09-14-11, 09:47 PM #1
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (cold fusion)
For those interested and following the Cold Fusion story there was an update today with the release of photos and videos.
Andrea Rossi has invented a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) device. He gave many public tests and allowed chemists to examine his work, however he did not release details on the catalyst he used to give Nickel Powder its extra edges.
This Machine is called the e-cat, short for Energy Catalyser.
Andrea Rossi is producing this technology in America and Greece at its start up, and the first intention is to release operational power plants as proof.
This will be terribly exciting news for many as an e-cat in your car type technology will take 600 million cars off the road within the next ten years.
Today they have released these videos and photos, and the unveiling is supposed to be on schedule for a October launch.
The above is the newly released video and photos...
Here is a video of the (newer version) e-cat recorded last week on September 7th running in self sustained mode.
also here is additional info,
here is a slow moving at start video about the research process
Now for Sceptics.......
Your opinion on this is most assuredly called for. How else can we present a breakthrough without all the "when pigs fly" comments. However many of you may find these new videos interesting so I am risking the ridicule for whoever may appreciate it.
Remember though, this plant is scheduled to be running next month, and there is too much media coverage nowadays to simply expect this technology to disappear. Merry Christmas all!
09-14-11, 11:02 PM #2
Nonsense, they would not sell a product that isn't understood by the public, much less sell them without patent protection!
09-14-11, 11:07 PM #3
I've been following this story from the beginning, see prior threads on "cold fusion Rossi" here on Sciforums.
I have come to believe it is a scam and at this point still do. His new device ways much more than prior ones per output capacity, just as he decided to demonstrate a no input power continous run. Which makes me believe he has added something to allow for additional run time withput input where it was not needed before.
However, I keep an open mind. If you have followed this since the beginning the strange behavior, inconsistent comments from Rossi, his past etc all lead to the rug getting pulled out at some point.
If he is not BS-ing everyone he certainly acted in such a way to make us believe he was BS-ing everyone.
We will see, of course I sincerely hope it turns out to be real.
09-14-11, 11:14 PM #4Nonsense, they would not sell a product that isn't understood by the public
09-14-11, 11:16 PM #5
There are regulations though. Where are the patents? No one in their right mind would sell such a thing without heavy international patent protection, or someone would just steal it.
09-14-11, 11:32 PM #6
The original partners in the development of Rossi's cold fusion have already pulled out.
You might note that just about EVERYTHING favorable that you can link to will ultimately lead back to pronouncements from Rossi's own website.
09-14-11, 11:48 PM #7
09-15-11, 01:11 AM #8
lol.. Rossi's original partners did not pull out.. Far from the facts; as they are in reverse. Anyways there is now a video of the power plant, and videos of it running.
I am not looking to convert any sceptics (heaven forbid), but these videos were released today and thought a few people might take a gander.
Rossi is hardly a criminal mastermind and even got arrested once for not paying duty on gold, a crime committed by hundreds daily. He has also been in trouble with a process to turn waste into oil. He had the method, but nobody wanted to pay too much for the oil, so the waste was left in containers. This if anything shows that he was an environmental chemist from back in the day.
They are still on schedule to reveal the working plant at the end of next month. The shipping containers are a great idea, and will allow them to be shipped worldwide.
The only patent problems pending from what we have heard is that the patent department says cold fusion is impossible so cannot be true. Obviously they will not proceed without legal protection, although i am sure many companies will start producing "fakes" within a few months.
09-16-11, 07:46 AM #9
For those following this the videos attached in the first post and several of the videos attached here on this page are newly released.
I believe anybody "following" this news will see that there has been a considerable amount of testing and acceptance over the summer.
One of the videos even shows the unit running for a prolonged period self sustained.
I hope someone finds this information fun.
09-16-11, 08:34 AM #10
I remember the Fleishman and Ponds experiment, many years ago.
I was younger then, of course, and thought it might be true.
Now I am older, I am sceptical.
Let's hope I can be wrong twice!
