Lets face facts..it has been a hopless defeat for the USA and UK Army yet Bush and the equally stupid Gordon Brown refuse to lose face by quitting a lost cause. Our troops must be withdrawn. It been a complete and utter failure based on lies, the inhumane hanging of a strong leader in Saddam Hussein. Thousands of allied deaths and countless death of innocent iraqi women and children. Of course they won't face the truth. Gordon Brown is a weak conman and mere puppet to the muppet in the White House. Oh for the days of Maggie Thatcher. The Muslims respect strong leaders and she would have slapped Bush down and belittled his stubborn vanity. Lets have no more silly half measures and empty gestures....withdraw from Iraq NOW!
Republicans can't think for themselves. So until the conservative hierarchy commands it's constituents to support a pullout, they'll stand complacent and justify the uneccessary deaths of Americas heros.
I think that same sentiment was expressed by some during our fight with Nazi Germany in World War II. In fact, several times it seemed as if we were on the verge of defeat ...but we continued fighting while others begged us to bring the troops home. ...and we won. I think that same sentiment was expressed in the Pacific when the Japanese had devastated our Navy forces and defeated the Army in the Phillippines. But we continued to fight ...and we won. "When things look back, ya' gotta' get mean! And I mean mad-dog mean!" The Outlaw Josey Wales. Baron Max
Barren Facts: -The Outlaw Josie Wales -And right after saying that, JW rides out to make peace with the scary Apaches, joining forces with them to fight the United States. What's your next rallying cry- Are you going to quote some Wahabbi-Madrasa sermon in an attempt to glorify the neocause? Tough talk is cheap. Lives aren't. Neither is our national reputation. Baron Max: "I think that same sentiment [that it has been a hopless defeat for the USA] was expressed by some during our fight with Nazi Germany in World War II. In fact, several times it seemed as if we were on the verge of defeat" Our war with Nazi Germany was a popular one, and the occupation of Iraq is not. The American public majority never doubted our reasons for fighting the Nazis. A clear majority of Americans do doubt the justifications for this Iraq war, and want it ended. Comparing these two wars just doesn't cut it, Baron. Even the Spanish-American War was more popular. Remember the Maine, and learn about Never Forget. Please try again.
No. You have the right to your thoughts. We have the right to ours. You don't have a right to ours. So, no.
Oh baron i like how you think come on this war is hopeless we are not fighting soldiers we are fighting civilians we think there bieng friendly than bang they shot you in the face.. this is far diffrent than ww2
Well, good! Hype, I'm glad to see that you think the majority vote/rule is the way to go in life. So, no gay marriages is okay with you because the majority don't want it, right? And the majority wanted to go to war in Irag and Afghanistan, so you approve of us going to into the wars, right? What else do you like because the majority of Americans want it? Yep, the majority should always have their way, shouldn't they? You're a good man, Hype, even after all the bad things I've said and thought about you. Baron Max
And just how do you know that they're civilians? Do you have some secret method in determining that that we could tell our fighting men? I'm sure they'd appreciate it. Baron Max
I wonder what if there was no media to tell us about who we are fighting and the reasons for it, how would we know what wars would be popular? If the media did not report what was happening in Germany and surrounding area, what would have made WW2 popular? If the media did not constantly report negatives things in Iraq (and instead reported all things not just negatives, or even if they reported negatives in a different manner) or not report anything at all, what would make it unpopular? I am sure you have contemplated this and then quietly dismissed it out of hand because it did not fit your agenda.
radicand: "what if there was no media to tell us about who we are fighting and the reasons for it, how would we know what wars would be popular?" What if there was no language to write with? How would you respond to that here? In a strange world without communications including news, we would of course create news media, underground if necessary. "If the media did not report what was happening in Germany and surrounding area, what would have made WW2 popular?" Probably the snappy uniforms and flags. "If the media did not constantly report negatives things in Iraq (and instead reported all things not just negatives, or even if they reported negatives in a different manner) or not report anything at all, what would make it unpopular?" The realities that a) the Iraq war was unnecessary, b) was sold on lies, and c) is harmful to US interests. "I am sure you have contemplated this..." Correct. "...and then quietly dismissed it out of hand because it did not fit your agenda." Correct. My agenda includes using my brain, and includes a curiousity for what is happening in the world.
