The claim I will make is, expanding space-time will cause entropy to increase in proportion to the expansion of space-time. Here is the thought experiment. Say we had two identical factories, which both make gadgets. Both use the same machines and processes and create defects at the rate of 1 per hour. These defects reflect entropy in the process. One of the factories we will place in contracted space-time and the other in expanded space-time. Since time speeds up in the expanded space-time reference, the rate of defects or entropy will increase in that factory, since hours appear to occur quicker. The factory place where space-time is contracted will appear to lower its rate of defects since hours seem to slow down. Does our expanding universe shows this entropy increase?
Compared to what? Since we exist in an expanding universe we don't have a non-expanding one to compare it to.
ok im a worker in factory C (contracted time) and your a worker in factory E (expanded) each of us see the same thing happening, but you die faster.. perspective is important to this theory..
I think as spacetime expands, the level of entropy will fall as matter has to fill a greater and greater expanse. It is not itself expanding significantly. The same matter in more and more expanding space would logically eventually radiate all its energy resulting in less entropy.
I started with a normalized reference, where we measured 1 defect per hour. If we move one factory into expanded space-time, since time speeds up, so will the rate of rate of defects or entropy increase. Entropy is easier to explain in terms of degrees of freedom. If we took a star, it has diversity or many degrees of freedom. If we increase gravity to form neutron density (space-time contracts), the degrees of freedom have decreased to this singular state of matter.
Even so, the inherent energy of the system would not change. Energy does not expand or contract that I know of.
I would add that expanding space-time increases the energy of the whole system as the temperature of the adiabatic system decreases.
No, the conservation of energy is not violated as spacetime expands. It is the Energy Content (\(E_{Rest} = m_{net}{c^2}\)) of the system that is conserved. The spacetime expansion energy increases with distance from the center of the system, like a spring being stretched. This is in direct contrast to the Gravitational Potential Energy of this same system which decreases as the distance from the center of the system increases.
So the "energy content" is conserved but the "energy of the whole system" increases? That sounds odd to me.
Sorry, this should have been written, the "Vacuum and or Dark Energy of the whole system" increases with distance, and while this vacuum energy is increasing with distance the Temperature of the system decreases. Once again it is the Energy Content (\(E_{Rest} = m_{net}{c^2}\)) of the system that is conserved.
I've never understood how a Universe with a posited force that both increases AND increases with distance could be said to conserve energy whatsoever. Forget temperature, Magneto. Consider a Universe in which 2 masses are distant apart enough such that this mystery repulsive force is stronger than the gravitational force. They repulse each other. This adds to their relative separation, and this adds to their repulsion. This continues in a feedback loop...eventually the result would be a Universe in which the aggregate relativistic mass approaches infinity. It's the repulsive analogy of my questions concerning pressure causing gravity in a BH...
RJBerry are you postulating a new theory? I don't believe that Spacetime Repulsion or entropy works like you describe. First this two mass body universe would form an isolated net inertial mass system where the energy content of the two mass body system is conserved. Why is this so? First because without considering relativistivic effects the total mass of this system remains unchanged throughout the universe, and the speed of light is assumed to be constant. The total mass of the system warps the space and time in the local vicinity of the net inertial mass forming a Schwarzschild Event Horizon Black Hole. Relative to the center of this two body universe a Gradient Gravitational Field is produced that allows the Gravitational Potential Energy to decrease as the distance from the center of the system increases. And at the same time a repulsive gradient field that exists relative to the center of the system; the spacetime Vacuum Energy or Dark Energy expands with distance relative from the center of this system. It is the space-time between the mass bodies that is expanding What does this mean? This means that the Vacuum Energy is repulsive and is zero at the center of the system, and infinite at infinite distances. The Gravitational Energy is attractive, and is infinite at the center of the system, and is zero at infinite distances. I am not sure what "feedback" you are refering to?
Certainly not! I'm a layman questioning my possible misunderstanding of an existing one, asking for clarification or explanation. I don't understand your post whatsoever, by the way. The conservation of energy of the universe *should* hold whether relativistic effects are considered or not, correct? Anyway, take the system you've described, and place each mass sufficiently far away from the center such that the repulsive gradient >> gravitational field. Please describe what happens next. With some thought you will realize that equilibrium in such a Universe is not practically possible, and that soon the masses will be moving away from each other at ever increasing relative velocities, implying an increase in aggregate Universal energy approaching infinity. Contrast this with the infinite gravitational field at the singularity of a BH, where we may speculate that the problem could plausibly be avoided. In space, there is always "more space" such that the repulsive gradient is ever increasing.