The reason why I am particularly doubtful is that there are experiments that could have easily been made on a small scale which would have measured the input to the device and the output, without anyone needing to know any secrets. Just put the whole thing into a Calorimeter, provided by someone else.
James Randi perhaps.
Unless it ran on nuclear power, which could be easily detected, any clandestine source of power would run out within a few days.
Why were these experiments not made?
If they had been, and were proved successful, these current experiments would not be being carried out in a shipping container, but in the world's best facilities.
My prediction is that it will turn out to be neither fraud nor a success, but end in failure as a work of self deception, and an example of human weakness.
I think that the scientists, brilliant though they probably are, are avoiding carrying out experiments which would prove them wrong.
If however, it is myself who is wrong, I will begin a month of celebration.
I'm on a no loser.
Last edited by Captain Kremmen; 09-16-11 at 08:43 AM.
09-16-11, 08:46 AM #11
I am not wanting to go back in time to pons Fleischmann, even though todays breakthroughs are thanks to those experiments.
Apparently; the U.S. navy has had luck reproducing Pons/Fleischmann.
This technology today looks a lot more straightforward and cheaper.
article from navy
09-16-11, 08:56 AM #12
1. What makes you say that the current Rossi experiment had any input from the F&P experiments?
Unless you mean by example.
2. What do you think regarding the core of my doubts, expressed below?
That definitive experiments could have been carried out without revealing any sensitive commercial data.
09-16-11, 09:18 AM #13
Andrea Rossi explains how the Pons/Fleischmann experiments influenced him. He draws lines between their work as he progressed.
As far as the definitive experiments being carried out without revealing any sensitive data, I am unsure what experiments we are talking about.
Andrea Rossi has show his cold fusion device running unassisted in the link I provided at the start of this thread. I think anybody willing to reproduce the work of Pons/Fleischmann could manage to get descriptions of their work.
There are many articles published on this new technology. Many still believe it is a pipe dream, but I think there has been too much independent verifications and valid demonstrations in front of trusted and renowned chemists.
search for "andrea Rossi" "e-cat" "energy catalyser" "LENR" "Cold Fusion" on google and you will find many results.
NASA is involved in the testing, and some speculate they will be behind the unveiling in October.
If it suddenly becomes truth at the end of October we will soon have 600 million gas guzzling cars off the road within 5-10 years.
You will be able to heat your home for dollars per year once an e-cat is installed and paid for.
Nickel is the fifth most common element on the planet and we would likely never run short for many centuries.
Cold fusion releases no pollution or radiation. It does during its change, but nothing permanent to the environment.
09-16-11, 09:24 AM #14
That paper was 9 years ago.
What has come of it?
Although funding for Cold Fusion ended several years ago, progress in understanding the phenomenon continues at a much slower pace, mostly through the unpaid efforts of dedicated inquisitive scientists.
It is time that this phenomenon be investigated so that we can reap whatever benefits accrue from additional scientific understanding. It is time for government funding organizations to invest in this research.
09-16-11, 09:45 AM #15
Yeah! I wasn't sure about the validity of those claims. I do think Andrea Rossi has got something though. There is too much moopla by respected chemists to be fraudulent. Even if it were fraudulent I do not see how he would expect to make money off it? He has been spending his own money so far, and Nytechniks involvement supposedly is not as a sponsor.
Also Piantelli is claiming he is doing similar "warm" fusion.
09-16-11, 09:47 AM #16
Simplicity itself. You put the whole apparatus inside a closed box that will measure energy input and output. What happens in the apparatus would not matter.
If excess energy is produced, it would be recorded.
Doubters might say that the excess energy was produced in the apparatus by nuclear power, or from batteries, either of the standard kind, or some other chemical reaction.
If it was from nuclear power, the signature radiation would be found.
If it was argued that the machine itself produced such energy, a core sample of the machine could be taken. Again no secrets divulged.
With a battery, the output would last a few days or weeks at most.
On the other hand, if it does work, we are looking at an invention along the lines of fire or the wheel.
It would be that revolutionary, no pun intended.
Last edited by Captain Kremmen; 09-16-11 at 10:00 AM.
