http://www.greenpeace.org/international_en/news/details?item_id=796715It's horrible how Korea and I think Japan also, still kill whales for business.

Oh, but whale tastes really good, I quite like it...

Oh, but human flesh tastes very good as well! Especially if there's much fat and it is cooked right :]

I personally hate eating fish. I can't stand the smell. Perhaps it's best if the world stops dragging it out of the water.

The best is not to eat at all.

Well, a whale is no fish, if I am not mistaken.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international_en/news/details?item_id=796715It's horrible how Korea and I think Japan also, still kill whales for business.

I know, and i fuking HATE them for it!

I know, and i fuking HATE them for it!

Your hatred is misplaced. If you're going to hate anyone for killing whales, hate those who use the products from those whales. The whale-killers are just providing a supply for the demand, nothing more. If there were no demand, there'd be no whales killed.

Baron Max

Yeah, about thirty years ago a group of Japanese fishermen got so angry at the local dolphins for stealing "their" fish that they went out and started killing the dolphins. People wrote really angry letters to the American press, some suggesting that we should be able to kill any Japanese who killed a dolphin.

I sent some samples to my pen pal in Japan. He was really shaken. He had absolutely no idea that Americans and others felt so strongly about cetaceans. He said that if that information could be publicized in Japan, their whaling fleet and their whale meat industry would disappear in a fit of national shame.

Thirty years later, with Greenpeace getting headlines, I wonder whether things really have changed in Japan.

Thanks the gods for organizations like Greenpeace, that's all I can say.

Thanks the gods for organizations like Greenpeace, that's all I can say.Yeah, Greenpeace is where it's at. I wanna work during the summer for them one year, and chain myself to stuff.

May I suggest a russian space rocket? They do use a lot of unclean fuel! Think of the environment!

I have supported Greenpeace by donation for more than half my life. I don't understand why some people still automatically spite them and reject all "green" notions for that reason.

I don't believe there was ever a sustainable whale fishery, except on a local subsistence level. It's time for the United Nations to globally outlaw industrialized whaling - and if workers in certain countries would lose their livelihoods, it's not beyond the resources of the consuming nations to adequately compensate them.

May I suggest a russian space rocket? They do use a lot of unclean fuel! Think of the environment!
Funny, very funny :D ....but think of the waste it takes to get them there....not to good for the environment, lol :m:

ok, I will play devils advocate. what is wrong with whaling? as long as whales are not endangered, there is no reason not to hunt them. why do we have no problem killing some animals, yet outraged at the death of others? I find this moral inconsistency very puzzling.

do you know that tuna are fished heavily in Europe yet North America has restrictions on how many can be caught. this would not be bad except for the fact that they are the same tuna that swim back and fourth from Europe to America. we are getting screwed and the tuna are not being saved at all. we fish less, but it just means that places like Italy get more fish.

but people love their "noble" causes, and since it is so popular to save the whales and kill the tuna that you all follow the trend like sheep.

that being said, I think that whales should not be hunted unless there are enough for all countries to hunt them, which is not the case.

I think greenpeace rock. They inade oil rigs and storm incinerator ships. Now that's environmentalism!

do you know that tuna are fished heavily in Europe yet North America has restrictions on how many can be caught. this would not be bad except for the fact that they are the same tuna that swim back and fourth from Europe to America. we are getting screwed and the tuna are not being saved at all. we fish less, but it just means that places like Italy get more fish.

So you think it'd be better for the tuna if everyone fished them as much as possible?

Your hatred is misplaced. If you're going to hate anyone for killing whales, hate those who use the products from those whales. The whale-killers are just providing a supply for the demand, nothing more. If there were no demand, there'd be no whales killed.

Baron Max

And conversly is also true, if there were no suppliers then no one could buy the product!

So you think it'd be better for the tuna if everyone fished them as much as possible?
no, there should be uniform regulation to keep the numbers in balence. the same with whaleing. we should not whale them to extinction, but if there are plenty, then taking a few should be ok.


And conversly is also true, if there were no suppliers then no one could buy the product!
yes, use market forces. for example, you could make restrictions on how many can be caught, thus the price goes very high, thereafter not as many people will want to buy.

baron the suppliers at moment are embarking on a campaine to INCREASE sale of wale meat (inspite of the fact that japan says it only kills for science and not for consuption)

well.. it's a scientific study to see how large quantities of whale-meat affect humans :p

no, there should be uniform regulation to keep the numbers in balence. the same with whaleing. we should not whale them to extinction, but if there are plenty, then taking a few should be ok.


But there aren't plenty.

eating whale is no good... We will just help extinct the specie.. that's all I can say..

But there aren't plenty.

