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Thread: Wikipedia protest shutdown

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Asguard View Post
    I don't know if Giambattista is talking about the same thing but personally I lost all respect for copy write for the music industry after the case against men at work. An american company who didn't even acquire the rights to this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrTb...eature=related until quite recently took men at work to court for copywrite violation for a song written AGES ago and now get 90% of the royalties for what amounts to less than 1% of the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrTb...eature=related (its only the flute section which was found to be "copied"). The women who actually WROTE the song obviously didn't even CARE that her work was used assuming it was because SHE never took them to court when it first came out
    Too bad you can't get your facts right.

    An Australian Federal Court ruled against Men at Work for clearly stealing the distinctive flute riff used in the song and not compensating the author.

    BUT even so, they only have to pay 5% of royalties.

    And only on royalties since 2002.

    Seems reasonable.

    Unlike your claim that they were losing 90% and leaving out that it was only royalties since 2002.

    Since it was a number 1 song back in 1983, this is NOT a huge payout to the owners of the original song's copyright.

    http://www.boisestatepublicradio.org...opyright-suit/
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-19-12 at 08:28 AM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Giambattista View Post
    Arthur is likely temptation free as far as music piracy,
    Yes, I happen to think it's right to pay artists for their creative efforts and that it is wrong to buy or sell copies of their work for which they aren't compensated.

  3. #103
    I find it fascinating that a song writer gets paid forever for there work and yet the guy who invented CD players is probably getting nothing because EVERYONE can make CD players (same goes for movie studios and DVD players). Further more on DVDs specifically, ever herd of "free trade". I as a consumer have a right to buy an item at the lowest cost even if that means importing it from another country. Region locking of DVDs, Bluerays and Games inhibits this right. So basically, your going to fuck with my rights and try to charge me twice as much as I could get it from in say the US (LEGALLY, through somewhere like Amzon) then fuck you Im going to feel no guilt when I download it.

  4. #104
    Nope, Copyright doesn't last forever and the inventor of the CD player owns the patent for 20 years.

    As to Region codes, sure you want to rationalize why you are stealing, go ahead, but you are still stealing.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Nope, Copyright doesn't last forever and the inventor of the CD player owns the patent for 20 years.

    As to Region codes, sure you want to rationalize why you are stealing, go ahead, but you are still stealing.
    A company in breach of the trade practice act is required to pay HEAVY fines to there customers (look at the QANTAS case, the Visi case etc), the ACCC has innumberable times stated that region locking is a restriction in trade which is illegal under the Trade practices act. The fact that the government has chosen not to prosecute is irrelevant.

  6. #106
    Registered Senior Member
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    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    listening to people who understand the ACTUAL problem [.....] That was it's intent when it was proposed.
    No, it wasn't. They listened to people who understand how to make money by maintaining a system of near indentured servitude for the artists and a system of rental disguised as ownership for the fans of those artists.

    If they had listened to people who understand the actual problem they wouldn't have come up with a law that was impossible to implement in the real world. And I don't just mean heavily biased towards achieving tangential aims such as censorship, curtailing free speech and preventing progress in the fields of content delivery. I mean literally impossible to implement fairly or legally.

    Not to mention the proven mathematical impossibility of preventing unauthorised copying. If a medium can be decoded for consumption it can necessarily also be copied.

    There are proven ways to reduce piracy, so the people who designed and support the act are either blithely unaware of them or intentionally ignoring them because they threaten their anti-competitive and exploitative way of doing business. And just because anti-competitive behaviour and exploitation are loosely enforced (if at all), it doesn't mean everyone should wholeheartedly get behind laws which claim to do one thing but actually just shore up a given unsustainable business model.

    It's bullshit, and even it's supporters wouldn't believe it if it didn't come from fellow corporate fascists.

