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Thread: Bible Contradictions 1

  1. #61
    Registered Senior Member Myles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godslave View Post
    Simple: God didn't. Based on the theories of evolution, The Einstein Factor, plus when you actually sit down and read through the New & Old versions of Genises in the "Holy" Bible, you will notice many scientific contradictions. Not just Biblical.

    During University I majored in Religious Philosophies. I've studied all kinds of religions from Christianity, Buddhism, Satanism, Thelema, Hindu and loads more; and I honestly have to say, none of the above listed religious philosophical texts have as more contradictions than those of the Christian religion. Christianity is a joke.

    Many have attemped to validate the Christian theories; but have unearthed nothing but rube fooling, besmirching and pseudo-intellectual brain-farts from people deemed 'loyal' to another. Contradiction in that: In the Bible it states "One cannot serve God & Man" - thus; the very beginning and the end of it is full of more contradictions than any other that I have witnessed.

    Religion itself provides a cover for the masses; it's something for the sheep of society to use as a scapegoat - to use as an excuse to not accept the consequences and responsibilities of one's own behaviour, decisions, and actions. 'God' never existed, and never will. But even I remain open-minded enough to understand that we have yet to discover the Universe, so anything is still possible.

    However in the meantime I will look more at Science for the answer as to whether "God" exists or not. So far, Intel tells me: He does not, and never did, exist.
    My own sentiments entirely but I am interested to see the lengths to which some people will go to justify their absurd beliefs.

    On another thread I found that one person lied about what was in the Bible. He had made a small addition to suit his purpose. I checked the King James version, the Vulgate and the original Greek without finding what I had been told was there. When I asked for the source containing the addition, I was not given one.

    I think evangelism relies on people's ignorance for whatever success it may have

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles View Post
    What value have pigs ?
    Pigs in the wild turn the earth over and are quick to scavenge dead animals. pigs are like vultures quickly removing what others leave behind.

    There are probably other values pigs have that i do not know about.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles View Post
    So are you saying yhat god created people without knowing they would become sinners?
    No. God knew that men would choose rebellion over eternal life. But it was their free willed decision that caused them to lose eternal life. God created them with the ability to say Yes or No to satan but they said yes to satan and no to God.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  4. #64
    Registered Senior Member Myles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    No. God knew that men would choose rebellion over eternal life. But it was their free willed decision that caused them to lose eternal life. God created them with the ability to say Yes or No to satan but they said yes to satan and no to God.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
    If he KNEW how they were going to behave, then he left them no choice; hence no free will. Can you not see that ?

    So if we accept your interpretation, an omnipotent, omniscient god created people he knew would sin so that he could punish them for all eternity. That seem to me to be a bit like pulling wings off flies.

  5. #65
    The most likely progenitor for the pig-taboo is that it crept into judeo-islamic mythology through necessity at one point but as a means of defining a culture at a later, more sustained point.

    Pigs compete with humans for resources since they eat essentially the same things. In an arid environment during times of low agricultural productivity, the pig would have been costly to maintain. Ovicaprids like sheep and goats, on the other hand, eat very little of the same things that people eat (grasses and shrubs mostly), but produce milk, cheese, and wool without the necessity for slaughter. The pig must be slaughtered to utilize it as a resource and the meat must be well-cooked or trichinosis can be contracted from eating the cysts of Trichinella spiralis, a worm that infects wild and domestic swine.

    Recognizing that costs outweigh benefits, rural and often nomadic populations put a taboo on raising swine for consumption. Since the more cosmopolitan populations along the coastal regions of the Levant didn't need such taboos (pigs made efficient waste disposal tools -and still do), they continued to raise and process swine. It wouldn't have taken long to identify culturally as a population that ate pork vs. one that didn't, thus creating a cultural disparity that was useful in self-identification as well as discriminating between cultures.