To calculate the theoretical maximum sustainable yield from a population, you require the existing population figures and the breeding rate. Whales reproduce only very slowly, and seldom have more than 1 calf at a time. The big unknown is the population variable: unlike elephants or rhinos, whales cannot be counted.

I've seen estimates of the present World population of blue whales ranging from 20,000 down to only 800; even at the high end, their slow breeding rate will necessitate about 200 years to restore the original pre-whaling numbers (probably around 200-300 thousand).

Whale meat??-i have to say iv never tried it,dnt want to either, has anyone seen what they do at the whaling stations?i went once with dad, and fuck me is it sick...blood and shit everywhere-enough to turn one vegan!!:)

Whale tastes like meat. The reason that they eat whale is because they don't have enough land to raise cattle and importing cattle is very expensive.

I cant quite imagine the taste. Probably a heavy fish with heavy meat. I've always wanted to try komodo dragon.

Whale meat??-i have to say iv never tried it,dnt want to either, has anyone seen what they do at the whaling stations?i went once with dad, and fuck me is it sick...blood and shit everywhere-enough to turn one vegan!!

Well, then, John, don't go see a beef, chicken or pork slaughter house or you'll never eat meat again as long as you live! ...LOL!

But as to vegatarianism, if you should go that route, don't check into the crap that they spray on the crops during growing season and, oh, please, don't watch 'em during the harvest, packing and distribution .....you'll starve to death for sure! ...LOL!

Have you ever eaten lettuce that a picker has pissed on or spit on? Oh, you say, "No, of course not!" And then I laugh loudly and my dog looks up at me wondering why I'm acting so silly!! ...LOL!

Ignorance is blissful ......believe me.

Baron Max

I cant quite imagine the taste. Probably a heavy fish with heavy meat. I've always wanted to try komodo dragon.


Whale isn't a fish, it's a mammal which means its flesh is hairy like cattle or bison.

Whale isn't a fish, it's a mammal which means its flesh is hairy like cattle or bison.


My mistake. But how do you understand it as hairy? Are you saying the meat has hairs? Only my buds have hairs...nice crystally ones.

Like humans hair, its hair grows on the outside of its skin.

Curiously, folks often assume that market tendencies are responsible for natural extinctions. That is, it is your supposition that demand for whale blubber leads to the supply of whales being wholly and irreversably exhausted. Given that whales are a renewable resource, what businessman with half an ounce of sense would subscribe to such a nonsensical market theory? ESPECIALLY given that as the available supply of whales (and, conversely, whale blubber) decreased, their value would increase (thus encouraging suppliers, the whalers, to increase their supply of whale blubber, necesitating of course an increase in the supply of whales).

Look at the plights of chickens, cows, dogs, cats, sheep, pigs, etc. - all animals that we have allowed private businessmen to farm to their hearts content. And farmed they are. Billions of cattle are slaughtered a year, and yet no one is concerned about possibly wiping cattle off the face of the planet! Why might that be?

You see, it is not demand for whale blubber that is driving the whales extinct, anymore than demand for ivory is driving the African elephant extinct, or demand for beef is driving cattle extinct. Government regulation is what destroys natural populations, when it interferes with the natural tendencies of men to exploit their available resources in a necesarilly efficient and lasting manner (in the same way lions won't hunt local gazelle populations into extinction, unless tree-hugging men interfere and somehow send the lion or gazelle populations into an unnatural flux). Allow whales to be farmed, and I guarantee thered be no shortage in the whale population. Same thing for any other plant or animal on the planet. They tried this experiment in South Africa, I believe, with African lions. Despite heavy legal "protections," the African lion population was steadily declining, and they were on the verge of extinction. Desperate, the South African government allowed private ranchers to purchase the land on which the lions roamed (not the lions themselves, but the land). The ranchers immediately recognized the lion population as a potential source of great income, particularly if left alive. Because they were so few in number, a great many people placed value on seeing and observing them. So the ranchers charged admission and lead safaris! They hired guards to keep a 24 hour vigil over the four legged money-makers to curb the poachers, and shortly the lion population began to rebound.

Privatization works, every time. Why we continue to look at it as something to be feared or cautiously observed lest it commit some dastardly and irreversible malfeasance, despite centuries of evidence to the contrary, I really don't know. What I find most ironic is that we turn to the government to do this observing and regulating, despite the fact that the state has ALWAYS been exactly what we FEAR the private sector COULD be but NEVER really has been: a thief, a repressor, a mass murderer, a liar, a cheat, and a waster. In my humble opinion, the corporations should be watching the government on our behalf, not the other way around.

yea right

hey so what if we kill off this sort of wale, there is always the next untill all thats left are the dolphines but then we can just move onto them next right?

