Muslim Experience in America

[GeoffP]

I would be happy to provide statements from American officials that CAIR is indeed an "unindicted co-conspirator" with Hamas and others:

Prosecutors applied the label of "unindicted co-conspirator" to the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Islamic Society of North America, and the North American Islamic Trust in connection with a trial planned in Texas next month for five officials of a defunct charity, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development.

http://www.nysun.com/national/islami...ng-case/55778/

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which brands itself as a mainstream promoter of civil rights, has been named with two other prominent U.S. Islamic groups as an "unindicted co-conspirator" in a plot to fund the terrorist group Hamas.

Federal prosecutors also cited the Islamic Society of North America and the North American Islamic Trust as participants in a plot with five officials of the defunct Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, who go on trial July 16 in Dallas, the New York Sun reported.

CAIR is a spinoff of the defunct Islamic Association for Palestine, launched by Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzook and former university professor Sami al-Arian, who pleaded guilty last year to conspiracy to provide services to Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Several CAIR staffers have been convicted on terrorism-related charges, and CAIR founder Omar Ahmad allegedly told a group of Muslims they are in America not to assimilate but to help assert Islam's rule over the country.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56009

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...amic_Relations

So. The US has not denied CAIR's connection to terrorism. When one's organization is founded by the Brotherhood, how can such a connection be denied, really? Your continued support for CAIR is telling.

Geoff

[Buffalo Roam]

This from an occupier, who kills people for being different. In THEIR country. Sheesh.

Yes, a apt discription of the spread of Islam.

[DiamondHearts]

The Holy Land Foundation was charged on terrorism charges and its assets frozen because it gave aid to the Palestinians through the legally elected government of Gaza, Hamas. The US and US corporations are not allowed to engage in business with a US termed "state sponsor of terror."

Its as simple as that. Other notable "state sponsors of terror" include among others the governments of Iran, Syria, north Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba.

Whatever the US government decides as a "state sponsor of terror" is not always factual or correct. Many people in the worldwide community still have relations with Hamas, it is only because of Israeli pressure that the Holy Land Foundation was shut down. It is a black mark on US legal history.

You may call the FBI or any government organization to ask your questions about CAIR. I think you will be surprised by their answers.

[(Q)]

If anyone questions CAIR and says that CAIR sponsors terrorism. please provide proof, particularly from a government website.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...s/misc/109.pdf

[S.A.M.]

I would be happy to provide statements from American officials that CAIR is indeed an "unindicted co-conspirator" with Hamas and others:

last I heard Hamas was elected and the US supported an occupation of their country by the people who had kidnapped and imprisoned the elected parliament. I don't recall any law in the world that does not recognise the right to fight the occupation and oppression of your land. So who is the terrorist here? And who is the unindicted co-conspirator?

[GeoffP]

??? I think we just illustrated that, didn't we?

The Department of Treasury also reported that HLF funds were used by Hamas to support schools that served Hamas ends by encouraging children to become suicide bombers and to recruit suicide bombers by offering support to their families.

Trahan, Jason; Michael Grabell (2007-10-22). "Holy Land Foundation mistrial another misstep for U.S. government", The Dallas Morning News, The Dallas Morning News, Inc.. Retrieved on 2007-10-22.

When one considers the associations al-Arian and the rest have, it's little surprise, really.

[Mr.Spock]

the palestinians are the terrorists. they cant even stop fighting one another because the only emotion they have is hate.

besides, i thought jews should go back to europe, why cant they fight for their country?

[S.A.M.]

??? I think we just illustrated that, didn't we?

When one considers the associations al-Arian and the rest have, it's little surprise, really.

And? How does this change the fact that they are an elected government, with no army and under occupation? That they were kidnapped by an occupying military regime that has them imprisoned? So they are crappy leaders. Since when has that been the criteria for kidnapping an elected leader? Plenty of crappier leaders who are also invading others and killing millions. Compared to them, Hamas are rank amateurs. Their civilian toll is almost statistically insignificant, for both their own countrymen and the occupiers. Perhaps they could also receive a few warplanes with the capability of pounding civilians with a thousand pounds of ammo?

