Is there a way to tell when you are deluded?

Magical Realist

Magical Realist

Valued Senior Member
Surely there must be. I'm of the mind that we all have certain pet delusions about life and reality that we probably don't even know about. Oh sure, we'd like to THINK we all have the right pov on everything. But do we really? Delusions start in childhood, being raised as we do to unquestionably accept certain ideas and beliefs that our culture enforces on us. As we grow up we may acquire more delusions. Or we may learn to be more skeptical regarding what counts as facts and truths. Is there a good way to test if certain beliefs we have are delusional or not? What criteria should guide us here?

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Good test is to see if what you think exists in real world. If it does, then your ok, but if it does not and you keep having stuff in your mind that doesn't you have some problems.

The masses are so misdirected, they have no idea where to go for truths.

They cannot treat you for things if its really in the world outside your head.
 
Is there a good way to test if certain beliefs we have are delusional or not? What criteria should guide us here?
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Depends upon the society that you live in. Each society will set norms and values and make laws to insure that those are kept. So like I say it depends upon the society you live in as to what's what.
 
You could think the strangest things in the world, as long as they are outside your mind and in the world, then your not insane. You could be the only person that knows it, and as long as its in the real world, then your ok.

Always remember that.

Knowing something others do not, can be lonely, but truth is truth.
 
andy1033 said:
You could think the strangest things in the world, as long as they are outside your mind and in the world, then your not insane. You could be the only person that knows it, and as long as its in the real world, then your ok.

Always remember that.

Knowing something others do not, can be lonely, but truth is truth.
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LOL and that my friend is a great example of delusional thinking. You know something even though you cannot prove it and it is counterfactual.
 
Magical Realist said:
Delusions start in childhood, being raised as we do to unquestionably accept certain ideas and beliefs that our culture enforces on us. As we grow up we may acquire more delusions. Or we may learn to be more skeptical regarding what counts as facts and truths. Is there a good way to test if certain beliefs we have are delusional or not? What criteria should guide us here?
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Excluding the earliest contact with necessary caregivers, a feral human would seem culturally free. Yet still acquiring conditioned beliefs, environmental interpretations, or memorized responses that aided in its survival -- extras to any inherited intuitions stimulated into active emergence by sensory input.

The rest of us are safely tucked within the arms of family / society. Just as is the case when one rarely becomes the most radical doubter (a solipsist) while dreaming -- due to the likewise extrospective presence of "others", and communications with them. Society does not have experiences like its individual / subjective components, nor is there accordingly a possibility of it manifesting a "dream" or hallucination (though collective interactions might linguistically concoct a warped fantasy). Thus for better or worse, it becomes the guardian of what is objective or validly interpersonal -- those "facts" which cannot be undermined by will or desire or wish. Soothing, guiding, assuring, and integrating us with the song of its own survival biases, strengths, and limitations.
 
If you wake up in a filthy cold ditch with snot icicles hanging from your nose, and your body scratched by brambles,
and covered in mud from head to toe,
when you thought you had been brought by fairies to a silver palace
and was lying in a bed of rose petals while they sang beautiful songs, and brought you delicious cakes,
then you have probably been deluded.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
If you wake up in a filthy cold ditch with snot icicles hanging from your nose, and your body scratched by brambles,
and covered in mud from head to toe,
when you thought you had been brought by fairies to a silver palace
and was lying in a bed of rose petals while they sang beautiful songs, and brought you delicious cakes,
then you have probably been deluded.
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Commonly experienced no later than six years after marriage
 
You could think the strangest things in the world, as long as they are outside your mind and in the world, then your not insane. You could be the only person that knows it, and as long as its in the real world, then your ok.
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That's the thing though. It's very hard to determine the things that are outside one's mind in the world. The world pops up every morning prepackaged with values and qualities we have projected on it. We wake up with all the beliefs we have had for years, beliefs that keep us nice obedient little conformists in a system that promises us food and shelter and companionship in return. We float along in autopilot mode, going along with the status quo and mass sentiment because it's just so much easier being an unquestioning robot. Perhaps this is a calculated trade off. We
sacrifice self-aware principled living for the ease and comfort of whatever works. The standard for truth becomes whatever makes life easy and convenient for us.
 
elusive said:
IMHO if you never ask the question "why" on anything then you can be deluded about anything
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I like to ask why a lot. I don't always get an answer, but at least it wakes me up to the things I may be just accepting on faith in authority or in the traditional status quo. People don't generally like the why askers. They don't like their boat being rocked. They used to burn witches for far less.
 
We're under some gross misconception that we're a good species, going somewhere important, and that at the last minute we'll correct our errors and God will smile on us. It's delusion."--
Farley Mowat
 
True.
If we use our planet as a dustbin, then we must accustom ourselves to living in a dustbin.
God is not a refuse collector.
 
