressed by a favorable decision." [citations omitted]
      When the suit is one challenging the legality of government action or inaction, the nature and extent of facts that must be averred (at the summary judgment stage) or proved (at the trial stage) in order to establish standing depends considerably upon whether the plaintiff is himself an object of the action (or forgone action) at issue. If he is, there is ordinarily little question that the action or inaction has caused him injury, and that a judgment preventing or requiring the action will redress it. When, however, as in this case, a plaintiff's asserted injury arises from the government's allegedly unlawful regulation (or lack of regulation) of someone else, much more is needed. In that circumstance, causation and redressability ordinarily hinge on the response of the regulated (or regulable) third party to the government action or inaction—and perhaps on the response of others as well. The existence of one or more of the essential elements of standing "depends on the unfettered choices made by independent actors not before the courts and whose exercise of broad and legitimate discretion the courts cannot presume either to control or to predict," [citations omitted] and it becomes the burden of the plaintiff to adduce facts showing that those choices have been or will be made in such manner as to produce causation and permit redress ability of injury. [citations omitted] Thus, when the plaintiff is not himself the object of the government action or inaction he challenges, standing is not precluded, but it is ordinarily "substantially more difficult" to establish. [citations omitted]
    • Even Wagner claims partial strangling funding would just delay and so is in no way equal to a permanent injunction of the controlling operator of the LHC. Such indirect and speculative chains of events leave the case far from a hope of effective relief.
    • Wagner doesn't cite any expert source or empirical model which claims the LHC is more dangerous at higher beam energy than now. Those claims are his non-expert opinions which are not part of the evidence.

    So this paragraph is wishful thinking from start to last.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    This Court must be aware that neither the US DOE nor CERN have carried out the environmental impact studies required by NEPA, even though the US contributed $531 million to CERN -- a quantity far larger than the total sum invested in many other projects in which environmental impact studies were carried out.
    • In September 2008, the District Court Judge reasoned by statute, regulation, case law and simple arithmetic that no part of the US Government is required by statue to carry out an EIS with regard to the LHC.
    • Of course, no statute requires CERN to file an EIS.
    • Section IV at no point addresses the "Major Federal project" language of NEPA which means the 2008 decision automatically stands.
    • If this paragraph is meant to address the 10% rule articulated by the District court and the 10% parallel decision of the US Supreme Court in Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife it fails for lack of specificity and facts.
    • It also fails as nonsensical apples and oranges since the total of all Federal funding where no EIS is filed probably greatly exceeds $531 million in every year. c.f. the Federal K-12 funding.
    • It also doesn't address the other prong examined by the District Court, namely that the US doesn't control the operation of the LHC.

  9. #329
    Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle CptBork's Avatar
    Wait, so now we've gone from fears about the world blowing up, to claims that there's some sort of multimillion dollar injury to team Wagner?

    He should probably be in court trying to shut down the Daily Show too after what they did to him.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenner View Post
    Defenders of Wildlife
    They don't defend as much as these guys!

  11. #331
    Sorry -- I don't see where Wagner says millions of dollars is a damage claim.

    The discussion of $531,000,000 is about the US-paid contributions to LHC construction costs over 1997-2007, which completed before Sancho and Wagner filed their March 2008 case demanding an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) under NEPA and also demanding CERN (which as early as June 26, 2008, the Federal government pointed out there was no evidence of effective service which would give the Court jurisdiction over CERN in footnote 11 of Federal Defendants’ Memorandum In Support Of Combined Motion To Dismiss And Motion For Summary Judgment) provide a new Safety review which they did on June 20, 2008. But, as NEPA is a law, you can't just quote mine a single sentence to know if an EIS is actually required by law. So the judges looked at the whole of the statute, the federal regulations required by the statute, the history of the case law -- which many times says paperwork like the EIS and the desired Safety review is a mere procedural hurdle and not of itself a "injury in fact" to Sancho and Wagner, personally -- and the judges correctly point out that less that 10% of the $8+ billion dollar construction costs were funded by the US and the US has no control over operation of the LHC, which force the judges to decide that the LHC -- which straddles the French-Swiss border -- is not a "Major Federal action" and that therefore NEPA -- National Environmental Policy Act -- does not require an EIS.

    The figure of $133,400,000 is talking about a decision of the European governments which are actually members of CERN reducing their contributions over 2011-2015. It's only in the case because Wagner is trying to say desperately that LHC today with the 3.5 TeV proton beams is a different beastie than LHC circa 2016 with the 7 TeV proton beams. Since his 2008 case is about a funding decision made over 1996-1999, I think this is trying to unscramble an egg.

