On Health Care and Government Intrusion

The question has something to do with the decision ....

  • How dare that judge!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I need to explicitly express that this is one occasion we need to sack the First Amendment.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other (I'm confused)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
On Putting Government Between You and Your Doctor

In terms of inserting the goverment forcibly between patient and doctor, Republicans have had an odd outlook. To the one, the idea of insuring the previously uninsurable seems to incense them. To the other, they really, really want to get into the OB/GYN's office.

And they just lost:

Doctors in North Carolina cannot be forced to show women ultrasound images and describe them in detail before performing an abortion, a federal judge ruled Friday. The decision was lauded by civil rights advocates and criticized by supporters of the law.

U.S. District Judge Catherine Eagles ruled Friday that the provision of a 2011 North Carolina law requiring abortion providers to display ultrasound images so women can see them and then describe the dimensions of an embryo or fetus and other particulars is overly broad and a free-speech violation.

Eagles, who was nominated to the court by President Barack Obama, described the clause as a “one-size-fits-all provision” that is “an impermissible attempt to compel these providers to deliver the state’s message in favor of childbirth and against abortion.”

“The Supreme Court has never held that a state has the power to compel a health care provider to speak, in his or her own voice, the state’s ideological message in favor of carrying a pregnancy to term, and this Court declines to do so today,” Eagles wrote in her ruling.


(Blythe and Jarvis)

Other parts of the "Woman's Right to Know Act" remain in effect, including the specific empowerment not only of a woman's spouse, but also parents and siblings, to sue the doctor on her behalf. It really is a bizarre legislative package, but the central fixture of the law, the reason for stapling all these things together and ramming them through the legislature, just fell apart.

Of course, there is always this question: Who didn't know this was coming?

Actually, it turns out there's an answer for that:

Advocates of the 2011 law requiring the narrated and detailed ultrasound at least four hours before an abortion noted that it included a provision that allowed women not to watch or listen to the presentation.

But challengers of the provision focused on free speech issues and argued that the law directed the speech of health care providers

Paige Johnson with Planned Parenthood of Central North Carolina said opponents of the law weren't sure what to expect from the court, since recent rulings in other abortion lawsuits have been mixed.

“This is a terrific victory for women in North Carolina,” Johnson said. “What was struck down was forcing a doctor to describe to a woman what she sees. I think anyone who hears that the government is encroaching on that level in a patient-doctor relationship is appalled.”

And what is it with Corbett argument? How can the supporters of these forced-insertion bills not understand the problem with ... oh.

Right. Anyway. The next question, of course, is what kind of show Justice Scalia will put on in defense of the forced-insertion laws.
____________________

Notes:

Blythe, Anne and Craig Jarvis. "Federal judge strikes down NC's ultrasound abortion law, citing free speech". News & Observer. January 17, 2014. NewsObserver.com. January 20, 2014. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/17/3542149/federal-judge-strikes-down-ncs.html

Peterson Beadle, Amanda. "Gov. Corbett Defends Pennsylvania Ultrasound Bill Because 'It's Not Invasive'". ThinkProgress. March 16, 2012. ThinkProgress.org. January 20, 2014. http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/03/16/445966/corbett-defends-ultrasound-bill/
 
Liberals are not very self reliant, but depend on group propaganda, group slogans and group chants. What you are saying is this extra information might damage that programming, by forcing women to see things the programming does not mention?

If a rational women has all the data, and this data appears again, it should not impact her resolve since she already considered this. But if she is not given full data, but only what the propaganda needs to manipulate, this could be a big surprise with the outcome not quite so predictable. Is there a quota needed and this may cause the quota to fall short? Is the real fear, female backlash due to balanced data?
 
So, Wellwisher, you support the right of the government to dictate what sort of medical procedures you get, and what your doctor can tell you? In that case, you might need another colonoscopy real soon now.
 
So, Wellwisher, you support the right of the government to dictate what sort of medical procedures you get, and what your doctor can tell you? In that case, you might need another colonoscopy real soon now.

That was good! I get a great laugh every time Wellwisher posts his/her thoughts.
 
wellwisher

Liberals are not very self reliant, but depend on group propaganda, group slogans and group chants.

And Conservatives are dumber than an old tree stump and wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ass.

Both of the above statements are thoughtless, gross overstatements. You withdraw and apologize for yours and I will do the same with mine. Liberals realize that just like Jesus taught, we are our brothers keeper, that EVERYONE is better off if we(as a society and as a person)take care of EVERYONE. And not all Conservatives are dumber than old tree stumps, they just act that way.

From the GREAT STATE OF MAINE…

An Email Exchange I'd Like to See

From: Bill in Portland Maine
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:34 AM
To: The Cosmic Forces of the Universe

Time for some serious immigration reform,
for an increase in the federal minimum wage,
for a major jobs program,
for bringing our troops home from Afghanistan,
for nixing the Keystone XL Pipeline,
for some massive funding for public education including state colleges,
for an EPA overhaul of hazardous substance rules,
for tossing out that hideous Asia version of NAFTA,
for a Constitutional Amendment that says corporations are not people,
for a new Voting Rights Act with even more teeth,
for restoring net neutrality,
for higher taxes on the rich,
for enough food inspectors to actually inspect our food,
for passing every responsible-gun-ownership law favored by more than 50 percent of the people in this country,
for dumping the NSA metadata machine,
for passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act,
for a Bob McDonnell conviction,
for Rush Limbaugh to make good, one year ahead of schedule, on his 2010 threat to move to Costa Rica in 2015 if Obamacare became law (and he can take that whiner Hannity with him),
for seeing to it that Chris Christie can never drive anywhere ever again without getting stuck in traffic,
for spring.

From: The Cosmic Forces of the Universe
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:35 AM
To: Bill in Portland Maine
Got it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/22/1271373/-Cheers-and-Jeers-Wednesday

Grumpy:cool:
 
He will just "de-skew" the facts until he sees a three piece suit. And blame the liberal media for any actual lack of clothing.

LOL, unfortunately, I think your are correct. We have seen that from folks of his particular ideology far too often for many years now (e.g. 2013 POTUS election polling).
 
Did anybody factor in the cost of all these unnecessary and unwanted ultrasounds? How much conception prevention would it buy? (or baldness cures - whatever the Catholic employers are willing to buy insurance for)
Maybe the hospital's technical and staff resources could be more effectively deployed .... like ultrasound tracing of blood clots, cysts and tumours... maybe?

What I recall about OBG/GYN day-surgery, they haven't got this kind of time to waste; no slack in the OR schedule for subjecting every patient to a sermon. No woman who is about to be rescued from 16 years of servitude to a 10-minute mistake she may not even have been conscious of making is likely to be dissuaded by a blurry white blob. At the optimal time of termination, there isn't much to see, and even less to care about, on an ultrasound.

Practical matters aside, either we trust our physicians or we don't. The state, when licensing, presumably considers a doctor competent enough in assessing patients' physical and mental condition, rendering medical advice, recommending and carrying out appropriate treatment, to entrust the life and health of its citizens to that person. When accepting a new doctor into its ranks, the AMA presumably considers that person of sound enough judgment and moral character to put him or her in charge of the most vulnerable.

So back off and let them do their frickin job!
 
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