09-16-11, 10:28 AM #17
What is a video supposed to prove? They have energy inputs in terms of electrical resistance (heat), and hydrogen gas. I could also heat up something and let it run by itself for an hour or so.
09-16-11, 11:43 AM #18
09-16-11, 12:37 PM #19
There were about 4-6 videos produced when he announced the E-cat in January. I can't see how a scam would work here? The world has seen snake oil salesmen before, and if it is based on fraudulent claims then he'd probably get sued for more than he was worth.
However since about the end of April or whenever the last independent chemists were able to operate the device they have been pretty quiet about what is going on, and had released no videos.
This technology (if real) will change many many many ways on how we live life.
Imagine buying a car that NEVER needs fuelling. You just buy and drive. That would be possible. It is clean energy as well.
It would be the greatest invention since the computer, and will save millions of lives.
This is supposed to be shown to us at the end of October.
Anyways; I am excited about the prospect. I believe I have been following this closer than most and have seen most of the arguments pro and con. Every scientist who has inspected it believes it is the real deal, including the head of the Swedish Sceptics Society.
Some well known players were present during the test. These include Andrea Rossi (the inventor of the E-Cat), Professor Sergio Focardi, Dr. David Bianchini, and of course Dr. Giuseppe Levi. Two guest observers were also present. One of the guest observers was Hanno Essen, associate professor of theoretical physics at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology. He is also the chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society. The other guest observer was Professor Sven Kullander of Uppsala University. He is also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences Energy Committee.
I know The Swedish are not considered the good old U.S.A., but they are not idiots.
Some say Andrea Rossi is a criminal because he got busted importing Gold from another country. I'd say what kind of criminal mastermind would get arrested for something that hundreds of people do everyday. It is not exactly a difficult crime to pull off. So I don';t think he is a mastermind of criminal intent.
Another thing he was involved in that seemed nefarious was that he was part of a project that was supposed to change waste chemicals into oil. Well oil prices dropped and the chemicals were left sitting in leaky containers and Italy had to fork out 50 million to clean up the mess.
To me this means that he was a good chemist with environmental interests back in the day. It is not something he planned.
There are many world renowned scientists saying this is the real deal.
Now the videos I posted in the first thread are the first videos since about May, and they show an almost complete plant in one, and an e-cat running under its own power (self sustained for first time) for a prolonged period.
Does not conform to ‘known’ fusion rules
Public demos have been demos – never proof
Most outsiders with access have restrictions imposed
Andrea Rossi has a past open to attack
The money involved is big-big-big
Two people given passive access were not impressed
Most mainstream scientists do not believe that LENR is real
Some supporters of LENR are wary of believing
Contradicting statements among main players
Mainstream media is curiously silent
LENR is almost certainly real
Prof Focardi published promising Ni-H results long before working with Andrea Rossi
Prof Piantelli (Focardi’s former Ni-H collaborator) has similar claims
No-one with deep access argues against the eCat
A number of respected scientists with privileged access publicly support Rossi
A number of non-aligned prominent scientists give qualified support
Rossi has numerous financial backers
Defkalion, with 200 million Euros on the table, state that their engineers have unrestricted daily access and get gains no less than 19 in tests. This means that they are not victims
Specific and short timescale to launch
Large output and gain is simple to measure to an accuracy that matters commercially
Andrea Rossi will lose everything if the eCat does not do as he promises
Professor Stremmenos, Defkalion Board member and conduit to Greek PM, is beyond reproach and in it up to his neck
AR’s former colleagues bought the rights for the Americas (Ampenergo) – a demonstration of credibility from those who know
Scientists at the University of Bologna (and the institution itself) are happy to be associated with eCat
Often a stick to beat him with, Andrea Rossi’s background is also indicative of a serial entrepreneur pushing at the front edge of what is possible
Mainstream media is not covering a 200 million Euro fraud with links to Greek government and prominent scientists
If anyone finds this topic exciting, and I check updates on the topic several times daily. It is awesome!
I would encourage anybody interested to check it out on your own and join in the countdown fun.
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