    The injury Sancho and Wagner flip-flop on is at different times (1) a whining about paperwork whose filing after-the-fact would not seem to have any effect on funds completely spent before the case was filed, (2) allegations that CERN intentionally wants to murder all of humanity but this they try to call terrorism when that law was not part of the 2008 case and they don't begin to address even the plain text of the statutes, and (3) that CERN wants to negligently proceed and ignore their concerns, even though the successful scientists state repeatedly that the concerns of the soi-disant scientists Sancho and Wagner are baseless and without scientific merit in light of empirical and theoretical studies. Clearly at least two of those theories require that CERN be a part of the case and the remaining one doesn't seem to rest on any legal right of the plaintiffs.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaNumeric View Post
    They don't defend as much as these guys!
    "Ahem. Mr. Mandrake, this court will not tolerate any more of your shenanigans with the evidence disappearing like that."

    More like "Defenders of the King Features Syndicate". Nothing ties them together but profit and the suspicious Rick Gordon (1986-1987) who looks much like "Wheeler" of the Planeteers (1990-1995).

  13. #333
    Valued Senior Member Pandaemoni's Avatar
    Why is he suing in U.S. courts anyway? I understand that it may be convenient for him, but if he feels strongly then the thing to do is obviously to hire counsel and sue them in Switzerland. If your going to be a crackpot, don't be a lazy or a cheap crackpot, shell out for the airfare and sue in the proper court.

  14. #334
    CERN has legal immunity in both France and Switzerland. Besides, Walter is obviously much more familiar with US law, he'd be completely in over his head if he tried a European court. And he'd not want to make a fool of himself, would he.....

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    In that sense we must learn from past mistakes of the US Government. Indeed, as the Washington Post recently denounced [[See the article “U.S. exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling from Environmental Impact Study” at:
    ]] that the ‘U.S. exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling from Environmental Impact Study' since BP contended that an oil spill was “unlikely” in our lifetime, and requested exemption from producing an EIS. This “unlikely” is exactly the same word used by CERN's Amici Curiae, Mr. Sheldon Glashow, to deny the possibility of creation of strange matter or strangelets [[Both B.P. and CERN lied, saying a spill was 'unlikely'. B.P. 'unlikely' statement can be found at:

