The mystery of water ?

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by thinking, May 3, 2010.

  1. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Response to entire thread (minus the bond-angle discussion):

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  3. eddie_creationist Registered Member

    You are mostly water. Atoms do not touch. A BAR of Gold since its atoms do not touch is 99.999% Space. Make the atoms in the Statue of Liberty touch & it will disappears.
    Humans are less dense than Gold, therefore, humans are 99.999% Space. Humans are mostly Space, with Consciousness.
    Globally scientists are reporting that "NATURE" has invented everything high tech. The skin of a cuddle fish is a HDTV screen, DNA is an advanced Base-4 digital Software Program, intracellularly we find molecular machine, protein robots, motor proteins, digital analog molecular interfaces, everything is energy & information.
    Humans are advanced ATOMIC HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGES living in a virtual Universe...a Holodec. Look at Nature...God has already invented everything. Old Testiment King Solomon reports NO NEW THING UNDER THE me & I will show you in nature that everything has already been invented...the Earth is a Space Ship with a force field...yada yada yada done that been there...
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Welcome, new fruitcake.
    Do you have anything coherent to impart to us, or is your speciality going to be insupportable drivel?

    I do like the idea of a cuddle fish, but wouldn't you get wet while being hugged?
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  7. Jon X Science Registered Senior Member

    I remember reading something on The Daily Galaxy's website about properties of water that have just been discovered. One of them being that if a strong electrical field is passed through two beakers of water, that the water will rise up out of the beakers and create a bridge, when the temperature of the water reached 60 degrees Celsius, the bridge fell apart. And another was that Salt water can be set alight with a certain frequency of radio waves.
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    I would need to see that to believe, but it is a plausible claim due to properties of cold water I explained in the last section of this posts:

    Then in this post I used my postulated tendency of cold water to form multi unit H2O chains to explain why water is one of the very few substances that expands when freezing here:

    Now if these very cold H2O polymer chains were subjected to an intense electric field, they would become linear chains instead of "twisted chains" when cold. I.e. the O-- end of the monomers in the chain would be closer to the positive electrode making the intense electric field (and the H+ H+ pare of each monomer of the chain closer to the negative electrode.)

    If the two beakers are tipped towards each other and close to each other, I can believe it possible that these chains do bridge the gap between the two beakers with water. If they do, it is powerful support for my model of water below 4 degrees C as more polymor chains than simple H2O molecules. I.e. the chemical formula for very cold water is: n(H2O) where "n" is any of a set of small integers most being n=12 or less as my guess when water temperature is 1 degree C.

    Based on my theory about the structure of very cold water, I will even make a prediction that can be tested:

    If very intense, uniform, electric field is applied to 0.5 degree C water in a square cross section glass beaker and maintained for about an hour in a 0.5 C environment and then the field is turned off in a small fraction of a second, the water will in a few seconds be colder than it was and colder than the 0.5 C environment. For example it may become 0.45 C. This is because energy is required to make the linear chains all "twisted and kinky" again.

    In thermodynamic terms some of the Kinky degrees of freedom held little energy as they could not be populated when the strong field was present. but when it is gone, all possible modes of energy storage will be filled with the same energy by the "law of equal partition" of energy. Thus the linear modes will lose vibrational & stretch energy to the now available "kinky modes" of the chain.

    This is very much like an experiment you can do with your tongue (It is very sensitive to small quick temperature changes.) and a thick rubber band.

    Fully stretch the rubber band and hold it fully stretched for more than a minute so the work done in stretching it, part of which heated it, is thermal energy given back to the room temperature air. Then place the still stretched rubber band on your tongue and let it quickly contract. You will sense it becomes cooler. Here is why:

    As with the water in the electric field when the force is quickly removed the long linear chains of the rubber molecules become "kinky" and shorter again so they then have more energy in those modes than when the rubber band was stretched. That energy had to come from some where. - I.e. the rubber band temperature noticably decreases.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2010
  9. Jon X Science Registered Senior Member

    I found the post. I'll post the link in a second.

    EDIT: Here it is. Click here
  10. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Thanks. Here is direct link with photo and some discussion:

    I can make a second prediction, based on my theory about the structure of very cold water, which is even easier to test:

    If an intense electric field is normal to the water surface, that surface will cease to be a poor but specular reflector because instead of being flat on an optical wavelength scale, it will be covered with millions of microscopic vertical spikes. I.e. the surface will diffusely scatter instead of specular reflect about 4% of the incident light. It is quite possible that the surface may "turn black" as incident light scatters many times off the surfaces of these spikes so little net reflection of any type, certainly not specular, occurs. Less likely, but conceivable IF the micro spikes are a uniformly spaced array, then colors may appear as the regularly spaced scatterers act like a diffraction grading.

    It may be possible to both reduce the voltage required and force the formation of a "uniformly spaced spike array" with a find-scale micro-electrode array, just below the water surface. There may even be commercially attractive electrically controlled displays possible (using a transparent electrode just above the water surface).

    Normally, for example, one can safely look at an image of the sun reflected by a water's surface, but when the strong field is vertically applied, all the sunlight falling on the surface will scatter in all directions making no image of the sun but the entire surface seeming to glow orange.

    Unlike my first prediction which requires a sensitive temperature gauge, All you need to test this one is bright small angle source, like the sun, your eye ball, and of course the generator of the very intense vertical electric field. (It need not be precisely vertical, even 10 degree off vertical should work fine.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2010
  11. river

    did you follow through with your ideas ?
  12. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Water is the most anomolous substance in nature with 67 known anomalies.

    A few interesting ones are;
    -The thermoconductivity of ice reduces with pressure.
    -Hot water can freeze faster than cold water (Mpemba effect).
    -Pressure lowers ice's melting point.
    -The surface of water is more dense than the bulk.
    -Pressure reduces the temperature of maximum density.
    -No aqueous solution is ideal.
    -The mean kinetic energy of water's hydrogen atoms increases at low temperature.
    -Proton and hydroxide ion mobilities are anomalously fast in an electric field.
    -Under high pressure water molecules move further away from each other with increasing pressure.
    -Water has over twice the specific heat capacity of ice or steam.
    -The speed of sound in water may show a minimum.

    Although water is often represented with Sp3 hybrid orbitals, water actually looks like this:

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    Plato, back in ancient times, thought that water could be represented by an icosahedron.

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    Contemporary investigations verified the icosahedron as an extended structuring in water.

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  13. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Is that supposed to be some sort of useful bonding information that's discernible from that picture :bugeye:
  14. river

    Although water is often represented with Sp3 hybrid orbitals, water actually looks like this:

    what do the lines around the molecule represent ?
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    No, I no longer have easy access to >10KV DC; very current limited source (for safety). Hope some one who does will test them and my model of the surface in High E field then being made of micro spikes of vertical chains of the polar H2O molecules. (Try both possible field directions normal to the gross surface -that may make a difference.)

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