Thread: Muslim Experience in America

  1. #201
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike47 View Post
    The Christian terrorists went to Afghanistan and Iraq and are killing the poor who can not defend themselves
    Er..."Mike"...that's really not so and you know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    So? Who said Saddam has to follow the Australian way? Why? Did anyone invade Australia for making up their own rules of what constitutes their nation?
    As a tiny butt-in: so if Australia suddenly decides it doesn't want to follow anyone else's rules, no matter how fair and justified, that's ok also? So internationism should be a big free-for-all. Like domestic equity and human rights. Social Darwinianism.

  2. #202
    S.A.M:
    Who said Saddam has to follow the Australian way?
    Nobody. You originally claimed that the Iraqis hadn't invaded any countries. Several people on this thread then pointed out that the Iraqis invaded Kuwait.

    You have been caught out citing a factual inaccuracy, and you still haven't retracted said inaccuracy.

    Merely more evidence that you're the most dishonest poster on this forum.
    Last edited by lepustimidus; 08-10-08 at 08:58 PM.

  3. #203
    Erm, people, let's not lose sight of S.A.M's original comment, thanks. Don't allow her to derail this thread with a bait and switch. We're not arguing whether Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was justified, but whether they invaded in the first place.

  4. #204
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    How about the Iraqi invasion of Iran? That happened long before the invasion of Kuwait.

    Iran-Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes and fears of Shia insurgency among Iraq's long ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

  5. #205
    Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Medicine*Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    I've been more frequently set aside for security checks at American airports due to marks on the ticket. Its supposed to be random so either I'm just the lucky one everytime or the Muslim name makes it necessary. This has not happened outside the US, in Europe or Middle East and never in India.
    *************
    M*W: Why do you think this happens, S.A.M.?

  6. #206
    Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Medicine*Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    I like all my body parts firmly attached to me and functioning, thank you.
    *************
    M*W: Yes, and so do the Westerners who were beheaded by your friends. That's all fine and good, S.A.M., but what about all your religious cohorts who beheaded innocent people? Westerners? You cannot tell me that you were against their beheadings. You cannot tell me that you were not involved in their murders. You are definitely a part of the terrorism. It shames me to even communicate with you.

  7. #207
    Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Medicine*Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondHearts View Post
    One time, I saw some American inspection officers in UAE giving an old Desi women, she must have been 90 years old, a very rough time, they were pushing her and demanding her to answer their questions (she answered questions slowly because she was so old). Needless to say, more than 50 Pakistani and Arab passengers gathered around and began cursing the inspectors and yelling at them for mistreating an old woman. They had to close the terminal for a few hours to allow us to cool down because they were afraid of a riot.

    It's ridiculous how some people treat passengers (especially Muslims) as criminals, even while they have done nothing wrong.
    *************
    M*W: Guilty is as guilty does.

  8. #208
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DiamondHearts
    One time, I saw some American inspection officers in UAE giving an old Desi women, she must have been 90 years old, a very rough time, they were pushing her and demanding her to answer their questions (she answered questions slowly because she was so old). Needless to say, more than 50 Pakistani and Arab passengers gathered around and began cursing the inspectors and yelling at them for mistreating an old woman. They had to close the terminal for a few hours to allow us to cool down because they were afraid of a riot.

    It's ridiculous how some people treat passengers (especially Muslims) as criminals, even while they have done nothing wrong.
    American Inspectors in the United Arab Emirates?

    Now how does that work? the UAE has it's own Security Forces, and Police Forces, the U.S. doesn't have any Inspectors working as passenger security in the UAE, that is taken care of by UAE personnel.

    Your full of shit.

  9. #209
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    DiamondHearts is fundamentally (pardon the pun) incapable of honest discussion, so far as I can tell. I believe nothing emitting from him, and neither should anyone else.

  10. #210
    Registered Senior Member DiamondHearts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman View Post
    *************
    M*W: Why do you think this happens, S.A.M.?
    Bigotry, hatred, and prejudice. In essence it's wrong.

    I hope you are not attempting to justify discrimination against innocent Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman View Post
    *************
    M*W: Yes, and so do the Westerners who were beheaded by your friends. That's all fine and good, S.A.M., but what about all your religious cohorts who beheaded innocent people? Westerners? You cannot tell me that you were against their beheadings. You cannot tell me that you were not involved in their murders. You are definitely a part of the terrorism. It shames me to even communicate with you.
    What are you talking about? We had that nice conversation in the other thread, now what have you become?

    Is this the real way you look at Muslims? Do you blame all of us for crimes committed by others?

    This bigotry and hatred in the West is highly disturbing. This will be the end of everything America stands for.

    Once America starts to treats its innocent Muslim citizens with suspicion and hatred, they cannot be expected to be fair in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Since you blame all Muslims for crimes committed by criminals who call themselves "Muslim" in name only, then why should we not respond in kind.