    The bill will do more harm to non-pirates than it will pirates, and while pirates will easily adapt (because the methods used were proven time and again through theory and practice to be ineffective against the simple expedient of programmers using logic and math), the non pirates will be saddled with the burden of paying for redundant and ineffectual systems of protectionism.

  7. #107
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    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    but you are still stealing.
    "Stealing" does not have the same meaning as "license infringement". Stealing deprives the rightful owner of their property.

    The mafiaa like to conflate the terms, but they know, and you know, and I know, that they are not the same thing.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    "Stealing" does not have the same meaning as "license infringement". Stealing deprives the rightful owner of their property.

    The mafiaa like to conflate the terms, but they know, and you know, and I know, that they are not the same thing.
    "licence infringement" as Asguard described it, where instead of buying the DVD he pirated the video and indeed enjoyed the work that it took to make the DVD, did in fact cheat the people who produced the DVD were entitled to.

    You just want to quibble on the term used to describe this though.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    There are proven ways to reduce piracy, so the people who designed and support the act are either blithely unaware of them or intentionally ignoring them because they threaten their anti-competitive and exploitative way of doing business.
    So what are these proven ways that were ignored?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    No, it wasn't. They listened to people who understand how to make money by maintaining a system of near indentured servitude for the artists and a system of rental disguised as ownership for the fans of those artists.

    If they had listened to people who understand the actual problem they wouldn't have come up with a law that was impossible to implement in the real world. And I don't just mean heavily biased towards achieving tangential aims such as censorship, curtailing free speech and preventing progress in the fields of content delivery. I mean literally impossible to implement fairly or legally.

    Not to mention the proven mathematical impossibility of preventing unauthorised copying. If a medium can be decoded for consumption it can necessarily also be copied.

    There are proven ways to reduce piracy, so the people who designed and support the act are either blithely unaware of them or intentionally ignoring them because they threaten their anti-competitive and exploitative way of doing business. And just because anti-competitive behaviour and exploitation are loosely enforced (if at all), it doesn't mean everyone should wholeheartedly get behind laws which claim to do one thing but actually just shore up a given unsustainable business model.

    It's bullshit, and even it's supporters wouldn't believe it if it didn't come from fellow corporate fascists.

    The bill will do more harm to non-pirates than it will pirates, and while pirates will easily adapt (because the methods used were proven time and again through theory and practice to be ineffective against the simple expedient of programmers using logic and math), the non pirates will be saddled with the burden of paying for redundant and ineffectual systems of protectionism.
    You know at one stage they wanted to ban lending books, so if you owned a book and you let anyone else read it you were a criminal. Supposedly because there were 6 people living in our house we were supposed to buy 6 copies of Harry Potter. How they expected to enforce this is beyond me

  11. #111
    Registered Senior Member
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    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    I happen to think it's right to pay artists for their creative efforts and that it is wrong to buy or sell copies of their work for which they aren't compensated.
    Many of them aren't compensated for their studio work. At least, not in the sense of earning a positive amount of money based on the work they do. By this point it may even be most of them. Artists make their money from concerts, guest appearances, merchandise and peripheral earnings. Many artists who go "gold" end up broke or in debt to the distributor.

    If you had, for a change, been interested in having your knee jerk assumptions challenged, or even just collecting enough information to make a fair and balanced appraisal of the situation, you could easily read any of the articles written by actual content creators (creators, not distributors) about that very subject.

    It's been common knowledge and a virtually unanimous belief among those you were sanctimoniously affecting to defend for decades. Probably longer, but the artists I know or have read about weren't around then.