Yes and No. The conservation of Energy Content is speed and frame dependent; and each observer in his frame will measure the energy content of the system as being conserved. As long as that two mass body universe is not traveling at any relativistivic speed all observers in and outside of the universe will measure the Energy Content in the Center of Mass frame to be the same. And in case you get an uneasy feeling about an observer outside of the universe. Consider your external observer to be at rest in the univerese while the Center of Mass of your mass system moves away from your inertial frame measurements. I am not saying anything new here, this is how Einstein's special relativistic mass-energy increase works. If each mass were placed sufficiently far away from the center of the repulsive gradient >> gravitational field; according to Newtonian Gravitational Attraction theory the two mass bodies will pull or mutually attract from infinte distances towards a common center of the two mass system; eventually forming a Schwarzschild Black Hole Event Horizon. This mutual inertial mass attraction acts in the face of spacetime repulsion. I understand what you are stating. You are stating that if the Gradient Field >> Gravitational Potential Energy and Gravitational Tangential Velocity is minimised at very large distance scales; then this should mean that at those great distances the Gradient Field >> Repulsive Vacuum Energy and tangential Vacuum Velocity should be large; which makes the mass bodies further repulse away because spacetime is expanding and the gravitational attraction is reduced. What I am having a hard time explaining is that spacetime repulsion acts like a fluid, and interacts more strongly with the vacuum of spacetime fluid "Aether" and does not act on inertial matter "normally" like you are suggesting when there is no strong gravitational attraction in that location. To solve your problem we have to introduce a new Gravity Attraction term this is called Heat Radiation Gravitation. The heat Radiation Gravitation term acts on scales similar to the Spacetime Repulsion Vacuum Energy. This Heat Radiation term increases with "distance squared' and "Temperature to the fourth power". However, this temperature decreases with increased distance from the center. The repulsive gradient is ever increasing, however there is a differential between this Spacetime Repulsive Vacuum Energy and this not so talked about Heat Radiation Attraction Gravitation term.
To me, the above statement appears that you're suggesting that, in the absence a significant gravitational field, the repulsive field perhaps approaches a constant gradient which is less than infinite...or something? This seems to contradict As long as the net effect of all forces on the 2 bodies is to increase the distance between them, then after a sufficient amount of time they will be traveling at relativisticly significant speeds. Am I wrong in saying that either one of them, or even a neutral third party sitting at the Universe's center of gravity and experiencing no acceleration, would all concur that the energy of the Universe appears to be increasing with time?? In other words, if you can increase velocity without an expenditure in energy then you have "gained" energy, correct? And maybe you should qualify your responses, Magneto, with a the degree to which they adhere to standard accepted theory vs your own personal explanation.
Energy is conserved when space-time expands. Some of the energy changes into the entropy, with more conversion into entropy as space-time expands. One source of lost energy would be red shift. The average photon will lose energy value, with the energy going into the entropy. Red shift and energy conservation implies the energy differential will need to go somewhere or energy will be destroyed; entropy.
General Relativity predicts that for a conserved system relative to the center of the system the Gravitational Potential Energy is infinite at the center and is zero at infinite distances. Thus, this is a diminishing gradient field potential energy. General Relativity also predicts that for that same conserved system relative to the center of the system the Spacetime Repulsive Vacuum Energy is zero at the center and is infinite at infinite distances. Thus, this is an increasing gradient field potential energy. What is contradictory here? See link: http://www.einstein-online.info/elementary/cosmology/expansion Agreed! I agree with this to a certain point. What Energy is conserved? Why would you consider Red Shift Energy to be lost. Space-time expands relative to the center of the system and the photon follows this spacetime expanded path which stretches the wavelength of the photon.
It's GR that I'm talking about, not your theory! (No offense, but I can only scrutinize one thing at a time.) Anyway, my question really remains unanswered...if GR predicts that two masses will eventually reach relative speeds coinciding with arbitrarily large amounts of energy, doesn't that break conservation of energy?