Delusion is the active cultivation of illusion. To fall into illusion is to be expected from time to time since we are under the grip of a world so much more powerful than us .... however delusion has the added complexity of actually cultivating such a mistaken concept of life. It's the nature of delusion that it delivers results contrary to what one intends.

It's kind of similar to an illness in that so many symptoms or problems arise from one singular affliction ... and that thsse symptoms/problems will persist for as long as this over arching condition remains untreated.

Commonly people will treat this subject as some sort of derivative of a political or social agenda although this is simply a means of trying to work on the symptoms while the cause of them remains untreated.

The core of this problem lies in what one ultimately thinks the purpose of this material world is ... or what one thinks is the ultimate relationship between this world and the living entity. . For as long as one thinks this world serves no higher purpose than a tool meant for one's enjoyment one will continually be tasked with the problem of seeking an arrangement that this world simply does not provide.
 
lightgigantic said:
To fall into illusion is to be expected from time to time since we are under the grip of a world so much more powerful than us .... however delusion has the added complexity of actually cultivating such a mistaken concept of life. It's the nature of delusion that it delivers results contrary to what one intends.
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That's an interesting take!

But it seems to suggest a kind of hopelessness about the matter - since there is always going to be someone more powerful than oneself, one is bound to fall into illusion. That doesn't sound like a good prospect at all! "If you get attacked by a bear, lose your job, get cancer, find yourself in the middle of a terrorist attack - expect to fall into illusion." That's very bleak.

Unless we are to posit that not all relationships of superior power are the same, not the same in nature - eg. being overpowered by cancer or a terorrist is quite different than being overpowered by a doting lover or a very knowledgeable teacher.


The core of this problem lies in what one ultimately thinks the purpose of this material world is ... or what one thinks is the ultimate relationship between this world and the living entity. . For as long as one thinks this world serves no higher purpose than a tool meant for one's enjoyment one will continually be tasked with the problem of seeking an arrangement that this world simply does not provide.
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... and thus perceive oneself as under the grip of a world much more powerful than oneself, and act according to that perception (the basic reactions to threat: fight, flee, freeze, and tend-and-befriend), which in the long run doesn't solve anything ("delusion has the added complexity of actually cultivating such a mistaken concept of life" - living life simply becomes a matter of switching between the basic reactions to threat).
 
lightgigantic said:
Commonly experienced no later than six years after marriage
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And you know this personally? Lol.


/.../ "Then there is the case of the monk who can handle the cloud of dust, the top of the enemy's banner, the tumult, & hand-to-hand combat. On winning the battle, victorious in battle, he comes out at the very head of the battle. What is victory in the battle for him? There is the case of the monk who has gone to the wilderness, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty dwelling. A woman approaches him and sits down right next to him, lies down right next to him, throws herself all over him. When she sits down right next to him, lies down right next to him, and throws herself all over him, he extricates himself, frees himself, and goes off where he will.
/.../
*
 
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The Marquis said:
Hit and Miss, Wynn.

With regard to your quote... where are you? Crunch time.
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Yay, because this is totally not personal, and it's all about isolating that shit and compartmentalizing, and it's cyberspace, separate, isolate, elucidate, snowflake delicacy.


I've heard an explanation for how a witch hunt occurs: It's likely in a group that has strong external boundaries (a strong sense of us vs. them, inside vs. outside) but weak internal boundaries (the members of the group are in enmeshed relationships with eachother, not having clear personal boundaries). When the overall adherence of the members to the group's norms falters, the group focuses on one member (or a few of them) as the scapegoats or witches in order to not have to pay attention to their own faltering adherence to the norms they otherwise profess.
 
The core of this problem lies in what one ultimately thinks the purpose of this material world is ... or what one thinks is the ultimate relationship between this world and the living entity. . For as long as one thinks this world serves no higher purpose than a tool meant for one's enjoyment one will continually be tasked with the problem of seeking an arrangement that this world simply does not provide.
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Why must one think the material world as any purpose at all? Why not take each thing for what it is, for itself and in itself? Like we take a work of art or a piece of music or a good meal. Seems to me there is more danger of delusion imposing some conceptual schemata over the template of material being. Why project such preconceptions on our experience? I can go thru my day availing myself of the benefits of material conveniences. But it doesn't mean I assume its purpose is just to please me. Other people reap the rewards of material being also. Then there's other aspects of material being that hinder us. Disease, bad weather, crime, malfunctioning technology, etc. Matter is pretty much a value neutral substrate. It would be naïve to think it is there just for you, considering its long history of being here before you.
 
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