    So how about, before you go shooting off at the mouth, you trouble yourself to actually find out about the thing you've chosen to be contrarian about. I mean, everyone needs a hobby, that's fine, but at least give yourself a fighting chance.
    Last edited by michael_taylor; 01-19-12 at 09:33 AM. Reason: shpelling

  12. #112
    Again, what are these proven ways that you claim were ignored?

    http://a2im.org/2012/01/18/a2im-on-c...ht-protection/

    http://www.allianceofvisualartists.com/ <== supports SOPA

    http://www.afm.org/ <== supports SOPA

    http://www.publishers.org/ <== supports SOPA

    http://www.aimp.org/ <== supports SOPA

    3M Company
    ABRO Industries, Inc.
    Acushnet Company
    adidas America
    Advanced Medical Technology Association (AdvaMed)
    Allen Russell Photography
    Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers
    Alliance of Visual Artists (AVA)
    Altria Client Services
    American Apparel and Footwear Association
    American Association of Independent Music (A2IM)
    American Board of Internal Medicine
    American Federation of Musicians
    American Gramaphone LLC
    American Made Alliance
    American Mental Health Counselors Association
    American Photographic Artists
    American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
    American Society of Media Photographers
    American Society of Picture Professionals
    American Watch Association
    Anatoly Pronin Photography
    Andrea Rugg Photography
    Anti-Counterfeiting and Piracy Initiative (ACAPI)
    Applied DNA Sciences
    Art Holeman Photography
    Association of American Publishers (AAP)
    Association of Equipment Manufacturers
    Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP)
    Association of Test Publishers
    AstraZeneca plc
    Australian Medical Council
    Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association
    Baker & Taylor Ent.
    Bay State Psychological Associates
    Beachbody, LLC
    Beam Global Spirits & Wine
    Blue Sky Studios, Inc.
    Bose Corporation
    Braasch Biotech LLC
    Brian Stevenson Photography
    Brigid Collins Family Support Center
    Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI)
    Burberry
    C. F. Martin & Co., Inc.
    Callaway Golf Company
    Cascade Designs Incorporated
    Caterpillar Inc.
    Caveon, LLC
    CBS Corporation
    Cengage Learning
    Center for Credentialing & Education
    Center Stage Photography
    CFA Institute
    Chanel USA
    Christopher Semmes Photography
    Church Music Publishers Association
    CMH Images
    Coach
    Coalition Against Counterfeiting and Piracy (CACP)
    Columbia Sportswear Company
    Comcast Corporation
    Commercial Photo Design
    Commercial Photographers International
    Comprehensive Adult Student Assessment System
    Consumer Healthcare Products Association
    Copyright Alliance
    Copyright Clearance Center (CCC)
    Coty Inc.
    Council of Fashion Designers of America
    Country Music Association
    CropLife America
    Cross-Entertainment LLC
    CSA Group
    CVS Caremark
    Dan Sherwood Photography
    Danita Delimont Stock Photography
    Dayco Products, LLC
    Deluxe Entertainment Services Group
    Dennyfoto
    Derek DiLuzio Photography
    DeVaul Photography
    Direct Selling Association (DSA)
    Directional Insight
    Distefano Enterprises Inc.
    Doriguzzi Photographic Artistry
    Dolby Laboratories, Inc.
    Dolce & Gabbana USA, INC.
    Dollar General Corporation
    Don Grall Photography
    Dunford Architectural Photography
    Eagle Rock Entertainment
    Ed McDonald Photography
    Educational & Industrial Testing Service
    Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Electronic Components Industry Association (ECIA)
    Eli Lilly and Company
    Englebert Photography
    Entertainment Software Association (ESA)
    ERAI, Inc.
    Eric Meola Studio Inc