    Two centuries of colonialism in the Muslim world, the enslavement and exploitation of millions of African Muslims, and the extermination of entire race of human beings. Is it fair for me to blame you for these crimes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman View Post
    *************
    M*W: Guilty is as guilty does.
    You are advocating abuse of elderly women because they happen to be Muslim?

    I'm tired of you. You obviously are devoid of any human understanding.

  11. #211
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post

    So how did the West influence this process at that time, since the family line in leadership continues to this day?
    How do you think Kuwait became a kingdom from a secular province? Who do you think decided the borders in the Middle East? Arming dictators and setting up puppet regimes is a specialty first of the British and later of the Americans.

    This paper chronicles critical chapters in the delimitation of Iraq's boundaries with Iran and Kuwait, paradoxically in the period preceding the Great War. For such territorial definition took place before the Iraqi state was even formed, yet it would create many of the strategic problems that Iraq has since faced with its two neighbors. Narrowing the Perso-Ottoman land frontier in the mid-19th century had been an Anglo-Russian project, though it was largely Britain's interests that proved conclusive in its final settlement in 1914. The discovery of oil in Persia in the first decade of the 20th century added a new dimension to settling the southern end of the frontier along the Shatt al-Arab river. Britain's interest in maintaining the Persian Gulf as a British lake in order to defend British India was the chief determinant of the contemporary territorial definition of Kuwait.
    http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...1schofield.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman View Post
    *************
    M*W: Yes, and so do the Westerners who were beheaded by your friends. That's all fine and good, S.A.M., but what about all your religious cohorts who beheaded innocent people? Westerners? You cannot tell me that you were against their beheadings. You cannot tell me that you were not involved in their murders. You are definitely a part of the terrorism. It shames me to even communicate with you.
    I don't recall electing the terrorists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medicine*Woman View Post
    *************
    M*W: Why do you think this happens, S.A.M.?
    Because Americans who arm dictators, train death squads, kidnap and torture foreign civilians in offshore prisons, destroy entire countries, send cluster bombs by express mail and kill millions, bleat when they get a blowback of two buildings and some thousand people?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffP View Post
    Er..."Mike"...that's really not so and you know it.



    As a tiny butt-in: so if Australia suddenly decides it doesn't want to follow anyone else's rules, no matter how fair and justified, that's ok also? So internationism should be a big free-for-all. Like domestic equity and human rights. Social Darwinianism.
    Sure, Americans do it all the time. Look at their kidnap and torture of civilians who are denied due process and set up in kangaroo courts.
    Last edited by S.A.M.; 08-11-08 at 12:45 AM.

  12. #212
    Registered Senior Member Tyler's Avatar
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    I've been more frequently set aside for security checks at American airports due to marks on the ticket. Its supposed to be random so either I'm just the lucky one everytime or the Muslim name makes it necessary. This has not happened outside the US, in Europe or Middle East and never in India.
    I'm a young, white male with a university education, mid-length hair, (usually) clean-shaven and neither fat nor thing. In short, I'm about as generic looking as you can get. Before I came to China I think the last 6 flights in a row I was on I was taken aside for a search of varying degrees of seriousness.

    I don't look like a hippy (drugs) or a terrorist (bombs).

    Luck of the draw.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    How do you think Kuwait became a kingdom from a secular province? Who do you think decided the borders in the Middle East? Arming dictators and setting up puppet regimes is a specialty first of the British and later of the Americans.
    Yes, but you claimed that it was the West who put the leadership of Kuwait into place..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    Westerners partitioning countries at whim and imposing their boundaries and puppet regimes on people is not incumbent on the people of any country.
    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=182
    And my question remains. What did the West have to do with the tribal migration of the people who are now occupying Kuwait...

    Kuwait was founded in the early eighteenth century by the Bani Utbah in the year 1705. Kuwait was then known as Guraine, the Bani Utbah established the town and port of guraine and called it Kuwait ("little fort," from kut, "fort", ultimately derived from Persian kud, meaning "city") In the first half of the eighteenth century, the great grandfather's of the Al-Khalifa, Al-Sabah, Al-Jalahma arrived at Kuwait.[1] They were desendants of the Anazia tribe who gradually migrated in the early eighteenth century from Nejd to the shores of the Persian Gulf. According to one local tradition, the Sabahs migrated south to flee drought in Najd in 1710, but found conditions bleaker. Finding conditions no better there, they finally migrated north to Kuwait where they found water and consequently settled. On the last leg of the journey they moved to the north and arrived at Kuwait in 1716. When they arrived at Kuwait, the great grandfather's of the Al-Khalifa, Al-Sabah, Al-Jalahma found a settlement by the Bani Utbah . Possibly the Bani Utbah had built a fortress from which the name Kuwait, a diminutive of kut or fortress, derives. Al Khalifa , Al-Sabah ,and Al Jalahma then entered under the umbrella of the Bani Utbah. They also raised the Al Sulaimi flag which belongs to the Bani Utbah .This flag was mentioned by lorimer in his gazetteer as being a stripped flag with four red stripes and 3 white stripes [2] The Bani Utbah migrated from Kuwait in 1732 to Zubarah and Furaiha in Qatar passing the torch to the Al Khalifa ,Al-Sabah,and Al Jalahma.
    So where does the West play into this when Al-Sabah became the first Emir of what is now known as Kuwait? How did the West plant the Al-Sabah line into power as a Western "puppet" since 1756?