    CERN's 'unlikely' statement on the creation of strangelets by Amicus Curiae, Mr. Glashow can be found in his Amicus Brief, “Argument I. Appellants allegations of a safety risk at CERN and injury to them are purely hypothetical, speculative, and not credible.” This again is in open contradiction with CERN's conferences on CASTOR and the fact that CERN has spent important amounts of time and money, constructing a detector of strangelets and giving 'week conferences' on them (Exhibit A, C.)
    ]], which the exhibits show CERN believes in fact it will produce with a 70% probability of detection. Thus, even if this Court trusted the Amici Curiae - unaware of the duplicity and willful blindness of CERN - and it believed there was no risk of 'injury in fact', under the new evidence of those exhibits, it must consider that as in the case of BP, a spill will quite possibly happen. Mr. Glashow's affirmation is contradicted by the very same CERN Company in its internal documents that affirm exactly the opposite - the 'likely' possibility of creation of those spills.
    • This paragraph starts with an unclear antecedent. In what sense?
    • The BP oil spill from Deepwater Horizon started on April 20, 2010 and was not part of the filings for the June 2010 hearing where it was first brought up in oral argument. “British Petroleum when they sought to obtain a drilling permit from the Marine Management Service, arguing that they should be exempted from NEPA because of the unlikely scenario of having environmental disaster and that argument has ..” while here for the first time they purport to quote the Exploration Plan, but only quote a news story with a sentence fragment which doesn't even hint at the methodology used to obtain the evaluation as “unlikely”.
    • The February 2009 Exploration Plan almost certainly didn't include the phrase “in our lifetime” in this context. You can look at it yourself by going to or by going to and entering lease number G32306.
    • It's apples and oranges (or in legal jargon to suit Wagner's stylings, inapposite) to compare the DOI policy which allowed for “categorical exemptions” to NEPA-based rules, like requiring EIS filings, ( ) from the September 2008 ruling that a project which sits on foreign soil, has over 90% non-US funding, and zero US Government control is obviously not a “Major Federal action” and that the portion of NEPA which requires the US Government create an EIS for “Major Federal action[s]” does not apply. As CERN is not part of this case and not a US Government agency, it even more obviously fall under NEPA.
    • Trust Wagner to make unclear claims and fail to cite correctly. Wagner is either citing an opinion piece (not a scientific paper) Sheldon L. Glashow and Richard Wilson "Taking serious risks seriously" Nature 402 (Dec. 9, 1999) where different prerequisite hypotheses are called "unlikely" or the opposite of something "strongly favour[ed]" or "exceedingly unlikely" ; or the Amici Curiae brief of 2008 (Docket Number 93) from Glashow, Wilczek and Wilson which goes on to point out that no evidence for strangelets emerged from RHIC; or the 2010 Amici Curiae brief (08-17389 Docket Numbers 18, 30) which was updated for the appeal to emphasize that the "exceedingly unlikely" proposition from 1999 that strangelets can be created at colliders like RHIC is still "exceedingly unlikely".
    • Indeed, recent astrophysical observations support and strengthen the opinion of the three Amici, who go on in the 2010 brief to point out that Wagner's misuse of the term "unlikely" marks him as a non-scientist.
    • In the footnote, the same February 2009 Exploration Plan is linked to -- the word "unlikely" is not prominent (indeed, I can't find it outside of section 7.1.2) and even if it is there in the context Wagner claims, Wagner did not demonstrate that BP lied by using unlikely. (Indeed, doesn't the cumulative evidence from all oil drilling rigs support the general proposition?) A much better case could be made that BP was not in fact telling the truth when they "certif[ied]" that they could deal with any spill.
    • Even more embarrassing to Wagner's law teachers is that the opinion of Amici (in 1999, in 2008 and in 2010) is distinct from the opinion of CERN. The Amici do not speak for CERN but for science. Here there is some evidence that Wagner is referring to the 2010 brief.
    • Nor is that the opinion of Amici evidence differs from a handful of researchers at CERN who co-author papers together evidence that either opinion is a lie or formed from non-scientific means.
    • Just like to the expert eye, the close collaboration between the small CASTOR team in publications cited, can be indicative of a eddy of thought less connected with the totality of the progress of science, so the expert is loathe to project the opinion of this handful on all of CERN. There are many reasons why CERN might want an forward calorimeter to look at long-flying components of glancing collisions, including whatever are the Centauros.
    • Telling, the 2007 opinion of the handful of researchers is not cast in stone, and in an interview with Alan Boyle of MSNBC, two of the authors state that they no longer support the hypothesis advanced in Exhibit B.
    • And again, the 70% probability of detection assumes that the objects will be produced as modeled, not that physics supports that they will be produced. Probability is not Wagner's strong point.
    • Again, not new evidence -- just new to Wagner due to failures preparing the 2008 case.
    • "[Q]uite possibly" sounds theoretical, speculative and not credible, especially since no model of the event is given and no reliable methodology for assessing the claim is given.
    • The last sentence is repetitive except where they call CERN a "Company", which is Luis Sancho's phrasing from the Oral hearing if I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Indeed, Mr. Katsas, one the scientist in charge of the CASTOR detector plainly states in one of those documents: “My name is Panos Katsas. I work as an experimental physicist for the CASTOR forward calorimeter of CMS and my main area of interest is the study of exotic events in heavy ion collisions, especially the identification of strangelets, which are likely to be produced.” (italics added for emphasis) [[Mr. Katas' statement can be found at bottom, left]]
    • The purported quote omits without notation the sentence "I am a Ph.D student at the Nuclear & Particle Physics department of the University of Athens, where I also obtained my bachelor and MSc degree." and so Panos Katsas is among the more junior authors of the paper quote-mined in Exhibit B.
    • Neither the paper from Exhibit B, or the profile piece in CMS Times gives an empirical or theoretical basis to believe in the existence of strangelets. So when we learn that the first two listed authors now have the opinion that the cosmic ray record does not demonstrate their existence, how are we to judge the one-time stated opinion of a junior member of their group?