    Evidence Photographers International Council
    Exxel Outdoors
    FAME Publishing Co., LLC.
    FAME Recording Studios
    Far Bank Enterprises
    Fashion Business Incorporated
    Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy
    Fender Musical Instrument Company
    Footwear Distributors & Retailers of America (FDRA)
    Ford Motor Company
    Fortune Brands, Inc.
    Fred J. Lord Photography
    GAR Associates
    Gelderland Productions, L.L.C.
    Gemvision Corporation
    Gibson Guitar Corp.
    GlaxoSmithKline
    Gospel Music Association
    Governors America Corp.
    Graphic Artists Guild
    Greeting Card Association (GCA)
    Greg Nikas Photography
    Guru Denim
    H.S. Marketing & Design, Inc.
    Harley-Davidson Motor Company
    HarperCollins Publishers
    Harry Fox Agency
    Hastings Entertainment, Inc.
    ICM Distributing Company, Inc.
    IDS Publishing
    IEC Electronics corp.
    Images Plus
    Imaging Supplies Coalition (ISC)
    Independent Distributors of Electronics Association (IDEA)
    INgrooves
    Innate-gear
    International AntiCounterfeiting Coalition (IACC)
    International Trademark Association (INTA)
    IPC-Association Connecting Electronics Industries
    Ira Montgomery Photography
    J.S. Grove Photography
    James Drug Inc.
    Jaynes Gallery
    JCPage Photography
    Jean Poland Photography
    Jeff Stevensen Photography
    John Fulton Photography
    John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
    Johnson & Johnson
    Juicy Couture, Inc
    Julien McRoberts Photography
    K&R Photographics
    kate spade
    Kekepana International Services
    Kenneth Garrett, photographer for National Geographic
    Killing Jar Productions LLC
    Lacoste USA
    Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.
    Lexmark International, Inc.
    Light Perspectives
    Linda Olsen Photography
    Little Dog Records
    Liz Claiborne, Inc
    L’Oréal USA
    Lucky Brand Jeans
    LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton
    Macmillan
    Major League Baseball
    Marcia Andberg Associates LLC
    Mark Niederman Photography
    Marmot
    Marona Photography
    McLain Photography Inc
    Merck & Co., Inc.
    Messy Face Designs, Inc.
    Michael Stern Photography
    MicroRam Electronics, Inc.
    Minter Works of Art
    Mira Images
    Monster Cable Products, Inc.
    Moose’s Photos
    Morningstar Films LLC
    Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA)
    MotionMasters
    Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association
    MPA – The Association of Magazine Media
    Mr. Theodor Feibel (sole proprietor)
    Music Managers Forum-U.S.
    Nashville Songwriters Association International
    Natalie Neckyfarow Actor/Dancer/Singer
    National Association of Broadcasters
    National Association of Manufacturers
    National Association of Recording Merchandisers (NARM)
    National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO)
    National Basketball Association (NBA)
    National Board for Certified Counselors
    National Board for Certified Counselors Foundation
    National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA)
    National Football League (NFL)
    National Music Publishers’ Association (NMPA)
    National Retail Federation (NRF)
    NBCUniversal
    Nervous Tattoo Inc., dba Ed Hardy
    New Balance Athletic Shoe, Inc.
    New Era Cap Co Inc
    New Levels Ent. Co. LLC
    News Corporation
    Next Decade Entertainment, Inc.
    NHL Enterprises, L.P.
    Nicholas Petrucci, Artist, LLC
    Nike, Inc.
    Nintendo of America Inc.
    Nissle Fine Art Photography
    North Dakota Pharmacists Association
    North Dakota Pharmacy Service Corporation
    Oakley, Inc.
    One Voice Recordings
    OpSec Security, Inc.
    Outdoor Industry Association
    Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI)
    Outdoor Research, Inc
    Pacific Component Xchange, Inc.
    Party Killer Films LLC