  14. #214
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler View Post
    I'm a young, white male with a university education, mid-length hair, (usually) clean-shaven and neither fat nor thing. In short, I'm about as generic looking as you can get. Before I came to China I think the last 6 flights in a row I was on I was taken aside for a search of varying degrees of seriousness.

    I don't look like a hippy (drugs) or a terrorist (bombs).

    Luck of the draw.
    Heck, even Robert Spencer has been (might still be) on the no-fly list. Talk about misplaced security! But he just carries on. He'd rather that than the other, frankly, which is sensible.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondHearts View Post
    Two centuries of colonialism in the Muslim world, the enslavement and exploitation of millions of African Muslims, and the extermination of entire race of human beings. Is it fair for me to blame you for these crimes?

    What race?

    If your referring to Native Americans there's still some left.

    When will your shrill propaganda come to an end?

  16. #216
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    Yes, but you claimed that it was the West who put the leadership of Kuwait into place..


    And my question remains. What did the West have to do with the tribal migration of the people who are now occupying Kuwait...


    So where does the West play into this when Al-Sabah became the first Emir of what is now known as Kuwait? How did the West plant the Al-Sabah line into power as a Western "puppet" since 1756?
    Um by contravening the Anglo-Ottoman agreement and giving support to a "king"?

    Did you think the king was elected? Like Saddam in the 1950s? The modus operandi is the one they used to partition India for example, or Sudan. Arming and funding smaller groups to divide and rule.


    Kuwait's first contact with Britain occurred in 1775 when first plague, then the Persians,[citation needed] struck Basra and East India Company made arrangements to have the Persian Gulf-Aleppo Mail Service diverted through Kuwait.

    Also during this period, the British established a base in the region. The British became increasingly interested in Kuwait, and the Middle East in general, as the Germans made plans to extend their proposed Berlin-Baghdad railway into Kuwait, where they intended to locate a coaling station.

    In January 1899, Mubarak signed an agreement with the British which pledged that Kuwait would never cede any territory nor receive agents or representatives of any foreign power without the British Government's consent. In essence, this policy gave Britain control of Kuwait's foreign policy. The treaty also gave Britain responsibility for Kuwait's national security. In return, Britain agreed to grant an annual subsidy of 15,000 Indian rupees (£1,500) to the ruling family.
    Last edited by S.A.M.; 08-11-08 at 07:57 AM.

  17. #217
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Um by contravening the Anglo-Ottoman agreement and giving support to a "king"?

    Did you think the king was elected? Like Saddam in the 1950s? The modus operandi is the one they used to partition India for example, or Sudan. Arming and funding smaller groups to divide and rule.
    Sounds more like SAM, "modus operandi" spin, spin, spin, SAM's vision of history, Islam the Snow White Innocent, and the Black Witch West, the sum of all evil.

    It still comes down to the Fact that SAM, a Muslem, supports terrorism on the part of her religion, SAM is a active voice in that Terrorism, and a vocal supporter of the Violence as long as it is done in the Name of Mohammad.....Allah.......and Islam.

    SAM drinks the blood, and washes her hand daily in the Blood of Innocent Moslems, Westerners, and the Rest Of The World.

    SAM and Islam on Jihad, Jihad against the rest of the Worlds Religion, Jihad to bring the World under the law of Sharia' and into the Ummah.

    SAM on a HOLY JIHAD, in the Name of Her Religion, Islam the Innocent covered in the Blood of it's victims, all because they practice a different religion, now explain the Death of Muslems by Muslems?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Um by contravening the Anglo-Ottoman agreement and giving support to a "king"?

    Did you think the king was elected? Like Saddam in the 1950s? The modus operandi is the one they used to partition India for example, or Sudan. Arming and funding smaller groups to divide and rule.
    You tell me.

    From your quote:

    Kuwait's first contact with Britain occurred in 1775 when first plague, then the Persians,[citation needed] struck Basra and East India Company made arrangements to have the Persian Gulf-Aleppo Mail Service diverted through Kuwait.
    And yet..

