Bible Contradictions 1

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Myles, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Once again Adam and Eve DID NOT Choose to be Obedient to the will of God. They chose rebellion. :bugeye:

    Avoiding the point??? your point is that Adam and eve where obedient... I am not avoiding it I am telling you flat our straight that they where NOT OBEDIENT.

    This discussion is surreal.


    What are you arguing here? Are you arguing like me that people are not locked? We seem to be having an argument where we both trying to convince each other that we agree "that they where not locked"



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe they just didn't like the idea of being gods pets. I wouldn't either.
     
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  5. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    All due respect but perhaps you should take some of your own advice, (listening etc), and apply it.

    I am not saying that Adam and Eve were obedient, you are clearly aware of this and are simply distracting the issue from the actual issue. I have put it to you several times now and yet you continue on some weird irrelevancies that weren't actually said, indeed the excuse could only seemingly come from someone either devoid of intelligence or someone trying to distract the issue.

    Here it is again:

    god created Adam and Eve knowing full well that they would choose to sin/disobey.

    Why instead would he not create Ben and Jane who would choose to not sin/to obey and thus avoid all the issues that have come from his decision?

    You contended earlier that these people, (Ben and Jane), would be "locked into obedience", that they would have no choice or free will. I have explained several times now why that is in error unless you would also assert the same for Adam and Eve. I said they would be no more 'locked' than Adam and Eve but for some reason you have completely pulled that apart and tried to make up new meaning for it.

    god created two beings specifically knowing they would choose to sin. Why not create two beings that he specifically knew would choose not to sin? Free will is still intact and countless billions don't burn. It's a win win situation.

    Do you understand what is being said now? Should I draw a picture perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2008
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  7. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Ok.

    People burn because they sin AND reject the will of God, Not just because they sin. God has provided a way for sinners to have their sins atoned for through the Messiah.

    When you said why did God not create two people who would obey Him, you are saying that God could have controlled the future decision of the free willed people he created. Once God created two free willed beings the ball was in their court, Once the creation ball was rolling He could not bring it back. God could not simply bring to an end the existence of Adam and eve and try again until he got two individuals who would make the right decision. Because God is Just and loving toward His creation and both Adam and eve have the opportunity to have eternity with God.

    I believe once someone exists they will exist forever. therefore God would not desire to cease the existence of anyone. Irrespective of their response to His will.

    I also believe that the universe was created by God as a place where God and satan could demonstrate to the heavenly host their claims. Creation serves Gods greater purpose, I do not believe God created the universe as the centre of His purpose. Creation is a tool that serves His purpose, the universe in itself is not the main game. The main Game is in Heaven not on earth. And it is a game that God has already Won.


    Your whole question seems to be based on the belief that God could just wipe His first creation and keep on making new ones until he got the right result. But wiping creation would be both against Gods Love for His creation and Would show the heavenly host a victory for satan over the will of God. In the long run all that has happened in creation will demonstrate both the righteousness of Gods will and the falseness of satans claim. All things work towards the ultimate good.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Day



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  8. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Yeah they where proud alright.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  9. Myles Registered Senior Member

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  10. sowhatifit'sdark Valued Senior Member

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    No, no. The resentful humble are the ones with the worst pride. They often build religions around their hate and fear.
     
  11. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    But isn't that just what he did when he sent the deluge. The fact that Noah and his family were spared is beside the point. And what about all those animals who didn't get into the ark ? Were they also sinners ?

    None of this makes any sense to me[/QUOTE]

    Noah and His family is not beside the point. But irrespective of that side issue:

    None of the people who died in the flood ceased to exist. They all still exists. And i believe salvation was opened to them upon the antonment of the Messiah Jesus.

    1 Peter 3
    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  12. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    Right, the question still stands.