    Pearson Clinical Assessment
    Peavey Electronics Corporation
    Perry Ellis International
    Personal Care Products Council
    Peter C. Brandt, Architectural and Fine Art Photography
    Peter Hawkins Photography, Inc.
    Petzl America
    Pfizer Inc.
    PGA of America
    Philip Morris International
    Photojournalist Dave Bartruff
    Picture Archive Council of America (PACA)
    Pigfactory Music
    PING
    PNW Images
    Premier League
    Production Music Association (PMA)
    Professional Photographers of America
    Quality Float Works, Inc.
    Raging Waters Music
    Ralph Lauren Corporation
    Ramsay Corporation
    Rebel Photo
    Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)
    Red4 Music/Doogs Rock Inc
    Red Wing Shoe Company
    Reebok International Ltd.
    Reed Elsevier Inc.
    Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA)
    Revlon
    Richard Flutie Photography
    Rite Aid
    Robin Davis Photography, Inc.
    Rodger Scott Craig, a member of Liverpool Express, The Merseybeats, Fortune, Harlan
    Cage, 101 South, and Mtunz Media
    Roger Smith Photography Services
    Rolex Watch USA Inc.
    Romance Writers of America (RWA)
    Rosetta Stone Inc.
    Saddle Creek
    Sage Studios LLC
    Sam D’Amico Photography
    Schneider Electric
    Sean McGinty Photography
    Secret Sea Visions (Photography)
    SESAC, Inc.
    SG Industries, Inc.
    Shure Incorporated
    SIGMA Assessment Systems
    Six Degrees Records
    Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council
    SMC Entertainment
    SMT Corp.
    SoBe Entertainment
    Society of Sport & Event Photographers
    Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA)
    Sony Electronics Inc.
    Sony Music Entertainment
    Sony Pictures Entertainment
    Soul Appeal Records and Music
    SoundExchange
    Southern Gothic LLC
    Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)
    SPI (The Plastics Industry Trade Association)
    Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association
    Sports Rights Owners Coalition
    Spring Fever Productions LLC
    Spyder Active Sports, Inc
    Stenbakken Photography
    Stephen Dantzig Photography
    Stock Artist Alliance
    Stuart Weitzman Holdings, LLC
    Student Photographic Society
    Studio 404
    SunRise Solar Inc.
    Taylor Glenn Photographs
    Taylor Made Golf Company, Inc.
    Tednologies, Inc.
    The Cambridge Don
    The Collegiate Licensing Company/IMG College
    The Donath Group, Inc.
    The Dow Chemical Company
    The Estee Lauder Companies
    The McGraw-Hill Companies
    The Music People! Inc.
    The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)
    The Recording Academy (National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences)
    The Timberland Company
    The Walt Disney Company
    Tiffany & Co.
    Time Warner Inc.
    Tony Bullard Photography
    Toshiba America Business Solutions, Inc.
    TRA Global
    Tricoast Worldwide
    Trio Productions, Inc. / Songscape Music,
    Twist & Shout, Inc.
    U.S. Chamber of Commerce
    Ultimate Fighting Championship
    Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
    Universal Music Group
    Uniweld Products Inc.
    VF Corporation
    Viacom
    Vibram USA, Inc
    Virtual Chip Exchange USA, Inc.
    Voltage Pictures, LLC
    W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
    Walcott Studio, LLC
    Wal-Mart
    Warner Music Group
    Wendy Kaveney Photography
    Western Psychological Services
    Westmorland Images, LLC
    Wild & Associates, Inc.
    Wild Eye Photos LLC
    William Sutton Photography
    Willis Music
    WindLegends Ink LLC
    Winestem Company
    Winslow Research Institute
    Wolfe Video
    Wolverine World Wide, Inc.
    Woolrich, Inc.
    World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc.
    Xerox Corporation
    Zippo Manufacturing Company
    Zumba Fitness, LLC

    etc etc etc
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-19-12 at 09:33 AM.

  13. #113
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    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    So what are these proven ways that were ignored?
    You mean to say you didn't even try to find out? Quelle fucking surprise.

    The first and most obvious one is to invest in content delivery systems which are actually useful and convenient to people, instead of investing in making them less useful and less convenient in the idiotic belief that inconvenience will stop criminals. It won't. If anything it encourages them.

    Look at the the biggest competitors for online piracy; systems like steam or kontiki or netflix.

    Another option (not one I expect the distributors to ever accept) is to produce high quality content that people want to consume without having to be prompted, rather than concentrating on lowest common denominator rubbish and then having shove it down people's throats by deluging everyone (but especially the young) with advertising.

    Yet another option is to put some of the lawyers fees and politicians bribes into actually catching the people who rip and upload, rather than the technologies which are used to do it with (since it's impossible to make a computer which can't be used for that and have it still be a computer.)

    Yet another option is to be honest about what people are buying when they license content, to make sure they understand that they don't own it in any legal sense.

    There are plenty of ways, (if those several aren't enough of an answer to your appeals to ignorance, let me know and I'll give some more) but unfortunately most of them don't protect the distribution cartel's untenable business model, so they are unlikely to gain broad adoption until the situation reaches a head.

  14. #114
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    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Again, what are these proven ways that you claim were ignored?
    I was getting to that. Thinking takes longer than regurgitating foxnews style propaganda, so I'm at a disadvantage from the point of view of speed.

  15. #115
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post

    [... distributors...]
    Then why pretend to be on the side of the content creators?

    Why don't you and the cartel just say "we support whatever is most profitable, and we don't care if it's the people doing the work who get the profit."

    It might not be popular, but at least it's not a premeditated lie designed for emotional manipulation to distract from the actual issue.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    You mean to say you didn't even try to find out? Quelle fucking surprise.

    The first and most obvious one is to invest in content delivery systems which are actually useful and convenient to people, instead of investing in making them less useful and less convenient in the idiotic belief that inconvenience will stop criminals. It won't. If anything it encourages them.
    Total BS
    They already exist.
    Anyone can search for and legally buy any content they want to with almost no effort at all.

    Another option (not one I expect the distributors to ever accept) is to produce high quality content that people want to consume without having to be prompted, rather than concentrating on lowest common denominator rubbish and then having shove it down people's throats by deluging everyone (but especially the young) with advertising.
    What's that argument:
    It's ok to steal, that will teach them to make better quality stuff?

    Actually just BS, the content is already high quality.
    The music and movie industry is vibrant.

    Yet another option is to put some of the lawyers fees and politicians bribes into actually catching the people who rip and upload, rather than the technologies which are used to do it with (since it's impossible to make a computer which can't be used for that and have it still be a computer.)
    Yet nothing in SOPA does anything to any piece of computer hardware.

    Yet another option is to be honest about what people are buying when they license content, to make sure they understand that they don't own it in any legal sense.
    Not sure that's a problem.
    Sure isn't to the people running the offshore sites making money from pirating content. They are quite aware of what they are doing.

    There are plenty of ways,
    And yet you didn't come up with one concrete way of doing anything to actually stopping piracy.

    Indeed everything you posted is oriented on simply convincing people not to do it.

    As you can see from Asguard's post, that doesn't work because he claims he has a right to do so.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    Then why pretend to be on the side of the content creators?

    Why don't you and the cartel just say "we support whatever is most profitable, and we don't care if it's the people doing the work who get the profit."

    It might not be popular, but at least it's not a premeditated lie designed for emotional manipulation to distract from the actual issue.
    BS, many of them were groups of content creators.

    The point is that it is broadly supported by content creators.

  18. #118
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    [spam]
    So if there are 350 (heavily interconnected) companies whose management either support or don't openly oppose SOPA, how many does that leave?

    I mean, there must be at least 355 companies in America. What? More than that? By orders of magnitude?

    Oh but there's no point looking at them because they don't regurgitate the right brand of corporate fascism? Right you are.

  19. #119
    yes if they are willing to flaunt the law to make money, why should I care about THEIR feeling?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by michael_taylor View Post
    So if there are 350 (heavily interconnected) companies whose management either support or don't openly oppose SOPA, how many does that leave?

    I mean, there must be at least 355 companies in America. What? More than that? By orders of magnitude?

    Oh but there's no point looking at them because they don't regurgitate the right brand of corporate fascism? Right you are.
    Not every company is affected by SOPA, the ones that support it are the ones directly affected.

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