    Of course, the superstitious members of these Bronze (and, later, Iron) Age cultures assigned the swine rule to "divine guidance" rather than simply the culturally evolved idea that it actually is.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles View Post
    If he KNEW how they were going to behave, then he left them no choice; hence no free will. Can you not see that ?
    No, you are totally and utterly wrong. Just because someone can see the future decision someone else will make does not mean that they forced that decision from that person. That person lives in the moment and has freedom in the moment to decide what they will decide. God who exists independent of time knows the beginning and the end all at one time and therefore can pre-determine who will have eternity with Him and who will have eternity in the lake of fire.


    So if we accept your interpretation, an omnipotent, omniscient god created people he knew would sin so that he could punish them for all eternity. That seem to me to be a bit like pulling wings off flies.
    But we all sin, therefore sin in itself is not what causes one to have eternity in the lake of fire. One must sin and also reject the atonement provided by the Messiah Jesus to be cast into the lake of fire.

    It is not sin but it is ones attitude to sin that leads one to salvation or damnation.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  7. #67
    Registered Senior Member Myles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    No, you are totally and utterly wrong. Just because someone can see the future decision someone else will make does not mean that they forced that decision from that person. That person lives in the moment and has freedom in the moment to decide what they will decide. God who exists independent of time knows the beginning and the end all at one time and therefore can pre-determine who will have eternity with Him and who will have eternity in the lake of fire.




    But we all sin, therefore sin in itself is not what causes one to have eternity in the lake of fire. One must sin and also reject the atonement provided by the Messiah Jesus to be cast into the lake of fire.

    It is not sin but it is ones attitude to sin that leads one to salvation or damnation.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
    I don't understand your answer because you seem to be agreeing with me. If god pre-determines who will end up where, then we have no choice. So the question remains. why does he create people he knows will go to hell?

  8. #68
    No, you are totally and utterly wrong. Just because someone can see the future decision someone else will make does not mean that they forced that decision from that person.
    Fine. In saying, why not just create a being that you know is not going to choose to listen to satan? He still has his free will but will never choose to listen to the snake and thus this whole problem could have been avoided. No people burning for eternity, no god having to suicide himself etc etc.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myles View Post
    I don't understand your answer because you seem to be agreeing with me. If god pre-determines who will end up where, then we have no choice. So the question remains. why does he create people he knows will go to hell?

    Your not listening to my answer. Your focus is on putting forward your thinking.

    As it has always been, People who place the most mental effort in putting forward their views have little or no mental fuel left to listen to and digest the views of others.

    What i have said is clear and is clearly different from what you are saying. You cannot or will not listen to the thoughts i have to share with you because you’re too intent on getting your thoughts across.

    Moving on to the next part of this discussion with you is pretty pointless unless you understand what i am saying.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  10. #70
    solanaceous common tater Spud Emperor's Avatar
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    *Devils advocate*
    Shit, that was more delightfully contoversial than intended ( I love Freud)

    It really appears that you're the one not understanding.
    Yes it apperas that God likes pulling the wings off flies. ( nice analogy.)

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeLord View Post
    Fine. In saying, why not just create a being that you know is not going to choose to listen to satan? He still has his free will but will never choose to listen to the snake and thus this whole problem could have been avoided. No people burning for eternity, no god having to suicide himself etc etc.
    LOL How can a person be free when they are locked in to obedience to God????

    Only when someone has the freedom to reject the will of God can they also have the freedom to accept the will of God.

    I believe Gods will is to have people who will follow Him because they want to rather because they are forced to. I believe He places great value on such people.




    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  12. #72
    solanaceous common tater Spud Emperor's Avatar
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    And pulls the wings off the other angel refuters.

  13. #73
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud Emperor View Post
    *Devils advocate*
    Shit, that was more delightfully contoversial than intended ( I love Freud)

    It really appears that you're the one not understanding.
    Yes it apperas that God likes pulling the wings off flies. ( nice analogy.)
    Oh i understand the thinking of myles and many others who have commented on this particular facet of God knowing the future eternal destination of all people even before they where born. I myself came to the same conclusion when i was reading the Bible. It is a thinking that is locked into the time restraints of the universe and cannot comprehend that God could be totally free of such restraints and could in fact exists totally outside time in another time not bonded or geared in any ratio to our time.