    Around the middle of the eighteenth century a group of Arabs known as the Utub settled in Kuwait. This group was a part of the Anizah tribe from modern-day Saudi Arabia.

    It is believed the Utub came to Kuwait to escape a terrible drought that was decimating the Arabian peninsula. They and other inhabitants of Kuwait chose Sabah bin Jaber to be their ruler in 1756 and the little town at the head of the Arabian Gulf grew through trade, fishing and pearl diving to be one of the most prosperous in the region.

    From 1756 to the present, there have been thirteen rulers of Kuwait from the Al-Sabah family:
    http://www.arab.net/kuwait/kt_rulers.htm
    Kuwait's life is connected intimately with the Al Sabah, who have ruled Kuwait since 1756; the rule has alternated between the Jabir and Salim branches, descendants of two sons of the ruler Mubarak the Great.
    http://workmall.com/wfb2001/kuwait/k...roduction.html
    In 1756, the Utub elected Sabah I bin Jaber as the first emir of Kuwait. [11] The current ruling family of Kuwait, al-Sabah, are descendants of Sabah I.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait
    So, if as your link states, Kuwait's first contact with the British did not occur until 1775, how exactly did the West install the Al-Sabah line into power as its "puppet" from 1756?

    And wasn't the Ango-Ottoman Agreement signed in the early 1900's? 1913 or 14 or something the like?
    Last edited by Bells; 08-11-08 at 08:55 AM.

  19. #219
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DiamondHearts
    Two centuries of colonialism in the Muslim world, the enslavement and exploitation of millions of African Muslims, and the extermination of entire race of human beings. Is it fair for me to blame you for these crimes?
    Which race was exterminated by the west?

    In the Name of Islam:

    A HIGH-RANKING commander who armed and led Janjaweed militiamen in attacks on hundreds of villages in Darfur has come forward to say he did so at the behest of the Sudanese Government. Prosecutors at the International Criminal Court are today expected to take a significant step towards putting Sudan’s leaders on trial by presenting evidence against the President, Omar Hassan al-Bashir. As the lawyers pursue a case against the country’s rulers in Khartoum, some of the most damning evidence yet that the killing was directed by the Government has been provided by Arbab Idries, who was a commander between 2003 and 2007. An estimated 300,000 black Africans have died in ethnic massacres in Darfur at the hands of Arabic-speaking militias,
    Ex-commander links Khartoum to massacres

    THE HAGUE, Netherlands, July 13 (UPI) -- Prosecutors say a former Janjaweed militiaman is readying testimony placing responsibility for mass killings in Darfur on the Sudanese government.

    Arbab Idries, described as a key Janjaweed commander between 2003 and 2007, will draw a direct link between Darfuri ethnic massacres and government leaders in Khartoum at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, The Daily Telegraph reported Sunday.

    The court is hearing evidence on whether to bring war crimes charges against Sudan President Omar Hassan al-Bashir and is expected to render a decision soon. One strand of evidence will be provided by Idries, the British newspaper said. In a filmed interview with a British journalist, he described how he was told by a senior government official to recruit Islamic Arabic speakers from the north of Sudan, and then led 5,000 Janjaweed horsemen in a campaign against blacks who did not share their religion.

    Idries admitted his troops raped women, and killed old people and children, the Telegraph said. International researchers estimate 300,000 black Africans died in the Darfur massacres, which the United States has labeled genocide.
    Idries, described how he was told by a senior government official to recruit Islamic Arabic speakers from the north of Sudan, and then led 5,000 Janjaweed horsemen in a campaign against blacks who did not share their religion.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    Sounds more like SAM, "modus operandi" spin, spin, spin, SAM's vision of history, Islam the Snow White Innocent, and the Black Witch West, the sum of all evil.

    It still comes down to the Fact that SAM, a Muslem, supports terrorism on the part of her religion, SAM is a active voice in that Terrorism, and a vocal supporter of the Violence as long as it is done in the Name of Mohammad.....Allah.......and Islam.

    SAM drinks the blood, and washes her hand daily in the Blood of Innocent Moslems, Westerners, and the Rest Of The World.

    SAM and Islam on Jihad, Jihad against the rest of the Worlds Religion, Jihad to bring the World under the law of Sharia' and into the Ummah.

    SAM on a HOLY JIHAD, in the Name of Her Religion, Islam the Innocent covered in the Blood of it's victims, all because they practice a different religion, now explain the Death of Muslems by Muslems?
    Do you have anything beside fairytale analogies and biased websites ?.

    People die because something are worth dying for, some aren't. Some deaths are preventable others aren't. Most of the deaths caused by terrorism were preventable. I'm not assuming that we can keep everyone happy, but we can reduce their chances of getting killed.

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