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Thread: The mystery of water ?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You mean solvation shell, happens in other liquids too.
    And when it's water it's called a hydration shell.
    So what?
    so the shell is outside the parameter of the molecule its self , the H2O bond

  2. #22
    what of though the interior of the H2O molecule ?

  3. #23
    Penguinaciously duckalicious. Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    What do you mean "interior"?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    What do you mean "interior"?
    what the definition of interior implies

  5. #25
    Penguinaciously duckalicious. Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    And how do you get an "interior" when the thing consists of 3 atoms?
    It's hardly enclosed.
    And what do you mean "what of it?"

  6. #26
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    water is made up of three explosive parts, yet it puts out fire amazing really.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by thinking View Post
    so the shell is outside the parameter of the molecule its self , the H2O bond
    true

  8. #28
    Penguinaciously duckalicious. Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    You're probably better off replying to your own posts, since you haven't, so far, managed to express yourself very clearly to anyone else.
    What exactly do you mean by "parameter"?
    Perimeter?
    That would be why it's called a "shell".
    Water molecules attach themselves to the surface of whatever's put into it.

  9. #29
    ALEA IACTA EST Trippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinking View Post
    so the shell is outside the parameter of the molecule its self , the H2O bond
    Wrong.

    It is completely within the expectations of water - as long as you're willing to apply a little common sense and logic to the situation.

    The only thing that particularly mystifies me about water is how certain groups of people continue to misunderstand or misrepresent it.

    If this thread doesn't strt making sense soon, and questions don't start being addressed, I'm going to move it to Pseudoscience.

  10. #30
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    Water is interesting.

    It expands when it turns into a solid - hence it is less dense and floats, so freshwater fish don't get flattened.

    It is transparent.

    It has a very heat of vaporization - making sweating effective.

    For its mass it has melting and boiling points.

    The H-O-H angle is close to the ideal tetrahedral angle.

    Very high specific heat.

    High surface tension - which helps capillary action.

    Good absorber of heat.

    High specific heat index - works well as a coolant, that is.

    Strong intermolecule hydrogen bonding.

    It is the only substance found naturally on earth in all three states: solid, liquid and gas.

    It has a big range as a liguid, most other substances do not have such a range.

    It is not a coincidence that we are water-based.

    It is an excellent solvent.
    Last edited by Doreen; 05-02-10 at 11:26 PM.

  11. #31
    Penguinaciously duckalicious. Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    Good conductor of heat.
    Close: it's a bad conductor of heat.
    It will transfer heat through better through convection.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Close: it's a bad conductor of heat.
    It will transfer heat through better through convection.
    Whoops, meant absorber, though this is redundant in my brainstorming list.

  13. #33
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    Found a couple of others I did not know.

    It moves more freely when it is squeezed.

    http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0219/

    Interesting that they noticed that water's anomalous properties have to do with increased order.

    And then snow crystals are rather interesting. But I don't know how unique this is since not so many liquids fall from the sky and freeze.

    Here's another article on water's anomalies
    http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090814_water.htm

    where they say......
    Water exhibits 66 known anomalies
    Would have been nice if they gave the list.

    This was interesting also

    Nils*son and col*leagues re*cently di*rect*ed pow*er*ful X-rays at sam*ples of liq*uid wa*ter. Their re*sults sug*gested the text*book mod*el of wa*ter at or*di*nary con*di*tions was wrong and that, un*ex*pect*edly, two dis*tinct struc*tures, ei*ther very disor*dered or very tet*ra*he*dral, ex*ist no mat*ter the tem*per*a*ture.

    In a pa*per pub*lished in the journal Pro*ceed*ings of the Na*tional Acad*e*my of Sci*ences, the re*search*ers re*ported the ad*di*tion*al finding that the two types of struc*ture are spa*tially sep*a*rat*ed, with the tet*ra*he*dral struc*tures ex*isting in “clumps” made of up to about 100 mol*e*cules sur*rounded by disor*dered re*gions. The liq*uid is a fluc*tu*at*ing mix of the two struc*tures at tem*per*a*tures rang*ing from am*bi*ent to all the way up near the boil*ing point. As the tem*per*a*ture of wa*ter in*creases, few*er and few*er of these clumps ex*ist; but they are al*ways there to some de*gree, in clumps of a si*m*i*lar size. The re*search*ers al*so found that the disor*dered re*gions them*selves be*come more disor*dered as the tem*per*a*ture rises.
    and it goes on to explain how this affects supercooled water.