    No more so than with Adam and Eve. When he set about with his decision to creat certain beings, he knew every little and final detail of their existence - including how they would act and behave. There are no surprises for him, merely an absolutely inevitable and unavoidable outcome that he is fully aware of before he even went about shaping the clay that made them. Every thought of theirs, every decision, everytime they took a pee - all completely known before the act.

    So where do you contend the difference is in making Ben and Jane instead? He would still know every little detail, every thought, every action. They would still be making their own choices, have their own free will just like Adam and Eve. The only difference would be the outcome.

    This god entity made a conscious willed decision to create these two specific beings. He could have made that same decision but instead created Ben and Jane and avoided the eternal burning of many billions sometime far in the future.

    He wouldn't have to bring an end to the existence of Adam or Eve unless of course he rolled a dice or flipped a coin and saw what version of a being popped out - but that cannot be argued given his omniscience. He knew exactly what kind of being he was going to poop out and he made the choice to make that exact kind of being.

    So we are here to witness cosmic ego at work? A perfect entity would not have need or want for such petty nonsense.

    Only a complete blithering twonk sets up the game board knowing he's already won. It comes down to nothing more than showing off.

    Incorrect, they need not have been created in the first place, much like Adams first wife Lilith. This god knew exactly what type of being it would create. Every thought, feeling, action, their behaviour and so on and so forth. If you contend that god had no idea, he just lumped together some clay and that was that then fine. The minute it is asserted that god is omniscient is the minute this comes into play because he made the decision to make a being that would sin and reject as opposed to one that wouldn't. In both cases free will would remain intact, one would just lead to a lot less burning.

    1) He "wiped" every single living thing on the planet bar a small handful, (mainly for sacrificial purposes).

    2) That the mass majority will burn in hell is clearly a victory for satan.

    What claim of satans was false?

    The majority burning in a pit of fire forever and ever... That's good? :bugeye:
     
  13. Reiku Banned Banned

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    11,238
    I agree. The pit is analogy... nothing more and nothing less. What the nature of this analogy is, is certainly now up for debate. I see it as the ancients had. Fire cleanses, and through fire will only our souls be cleansed.
     
  14. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    Noah and His family is not beside the point. But irrespective of that side issue:

    None of the people who died in the flood ceased to exist. They all still exists. And i believe salvation was opened to them upon the antonment of the Messiah Jesus.
    1 Peter 3
    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

    Sounds like another miracle; they drowned but they did not die. How was salvation open to them when it was only Noah and family who knew when the flood was coming ?
     
  15. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

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    1,509
    Remember that after the Jews were rescued from Babylon by the Persians, in exchange for the Jews opening up a Gate or two (and this was clearly after the Jews had been given every right of Citizen in Babylon... making their betrayal a shameful act of treachery for those who had tried to show the Jews some Good Will... a recurring mistake in History for anybody who does so... just refer to America that has been dragged down to next to ruin because of its Alliance with the Jews). Anyway, the Persian rewarded the Treason of the Jews by giving them many thousands of Sheep and Goats, and they were given an Army Regiment of Persian Regulars to escort them back to Old Judea. The People of Judea, who had since the Babylonnian Captivity, reestablished themselves (only the Rich Classes had been taken to Babylon, as hostages to Peace) were invaded and subjugated by the Persian Military and handed over to their Jewish Clients, who had hundreds of thousands head of sheep and goat to sell.

    Read the Bible and we find that the Jews Returning to Babylon FOUND a LOST Scripture which included all the Works regarding Moses (before Babylon, absolutely NO Jewish Literature refers to Moses or to Egypt... the Jews in Babylon BORROWED that entire Chapter for their 'History' because it seemed so fascinating to them. The Wealthy Jews from Babylon actually DESIGNED and WROTE a Religion. Anyway, since they had so many Sheep and Goats to sell, and since they had a Regiment from the Persian Army to enforce their dictates, they OUTLAWED PORK in order to raise the price of MUTTON.

    God had nothing to do with it... which is nearly always the case when we discuss the actions of Jews.
     

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