    I guess it is something that only the Holy Spirit can give one understanding on.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  14. #74
    solanaceous common tater Spud Emperor's Avatar
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    Aaahh!
    It all makes sense now.

    /pulls own wings off

  15. #75
    LOL How can a person be free when they are locked in to obedience to God????
    Your not listening to my answer. Your focus is on putting forward your thinking.

    As it has always been, People who place the most mental effort in putting forward their views have little or no mental fuel left to listen to and digest the views of others.

    What i have said is clear and is clearly different from what you are saying. You cannot or will not listen to the thoughts i have to share with you because you’re too intent on getting your thoughts across.

    Let's make this easy:

    - This god of yours created Adam and Eve
    - This god of yours had full knowledge that they would listen to the snake and cause the fall of mankind through their own choice.
    - Even though this god of yours had that knowledge it does not prevent their free will.

    So now..

    - This god of yours creates Bob and Jane
    - This god of yours has full knowledge that they wont listen to the snake and wont cause the fall of mankind through their own choice.
    - Even though this god of yours has that knowledge it does not prevent their free will.

    Same situation, different outcome. To argue against this you must argue against your own claims, (that full knowledge of an outcome does not prevent free will).

    He knows their choice before they even exist, but it doesn't mean they didn't choose. That is your argument, and yet here you are arguing against your own argument.

    Only when someone has the freedom to reject the will of God can they also have the freedom to accept the will of God.
    Ok.. and they still have that freedom just like Adam and Eve had the freedom to listen to god but chose not to. Instead Bob and Jane had the freedom not to listen to god but chose to.

    Listen to my statement.

  16. #76
    Valued Senior Member Jan Ardena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godslave View Post
    Simple: God didn't. Based on the theories of evolution, The Einstein Factor, plus when you actually sit down and read through the New & Old versions of Genises in the "Holy" Bible, you will notice many scientific contradictions. Not just Biblical.

    During University I majored in Religious Philosophies. I've studied all kinds of religions from Christianity, Buddhism, Satanism, Thelema, Hindu and loads more; and I honestly have to say, none of the above listed religious philosophical texts have as more contradictions than those of the Christian religion. Christianity is a joke.

    Many have attemped to validate the Christian theories; but have unearthed nothing but rube fooling, besmirching and pseudo-intellectual brain-farts from people deemed 'loyal' to another. Contradiction in that: In the Bible it states "One cannot serve God & Man" - thus; the very beginning and the end of it is full of more contradictions than any other that I have witnessed.

    Religion itself provides a cover for the masses; it's something for the sheep of society to use as a scapegoat - to use as an excuse to not accept the consequences and responsibilities of one's own behaviour, decisions, and actions. 'God' never existed, and never will. But even I remain open-minded enough to understand that we have yet to discover the Universe, so anything is still possible.

    However in the meantime I will look more at Science for the answer as to whether "God" exists or not. So far, Intel tells me: He does not, and never did, exist.
    Firstly, how is 'satanism' a religion, other than it may be given 'religion' status by a government?
    Secondly, if you believe God never existed, and never will, therefore only a figment of imagination intended to be used as a scapegoat, "to use as an excuse to not accept the consequences and responsibilities of one's own behaviour, decisions, and actions." . Why look to science for the answer as to whether He exists or not?

    Just curious.
    Jan.

  17. #77
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeLord View Post
    Your not listening to my answer. Your focus is on putting forward your thinking.

    As it has always been, People who place the most mental effort in putting forward their views have little or no mental fuel left to listen to and digest the views of others.

    What i have said is clear and is clearly different from what you are saying. You cannot or will not listen to the thoughts i have to share with you because you’re too intent on getting your thoughts across.