    • As with the underlining purported added to a quote in footnote 2, there is no sign of the italics added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    The difference between both types of spills however is significant:
    • One happened in US territorial waters under the Interior department -- another is conjectured to perhaps be possible to happen on the French-Swiss border.
    • One happened in a manner obviously consistent with long-accepted physical law, another is conjectured to perhaps be possible to happen but as of yet not shown to be consistent with empirical observations.
    • One failed to have an EIS filed because the Department of Interior had adopted a policy of granting "categorical exemptions" to the requirements of the law, the other was never subject to the EIS filing requirement that NEPA imposes on major actions which are Federal actions.
    • Oil has a long history of being studied and many mechanisms of how it harms life of Earth have been documented scientifically. The scientific documentation of the harm caused by strangelets is similar is size to the scientific documentation of transmutation of the elements caused by unicorn horn.
    • These "significant" differences suggest that the BP situation does not shed light as to the proper disposition of this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    A spill of hyper-dense Strangelets, falling into the Earth will convert by a runaway fusion reaction more and more atoms into an ultra-dense strange liquid, until its mass is such that it starts an ice-9 reaction, exploding the Earth due to the release of enormous fusion energy, which will be irreversible. (This is no different than the fusion reactions of so-called Hydrogen-bombs, which have a runaway fusion retain until all utilizable fuel has been consumed, allows for H-bombs of any size. In the case of Strangelets, the utilizable fuel would be all of the atoms of earth, not just heavy-Hydrogen atoms which are otherwise rare on earth.) This is because there is no way mankind can enter into the center of the Earth and close a spill of stable Strangelets, as British Petroleum has been able to do with great difficulties and environmental damage to the American coast in their Gulf Spill, which was only one mile down from the sea surface.
    • The first sentence is vivid, but based on nothing, when evidence and calculation is necessary to hold that opinion by a hypothetical expert witness or scientist.
    • The statement about the utilizable fuel of fusion weapons serves to completely trivialize the job of the bomb designers who seek to achieve yields close to the theoretical 6 megatons of TNT per ton of bomb, and by trivializing it demonstrate that Wagner and Sancho have no real understanding of it.
    • Is it true that Luis Sancho makes a living writing? I found that last sentence very painful to type.
    Last edited by rpenner; 11-07-10 at 10:32 PM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Plaintiffs/Appellees have thus shown that:
    • CERN recognizes it will attempt to produce strangelets, and standard science has proven that strangelets could blow up the Earth (2):
    • Neither the 1999 Dar, De Rújula, and Heinz paper nor the 2006 Peng, Wen and Chen paper paper referenced in footnote 2 demonstrate any part of the chain of reasoning to suggest that negative strangelets are stable and form at colliders or that any collider product poses a danger to the Earth. The are both speculative papers that explore ideas.
    • Neither paper reflects the judgment of CERN that the LHC is going to form strangelets.
    • Plantiffs do not explain why they say in paragraph one of section I that "This type of matter . .. no longer exists." if they now want us to "[i]magine" that stranglets are stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    • Injury in Fact is proven (1); and “a casual connection between the injury and the conduct complained of” is proven, given the fact that the US is on planet Earth (2) [[See Google maps if the Court doubts of the 'causal connection' between]]
    • Footnote 1 was a URL to a copy of the French letter stating what Wagner's $500 bought -- the delivery of an English-language complaint via means not authorized by law. So this is more evidence of a poorly edited draft being sent off to the court by Plaintiffs who insist that this is the most important issue ever.
    • Footnote 2 as just referenced above doesn't seem to make sense here either.
    • Footnote 11, the last appearing, ends in mid-phrase leaving us to speculate what marvel is going to be revealed on Google maps. That the US is on planet Earth?!?
    • So without support, we have more self-serving "[c]onclusory allegations of law and unwarranted inferences". You can't tell the court what to think, you are suppose to persuade them to see things your way. It's called building a case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    • Defendants CERN and DOE are acting with Criminal Negligence and Recklessness, imperiling the life of all the citizens of America by conducting those experiments, which can cause a spill of Strangelets. Hence they are under the jurisdiction of this Court under both NEPA and the US Code against 'Terrorist acts'.
    • Defendant NSF will be glad to know they are off the case.
    • The second of the sections labeled II beats the drum a little on black holes, but it looks like plaintiffs have largely abandoned black holes, and completely abandoned magnetic monopoles (from paragraph 13 of the 2008 Complaint)
    • You can't be convicted of "Terrorism" by means of negligent acts. I've linked to the statutes (e.g. 18 USC § 2331) and obviously a hypothetical supervillan is only guilty of terrorism if that supervillan threatens or causes mass destruction as a means to get a government or population to do something. Proving negligence and/or recklessness would be the same as acquitting the alleged supervillian of any charges of terrorism.
    • If the lives of all Americans are equally threatened, then court doctrine says Plaintiffs have no particular standing and thus lack standing to sue. "..plaintiffs may not air “generalized grievances” shared by all or a large class of citizens." This is a matter for the Executive branch if claim is true.
    • CERN cannot be guilty under NEPA when the requirement is that the US Government file paperwork when undertaking a "Major Federal action." CERN and the US Government are different things.
    • The DOJ cannot be guilty under NEPA when the requirement is that the US Government file paperwork when undertaking a "Major Federal action" unless the LHC (owned and operated by CERN) is a "Major Federal action."