  14. #34
    ALEA IACTA EST Trippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    Water is interesting.
    I don't doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It expands when it turns into a solid - hence it is less dense and floats, so freshwater fish don't get flattened.
    This is only true of ordinary hexagonal Ice (Ice I I believe).
    It is also true of Gallium, Bismuth, Germanium, and Silicon, and may also be true of Acetic acid and Antimony (but there's reason to suspect this may be an error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It is transparent.
    So are Liquid Oxygen (transparent Blue), Liquid Hydrogen, and Liquid Helium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It has a very heat of vaporization - making sweating effective.
    Tellurium has a comparable heat of vaporization, There are 56 elements with enthalpies of vaporization higher than that of water, and 16 elements with enthalpies of vaporization below that of water. The most effective substances for shedding heat through vaporization would be Tungsten, nearly 21 times more efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    For its mass it has melting and boiling points.
    Because of the strength of the Hydrogen Bonds, however, Berylium weighs half as much, and has a melting point nearly 6 times higher, and a boiling pont nearly 25 times higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    The H-O-H angle is close to the ideal tetrahedral angle.
    This is a direct result of the low atomic number of Hydrogen (it has to do with the presence of the two non-bonding electrons in the valence shell, and how closely they and the bonding electrons sit to the nucleus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    Very high specific heat.
    Ammonia, Helium, and Parrafin wax have higher specific heats (depending on how you measure it).


    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    High surface tension - which helps capillary action.
    The sruface tension of Mercury is nearly 6.5 times higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    Good conductor of heat.
    I believe you've already been corrected on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    High specific heat index - works well as a coolant, that is.
    You've already made this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    Strong intermolecule hydrogen bonding.
    Not as strong as in, for example, Hydrogen Flouride, or, I believe, Hydrogen Chloride. The Hydrogen bonding in Hydrogen Flouride is so strong that it artificially lowers the pH of aqueous HF solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It is the only substance found naturally on earth in all three states: solid, liquid and gas.
    This, is a actually true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It has a big range as a liguid, most other substances do not have such a range.
    Again, Berylium has a range between BP and MP of something like 10 or 12 times as high as water, for half the weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It is not a coincidence that we are water-based.
    A statement of the Anthropic principle.
    We evolved to be water based because water was the best substance available to fullfill the role that it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doreen View Post
    It is an excellent solvent.
    How do you define 'excellence' as a solvent?

  15. #35
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Geeks

  16. #36
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    Dwyddyr- stop poking for an answer. Water gets LIGHTER as it freezes; it is the universal solvent etc. etc. Water is the #1 prerequisite for life for these reasons... whatever we ever find, it will be water bags like us.

  17. #37
    ALEA IACTA EST Trippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpet View Post
    Dwyddyr- stop poking for an answer. Water gets LIGHTER as it freezes; it is the universal solvent etc. etc. Water is the #1 prerequisite for life for these reasons... whatever we ever find, it will be water bags like us.
    Less Woo, more science.

    Please.

    I've already demonstrated how most of these claims are far from being unique when it comes to water, and water is far from being the universal solvent.



    To give one example.

    As far as not poking for answers... Are you saying that only some assertions should be questioned?

  18. #38
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Here is a cool Interview of "Masaru Emoto" and his work with water crystals.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZDOP...eature=related

    And here is crystals while playing different national anthems.

    http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/ephoto.html

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippy View Post
    This is a direct result of the low atomic number of Hydrogen (it has to do with the presence of the two non-bonding electrons in the valence shell, and how closely they and the bonding electrons sit to the nucleus.
    Contrary to popular belief and countless low-lever chemistry textbooks, the non-bonding electrons in water don't really have much to do with the bent shape. Based on the bonding within the molecule, the protons would ideally be 90 degrees from each other. But this would cause the protons to bump up against each others van der Waals radius, so they bend their bond angle slightly to be farther apart from each other.

  20. #40

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