[(Q)]

I don't recall any law in the world that does not recognise the right to fight the occupation and oppression of your land.

That is assuming you know anything about law. Of course, you're free to find such a law that will support your usual brand of intellectual dishonesty and lies.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/la...ue04.htm#art41

So who is the terrorist here? And who is the unindicted co-conspirator?

Who is the fabrication artist? Who is the propagandist?

[S.A.M.]

That is assuming you know anything about law. Of course, you're free to find such a law that will support your usual brand of intellectual dishonesty and lies.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/la...ue04.htm#art41



Who is the fabrication artist? Who is the propagandist?

These laws all apply to the occupation force [all of which have been broken by Israel btw]
I don't see any law that says the occupied cannot fight back. Can you?

It is forbidden to compel the inhabitants of occupied territory to swear allegiance to the hostile Power.

[GeoffP]

And? How does this change the fact that they are an elected government, with no army and under occupation?

So back when CAIR was founded, they were an elected government? But weren't they founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, based in Egypt?

That they were kidnapped by an occupying military regime that has them imprisoned? So they are crappy leaders. Since when has that been the criteria for kidnapping an elected leader?

So it's all about Palestine? Why then are so many of CAIR's staff and ex-staff behind bars for independent convictions for supporting terrorism? You'd think that sort of HLF thing would be a one-shot deal, but it isn't. The same issue just keeps coming up. And then there's all those supremacist statements by CAIR officials - what's up with that? Surely they don't believe all those things? They're a moderate organization!

You know, like their founders, the Muslim Brotherhood. Or Islamic Jihad. Or, say...MPACUK. Soundvision. Et cetera.

[Buffalo Roam]

I don't see any law that says the occupied cannot fight back. Can you?

What about Islam? either become Moslem, or at best live the life of a Dhimmi, or die, at the whim of the Islamic Master.

Object to that fact and die under Islamic Law.

[GeoffP]

What can I say? I'm not trying to be pushy, but Buff has a good point here.

[Mr. G]

Barack Obama is not Muslim.

It is people like you and these racist Republicans who assign criminality based on religion.

You, and people like you, want others to believe that the majority of the Muslims are evil and need to be discriminated against.

Even though he isn't, if Obama was Muslim, what would be wrong with that?



Reality? What the heck are you talking about?

I think you are getting different groups mixed up in your comment.

Also, we are not talking about Iraq, we are talking about Muslims in America.

Israelis and Republicans, STOP TRYING TO DERAIL THIS THREAD.

MODERATORS, WHERE ARE YOU?

Umm, dude. I was responding to a moderator's post when you interjected your bigotry into our conversation.

Get real.

[DiamondHearts]

Umm, dude. I was responding to a moderator's post when you interjected your bigotry into our conversation.

Get real.

This is not the thread to discuss Iraq, go somewhere else.

Also, I hardly think that defending Muslims from discrimination and denial of human rights is bigotry.

Only in an upside-down Republican world, would a victim ever appear to be a criminal.

[Mr.Spock]

That is assuming you know anything about law. Of course, you're free to find such a law that will support your usual brand of intellectual dishonesty and lies.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/la...ue04.htm#art41



Who is the fabrication artist? Who is the propagandist?

you know this thread is about muslims in america in the end. somehow every thread about muslims end to israel and palestinians.

muslims in america are burning the american flag!

[DiamondHearts]

you know this thread is about muslims in america in the end. somehow every thread about muslims end to israel and palestinians.

Why do you wonder? It's because of you.

muslims in america are burning the american flag!

There are 7 million Muslims in America, how many did you say are burning American flags?

[John99]

DiamondHearts, do you have room to talk?

[Mr.Spock]

Why do you wonder? It's because of you.



There are 7 million Muslims in America, how many did you say are burning American flags?

7 million? wow that is a lot of muslims.

and its SAM fault not mine.

[DiamondHearts]

7 million? wow that is a lot of muslims.

and its SAM fault not mine.

You derailed this thread from post #2. Go somewhere else, preferably start your own thread.

Your only purpose here is to demonize innocent Muslim Americans. Your comments are hate. They are not welcome in an intellectual debate.