Baron Max: "I'm glad to see that you think the majority vote/rule is the way to go in life." Thank you. "So, no gay marriages is okay with you because the majority don't want it, right?" There has been no national consensus on that. And the majority wanted to go to war in Irag and Afghanistan, so you approve of us going to into the wars, right?" We entered these wars without any consensus. I think that surgically getting Bin Laden, and rolling up his organization would have been popularly supported after 9-11. These wars are certainly not popular now that public debate has awakened. "What else do you like because the majority of Americans want it?" I think greater accountability in government would be popular. "Yep, the majority should always have their way, shouldn't they?" So long as it is a representive majority (representative of the entire people), and so long as there has been due thought and debate, yes. That is the logical way for government to do the most good. "You're a good man, Hype, even after all the bad things I've said and thought about you." Thanks, Baron.
Clearly, you missed the point. Does using your brain and your curiously include all things happening, or just those that fit with your world view? Are you capable of seeing beyond Bush and republicans? When and if the next president is a democrat will you still include your brain and your curiosity? Or does it only see things as curious when republicans are in power, irrespective of where that is? You don't intimidate me, nor am I impressed with your long posts which say nothing, but make you feel good because you believe you have contributed. Typical leftist. Things only matter when it involves the opposition. You can justify everything on your end, but scrutinize the same acts when the opposition does it. And, yes (this is for another thread) US attorneys are fired all the time by new administrations. Funny, that your brain and curiosity, does not see this. Ditto, AG's work for the president it is a political appointment. Again, I would have thought that your brain and curiosity would have noticed this. I would agree that does not mean it is right. Perhaps, the American people should be voting on these political appointments.
I am sorry , I believe as most of you do that it was wrong and pointless etc to go to war with Iraq/Afghanistan. However, we made the wrong decision now we have to stick with it to the end, 2 wrongs don't make a right. and leaving those countries effectively in a civil war we created is just was wrong as going to war withthem in the first place. We have stupidly taken the responsibility of their countries upon our shoulders, however, we took that responsibility and now we have to see it through , no matter how man of our troops die etc.
radicand: "Does using your brain and your curiously include all things happening, or just those that fit with your world view?" Curiosity implies a "world view" that is open to change. I have reason to believe that I am relatively open-minded. "Are you capable of seeing beyond Bush and republicans?" Certainly. "When and if the next president is a democrat will you still include your brain and your curiosity?" Absolutely. I'm not a Democrat, by the way. I'm registered as an Independent, and I've voted for as many Republicans as Democrats over the years. "Or does it only see things as curious when republicans are in power, irrespective of where that is?" No, I'm certain that is not the case. "Typical leftist." Does pigeonholing me like this make you feel more open-minded than I? That doesn't seem a very respectable stance to take while criticizing my own impartiality. "Things only matter when it involves the opposition." That's a ridiculous to say, or accuse me of. I've registered disappointment in other politicians than Republicans in this forum. "You can justify everything on your end..." What specifically have I been justifying in your view? "but scrutinize the same acts when the opposition does it." I'm often critical of the present Democrat Congress, and Presidential candidates, especially evading tough issues, and for being mostly unresponsive to the will of the American People regarding Iraq. Let's please discuss the Gonzales resignation and US Attorney purge over in this thread. I'm responding to your questions and comments on those subjects there.
3 billion per week required to maintain status quo in Iraq. Sure, why not, there's money to burn. There is, isn't there?
Now. There is no benefit to be gained from an American military presence in Iraq that is ratcheting up tensions, not quelling them.