    Let's make this easy:

    - This god of yours created Adam and Eve
    - This god of yours had full knowledge that they would listen to the snake and cause the fall of mankind through their own choice.
    - Even though this god of yours had that knowledge it does not prevent their free will.

    So now..

    - This god of yours creates Bob and Jane
    - This god of yours has full knowledge that they wont listen to the snake and wont cause the fall of mankind through their own choice.
    - Even though this god of yours has that knowledge it does not prevent their free will.
    What am i supposed to be arguing against here?

    Same situation, different outcome. To argue against this you must argue against your own claims, (that full knowledge of an outcome does not prevent free will).

    He knows their choice before they even exist, but it doesn't mean they didn't choose. That is your argument, and yet here you are arguing against your own argument.

    Only when someone has the freedom to reject the will of God can they also have the freedom to accept the will of God.
    How am i arguing against my statement here? Your not making sense at all.

    Ok.. and they still have that freedom just like Adam and Eve had the freedom to listen to god but chose not to. Instead Bob and Jane had the freedom not to listen to god but chose to.

    Listen to my statement.
    I have and your statements make no sense at all. They do not even make atheistic sense.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  18. #78
    What am i supposed to be arguing against here?
    Now now, enough with the diversionary tactics. I contend that you know and understand full well what is being said. However, I shall put it in even simpler terms for you:

    god created Adam and Eve knowing that they would sin. Why not just create different people that he knew wouldn't?

    The issue came with you contending that they would apparently "be locked in to obedience with god", but this is not so - they merely chose to be. god's knowledge of that doesn't, (in your argument), mean they have no free will.

    god created Adam knowing specifically that he would sin. Instead why not create a being that he specifically knew wouldn't? What has changed? How is the second person any more "locked" than the first?

    I have and your statements make no sense at all.
    It makes perfect sense. If you contend otherwise you should attempt a little more than just saying so. Explain where you think the issue is.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeLord View Post
    Now now, enough with the diversionary tactics. I contend that you know and understand full well what is being said. However, I shall put it in even simpler terms for you:

    god created Adam and Eve knowing that they would sin. Why not just create different people that he knew wouldn't?

    The issue came with you contending that they would apparently "be locked in to obedience with god", but this is not so - they merely chose to be. god's knowledge of that doesn't, (in your argument), mean they have no free will.
    No Adam and eve did not choose to be. They chose to accept satans lie and rebel. Have you not read the Bible?

    god created Adam knowing specifically that he would sin. Instead why not create a being that he specifically knew wouldn't? What has changed? How is the second person any more "locked" than the first?



    It makes perfect sense. If you contend otherwise you should attempt a little more than just saying so. Explain where you think the issue is.
    Because God knew that Adams rebellion would serve His eternal purpose. He did not create Adam to rebel but created Him with free will so that the path of rebellion was possible. But still in the end it was Adams decision to rebel.

    Adam was not locked, I have not stated that He was. I stated if God removed their free will to rebel then they would have been locked.

    Please try to read what i am saying before replying.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

  20. #80
    No Adam and eve did not choose to be. They chose to accept satans lie and rebel. Have you not read the Bible?
    Context. I am not saying they 'chose to be' as in chose to exist, but 'chose to be' as in chose to be... obedient to.

    So, they are not locked in obedience, they chose to be.. in obedience. Come on, are you doing this just to avoid the point?

    Because God knew that Adams rebellion would serve His eternal purpose. He did not create Adam to rebel but created Him with free will so that the path of rebellion was possible. But still in the end it was Adams decision to rebel.
    So god created a being that would sin vs one that wouldn't.. because that was what he, (god), wanted? I have no quarrel with that.

    Adam was not locked, I have not stated that He was. I stated if God removed their free will to rebel then they would have been locked.

    Please try to read what i am saying before replying.
    I didn't say he was, I said the second person would be no more 'locked' than the first person, (ergo not locked).

    Please try to read what I am saying before replying.

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