THAT is how big buisness feels, just look at what has happened to deep sea fish, comertial fishing destroyed the population and ONE RESTRAUNT making a fish its sig dish and what happened to it? it became indangered because they fished it to the brink of exstinction. Business DONT CARE, all they care about is money. The reason chickens, and cattle arnt exstint is because we FARM them, you CANT farm wales.

Its wrong and should be banned. Simple

Well, then, John, don't go see a beef, chicken or pork slaughter house or you'll never eat meat again as long as you live! ...LOL!
Oh hahahaha, :D , no you know wht i mean...?i ment tht as an exageration, im an avid fan of meat, yay.... :)





Ignorance is blissful ......believe me.
You know what, id definatly have to agree with you there!!!! :D

yea right

hey so what if we kill off this sort of wale, there is always the next untill all thats left are the dolphines but then we can just move onto them next right?

THAT is how big buisness feels, just look at what has happened to deep sea fish, comertial fishing destroyed the population and ONE RESTRAUNT making a fish its sig dish and what happened to it? it became indangered because they fished it to the brink of exstinction. Business DONT CARE, all they care about is money. The reason chickens, and cattle arnt exstint is because we FARM them, you CANT farm wales.

Its wrong and should be banned. Simple

Dont be a moron. You can farm anything thats capable of reproduction. Fishing is troubled by OVER REGULATION. It is illegal for private venture capitalists to create controlled fisheries for the rarest and most exotic aquatic species (thanks to the efforts of the greens, of course). Instead, the state acts as an intermediary, forcing business to go through it (via permits and licenses) for permission to HARVEST (the state alone assumes FULL responsibility for population control, "planting" if you will). And again, you are correct, these so-called "protected" fish populations are in trouble. This is further evidence in my favor!

The marine life which IS allowed to be privately farmed is in ZERO jeopardy of extinction, because the populations are carefully monitored by corporate overseers whose business is DEPENDANT on the survival and propogation of the species!

Of COURSE business is concerned about the "bottom line." This isn't bad. This is, in fact, GREAT. It is exactly why private ventures will always be INFINITELY more succesful in a given sector than the state (which operates according to the same motivators, but has a monopoly on FORCE, meaning it need not earn the dollars with which it pads its pockets). Who do you think is more trustworthy and holds an inate moral high ground: the guy who has to work for and earn your cash via voluntary exchange, or the guy who points a gun at you and demands it? Which of the two would you rather trust anyones/things life to, whales included?

If your business is whale blubber, it makes ZERO sense for you to kill every whale. Anyone that dunce would be bankrupt well before such lunacy could succeed.

Just think that there are over 6 billion humans living on the Earth today but in just 100 years there's going to be over 12 billion. How are they going to be fed ? If regulations aren't strictly enforced then other countries will come and and overfish on anyones teritory. It's better to stop the overfishing today so that the fish will be there in the future. With all of the pollution being dumped into the oceans around the world in 100 years there just maybe no safe waters that fish can live in. Imagine when all the sewage, garbage and other crap that is being loaded into the oceans becomes double or triple the amounbts that we put in it today how anything could survive will be a miricle.

comictraveler, you shud feel no remorse, all you have to do is travel the cosmos, as your name suggest, and find another planet, such as earth. My god, you may even be the new 'Adam', you will continue the human race when all the fish are eaten, further more you'll be one less person taking a shit into the ocean:)

Dont be a moron. You can farm anything thats capable of reproduction. Fishing is troubled by OVER REGULATION. It is illegal for private venture capitalists to create controlled fisheries for the rarest and most exotic aquatic species (thanks to the efforts of the greens, of course). Instead, the state acts as an intermediary, forcing business to go through it (via permits and licenses) for permission to HARVEST (the state alone assumes FULL responsibility for population control, "planting" if you will). And again, you are correct, these so-called "protected" fish populations are in trouble. This is further evidence in my favor!

The marine life which IS allowed to be privately farmed is in ZERO jeopardy of extinction, because the populations are carefully monitored by corporate overseers whose business is DEPENDANT on the survival and propogation of the species!

Of COURSE business is concerned about the "bottom line." This isn't bad. This is, in fact, GREAT. It is exactly why private ventures will always be INFINITELY more succesful in a given sector than the state (which operates according to the same motivators, but has a monopoly on FORCE, meaning it need not earn the dollars with which it pads its pockets). Who do you think is more trustworthy and holds an inate moral high ground: the guy who has to work for and earn your cash via voluntary exchange, or the guy who points a gun at you and demands it? Which of the two would you rather trust anyones/things life to, whales included?

If your business is whale blubber, it makes ZERO sense for you to kill every whale. Anyone that dunce would be bankrupt well before such lunacy could succeed.