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter L. Wagner
    Since 'a likelihood that a favorable decision will redress the injury (3) is shown, this Court must rule immediately against Defendants CERN and the DOE, issuing a temporary Restraining Order until a full Hearing thereon can be held, enjoining the US DOE so as to prevent further funding of those Experiments under NEPA and under the obligations set by the US Code, titles 802, 803, and 3077, and further requesting the European Governments with territorial jurisdiction over CERN (Switzerland and France) to stop the 'likely' creation of Strangelets in those experiments.

    DATED: October 3, 2010

    s/Walter_L._Wagner s/Luis_Sancho_/_wlw
    Walter L. Wagner Luis Sancho
    • Footnote 3 is an unhelpful footnote on quantum mechanics -- I've tried reading the (1), (2) and (3) as something other than footnotes, but nothing occurs to me.
    • Ruling against defendants at the appellate level of an appeal to dismiss will at best return the case to the District Level -- in Hawaii. Having long since lost the thread of the case, Wagner has let the clock for proper service to CERN run out, and has wasted many pages on irrelevant side issues like the physics opinions of Panos Katsas and a garbled description of terrorism. The biggest issues -- how a 6-7% percentage of the $8 billion LHC construction turns the project into a Major Federal action, how lack of an EIS -- predicated on a favorable answer to the first question -- is an particular injury to Wagner and Sancho and not the whole of the world, how the appellate court misapplied the law or misread the facts before them when they found many other fundamental flaws in the case.
    • Wagner is in no place to lecture the courts on the law, when the claimed titles in US law don't exist. 18 USC § 2331, 18 USC § 2339 and 18 USC § 3077 are meant, but never properly referred to -- especially in the 2008 Complaint which sets the law of the case to be National Environmental Policy Act. 42 U.S.C. §§ 4321-4347.
    • Wagner is free to petition the Governments himself -- the US Court has no reason to.
    • The French and Swiss Governments are not ignorant of CERN's activities. They endorse them.
    • And yes, it looks like Wagner signed Luis Sancho's name on the (recently denied) Petition for Rehearing En Banc.

    OK, this is over for now since November 5 brought a complete and utter rejection of this filing. Thank you for your patience. Rule 13 of the Supreme Court gives 90 days for the filing of a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari, which is an exceedingly formal document that can't be home assembled with the level of skill show in this filing. So this matter isn't truly dead until the early February 2011 deadline passes.

    Of course Wagner's flagging case isn't helped by the this month's successful lead-lead collisions at the LHC.

    Or by the observation of neutron stars too heavy to be held up if bulk strange matter were stable.

    And Eric Penrose's new site just plays up the pseudo science more with the same tired techniques of quote-mining materials they show no hope of understanding. It's creationists and Luddites in love.

    Now Wagner has nothing to complain about since I presented his fractured filing in toto, verbatim. If there are five sentences in it that aren't rubbish, I can't find them.

  17. #337
    Please use Sugar Cane Alcohol Billy T's Avatar
    One of the lead-ion collisions at the LHC

    "... The Large Hadron Collider has successfully created a "mini-Big Bang" by smashing together lead ions instead of protons. … on 7 November. The experiment created temperatures a million times hotter than the centre of the Sun. …For the next four weeks, scientists at the LHC will concentrate on analysing the data obtained from the lead ion collisions.

    This way, they hope to learn more about the plasma the Universe was made of a millionth of a second after the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago. "This process took place in a safe, controlled environment, generating incredibly hot and dense sub-atomic fireballs with temperatures of over ten trillion degrees, … "At these temperatures even protons and neutrons, which make up the nuclei of atoms, melt resulting in a hot dense soup of quarks and gluons known as a quark-gluon plasma."… In the state known as quark-gluon plasma, they are freed of their attraction to one another. This plasma is believed to have existed just after the Big Bang.

    … by studying the {quark} plasma, physicists hoped to learn more about the so-called strong force - the force that binds the nuclei of atoms together and that is responsible for 98% of their mass. ..."


  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by billy t View Post
    one of the lead-ion collisions at the lhc

  19. #339
    You can see the level of detail CERN gets compared to RHIC, that picture of a QG plasma is much crisper and with a great many more tracks in it than the well known RHIC fireball picture.

  20. #340
    WOW, that's pretty cool stuff The so-called God Particle is going to be found then?

Tags for this Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts