Thread: Wikipedia protest shutdown

  1. #321
    peripatetic artisan parmalee's Avatar
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    1,970
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    The POINT of his article is be wary of the big labels, they will screw you.
    And if you acknowledge this, why are you insistent upon saying that you "support the artists" by supporting SOPA? Read your own freakin' lists: the parties who support SOPA are largely the major labels, the RIAA, etc.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    http://www.imaginelaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1181372.html

    So THAWK, back in your court.

    Cite a case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy.

    more red herrings
    we deal with movie dvds and you shill karoake?
    why do you waste my fucking time?

    However, of the media for which there are exceptions allowing personal use copies, Karaoke CDGs are closest in format and in form to pure digital music. The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, (" AHRA ") represented a compromise among the competing commercial interests involved in the music industry, in which consumers received a specific exemption from infringement for copying digital music for personal use:

    This legislation clearly endorses and allows the copying of digital musical recordings (i.e., CDs and Digital Audio Tapes) for personal use. The single court that has discussed the AHRA in any detail has reaffirmed that non-commercial copying of a digital musical recording, to whatever format, is expressly allowed by the AHRA, and that is in fact one of the main purposes of the AHRA.



    wtf?
    focus!

  3. #323
    peripatetic artisan parmalee's Avatar
    Posts
    1,970
    As to the importance of contracts: I would agree, when dealing with considerable volume. Most musicians are not selling 50 thousand or 100 thousand units per release, and neither do they especially care--unless they're in it for the money or the fame.

    Moreover, artists who sell only a few thousand, or even just a few hundred, per title oftentimes make more money than major label artists. And their audiences tend to be more loyal, less inclined towards pirating their work, etc.

    I never said that contracts were pointless.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    more red herrings
    we deal with movie dvds and you shill karoake?
    Nope, it's a digital copy of a work. The law doesn't change because of what the content that is being copied represents.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by parmalee View Post
    And if you acknowledge this, why are you insistent upon saying that you "support the artists" by supporting SOPA? Read your own freakin' lists: the parties who support SOPA are largely the major labels, the RIAA, etc.
    So?

    Am I supposed to think that Major labels are suddenly bad?

    But regardless, so does http://a2im.org/ which is supporting the independent artists.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Nope, it's a digital copy of a work. The law doesn't change because of what the content that is being copied represents.

    yes it does
    the dvd was born with encryption
    it is an entirely different beast

    you refuse to understand this because you are hellbent on justifying your criminal acts, right?

    mr dotbiz's memoirs were published today... "how my children led me into a life of crime"

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Cite a case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy.
    define "backup copy" and "copy"
    define those 2 terms for me.

  8. #328
    peripatetic artisan parmalee's Avatar
    Posts
    1,970
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    So?

    Am I supposed to think that Major labels are suddenly bad?

    But regardless, so does http://a2im.org/ which is supporting the independent artists.
    Do you simply take everything at face value? If an organization says that they "support" independent musicians, why then, certainly they must--right?

    A2IM isn't terribly popular amongst many, and perusing their list of "labels" I noticed Allegro Media Group--they're not a freakin' label, they're a distributor. And I only know this because one of my labels had a deal with them a number of years back, and they really fucked us over.

    I don't have anything against distributors, in general, but the fact is: the further removed from the creators of the "product" something is, the greater for the potential to be fucked over. My experiences with labels have always been good. My experiences with distros have been good and bad. Consequently, I'm disinclined to take any such entity at it's word when it says it "supports" something--you always have to look into these matters.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by parmalee View Post
    Do you simply take everything at face value? If an organization says that they "support" independent musicians, why then, certainly they must--right?
    So show actual evidence that they don't support independent musicians, since that's what they seem to be all about.

    I'm disinclined to take any such entity at it's word when it says it "supports" something--you always have to look into these matters.
    Absolutely.
    And I'm not just taking their word for it.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by leopold View Post
    define "backup copy" and "copy"
    define those 2 terms for me.
    Nothing really, except what you do with it.

    If you make a copy and sell or give that copy away, then it isn't a back up copy for personal use and you are infringing.

    You can use the back up copy as your primary source, and not use the original though (which is what I do for the copies I make of my Audio CDs as the conditions in a car are not conducive to long life of CDs)

    Court rulings on Fair use also allow you to put a copy on multiple devices, so you can legally copy your digital data to your I-pod as well as your computer.

  11. #331
    more disingenuous conflation by adoucette

  12. #332
    What's a matter Gustav, can't find a single case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy of a DVD?

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    What's a matter Gustav, can't find a single case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy of a DVD?

    maintaining a red herring

    5 over the speed limit is typically neither ticketed nor persecuted. it is the defacto speed limit but not the legal one

    you can be persecuted but are not
    convention is not the law

    furthermore what is the premise here?
    if x law has never been used in a court case, it is null and void?
    it does not exist?
    Last edited by Gustav; 01-23-12 at 04:02 PM.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    maintaining a red herring

    5 over the speed limit is typically neither ticketed nor persecuted. it is the defacto speed limit but not the legal one

    you can be persecuted but are not
    convention is not the law
    Really?

    If no one is ever prosecuted for something it's real hard to argue that that action is against the law.

    You might consider that when they set the speed limits on roads they are aware of the leeway that the police give.

    Like when they wrote the DMCA they were aware of the leeway given for personal backups by US Copyright law.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post

    Like when they wrote the DMCA they were aware of the leeway given for personal backups by US Copyright law.

    for the 1000th time... not if it involves circumventing copyright protection schemes by the general public. it is why you can safely backup an audio cd but not a movie dvd

    you lack analytical skills and sorely deficient in both nuance and sophistication

  16. #336
    Funny, I safely do both.

    What's a matter Gustav, STILL can't find a single case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy of a DVD?

    LOL
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-23-12 at 04:29 PM.

  17. #337
    Registered Senior Member Hellenologophobia's Avatar
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    158
    “This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works.”

    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

    DVDs are entirely different. Have you ever copied a DVD for personal use?

    http://www.dailytech.com/US+Court+Ru...ticle15969.htm

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenologophobia View Post
    “This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works.”

    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

    DVDs are entirely different. Have you ever copied a DVD for personal use?

    http://www.dailytech.com/US+Court+Ru...ticle15969.htm
    No, DVDs aren't different.
    The laws don't specify content.

    We've been over the Patel ruling:

    The court appreciates Real’s argument that a consumer has a right to make a backup copy of a DVD for their own personal use… While it may well be fair use for an individual consumer to store a backup copy of a personally-owned DVD on that individual’s computer, a federal law has nonetheless made it illegal to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies.


    So while Patel ruled against RealNetworks, it didn't say that making a back up copy wasn't fair use.

    Same question to you: Can you find a single case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy of a DVD?

    And yes, I make copies for back up purposes because I have had originals become unplayable (or in other cases, playable but with bad sections) I also am a major time shifter in that I use a DVR to record material from both network and pay channels and then I burn them on to DVD-Rs so that I can watch them at my leisure (the DVR has limited storage). I have 3 tuners and a priority recording device (puts network shows over shows that run the same episode multiple times) so I typically record many new shows that I may never actually watch.
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-23-12 at 05:40 PM.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Funny, I safely do both.

    What's a matter Gustav, STILL can't find a single case where someone was found guilty of making a back up copy of a DVD?

    LOL
    would you like to volunteer?
    go to the mpaa with a copy of one of their movies and the software used to hack into the copy protection.

    they will take you to court

    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    So while Patel ruled against RealNetworks, it didn't say that making a back up copy wasn't fair use.

    nor did it say it was

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    would you like to volunteer?
    go to the mpaa with a copy of one of their movies and the software used to hack into the copy protection.

    they will take you to court
    Not likely.

    The DMCA was passed 12 years ago.
    If the MPAA was going to sue someone or a DA was going to charge someone with this they would have done it by now.

    Face it Gustav, you simply haven't been able to find a DA anywhere in the country, for over a decade since the law was passed, who reads the DMCA the way you do. Most apparently understand the concept of Fair Use and that personal backups fall within that concept.

    So the net is you are just arguing that the letter of the law says that making a copy for a personal backup is illegal even though you can't find anyone in a legal capacity to enforce the law who adheres to that overly-broad interpretation.
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-23-12 at 05:44 PM.

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