That's nonsense.

What I find interesting is that people seem to think that the fuckin' whales are so damned important. What, please tell me, whould happen if all of 'em were gone tomorrow? Would the oceans somehow take revenge on us or what?

Shit, whales are just left-over dinosaurs ....and what happened when the dinosaurs disappeared? Ooooooh, life just kept right on, didn't it?

Baron Max

actually wales are mamals. CROCS are left over dinosaurs (and even they have evolved since), wales are no more left over dinosaurs than WE are

So? Answer the question, Asquard! What happens when all the fuckin' whales are gone? And how will it affect human life as we know it?

Baron Max

who the fuck cares how it effects human life. Im SOOO sick of "humantity" what gives us the right to chose which species lives and which dies?

who the fuck cares how it effects human life. Im SOOO sick of "humantity" what gives us the right to chose which species lives and which dies?

Might, power, the ability, the desire, the greed, ....all of it gives us the "right". In the same way the lion decides to kill the gazelle ...or are you suggesting that someone gave the lions that right??? Hmmm?

As to you being sick, I'm sooooo sorry.

Baron Max

Happy to inform you guys that South Korea has agreed not to create a whale meat factory.

Link: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/south-korea-scraps-whale-factory


In the same way the lion decides to kill the gazelle
Well it's not really the same because the lions and gazelles live in an ecosystem where neither will become extinct because of over-hunting. Commercial whaling would very much have the potential to wipe out the entire whale population.

Commercial whaling would very much have the potential to wipe out the entire whale population.

So what? What happens when all the fuckin' whales are gone? No one has been able to tell me why they're so fuckin' important! Is it just because saying otherwise makes people uncomfortable?

When we killed off the dodo bird, did the world somehow change? Was it immediately a horrible place to live? See? Nothin' happened ...nothin' at all.

Baron Max

So what is your suggestion? We use up every animal in turn until they are all dead and then what, start on each other (by race)? Honestly. How can you honestly think it's ok to eradicate another species?!

JLocke

No, just use what we want, eat what we want, shoot what we want ....and if one species can't take the heat, fuck 'em.

Baron Max

No, just use what we want, eat what we want, shoot what we want ....and if one species can't take the heat, fuck 'em.

Where do you come off having that attitude? If everyone had that attitude the human race would not exist right now...

Where do you come off having that attitude? If everyone had that attitude the human race would not exist right now...

He's just a reactionary, spiteful, malicious, small-minded, amoral troglodyte who care sbout nothing but his own life - and would, doubtless, howl and defecate uncontrollably if someone pointed a harpoon anywhere near him.

He's like a hard-core FHM reading uber-lad, who thinks nothing matters beyond sex, beer, and sport.

The Japanese and Koreans ought to know that if they like hunting whales, isn't it bad to deprive the coming generations of it?????????

I can hardly see how their continuation of the mass hunting would allow the coming generations to even know what a whale is!!

Whale hunting/farming is wrong because of the cruel and heartless method of slaughter. Improve your practices (whale hunters) and ill vote for the government that allows whaling.

I have been to a slaughter house when I was 13 and watched cattle come in on one side and moved out the other, as sides of beef into the freezer. I have watch a 200year old tree 70meter tall brought to the ground in and almighty thump by just one man with a big very big chainsaw. I saw the many living things scurry from the falling tree and heard the distressed calls of baby birds as the tractor wheeled machine approached and tore their home and life apart with unfeeling mechanical indifference. I prefer the slaughter house, at least here we make an effort to be human.

Where do you come off having that attitude? If everyone had that attitude the human race would not exist right now...

And the world would be a better place, wouldn't it? And isn't that what ye're arguing? ...that man should be more like all of the other animals of the Earth?

Baron Max

I can hardly see how their continuation of the mass hunting would allow the coming generations to even know what a whale is!!

And just how many whales do you think the average human sees in his entire lifetime?

I ask again: What the fuck good is a whale? Please tell me!

Baron Max

And the world would be a better place, wouldn't it? And isn't that what ye're arguing?

Well no, because then I would have said, "and the world would be a better place". But I didn't, I said "If everyone had that attitude the human race would not exist right now..." which would imply that I WANT the human race to exist (it's this silly thing about me being a part of it). I'm just trying to get you to stop and think that maybe, just maybe, you should start looking outside of what directly effects you at this very moment and look at the bigger picture, in terms of the entire earth and every living creature on it.

I'm just trying to get you to stop and think that maybe, just maybe, you should start looking outside of what directly effects you at this very moment and look at the bigger picture, in terms of the entire earth and every living creature on it.

I've done that ...for over 60 years ....and I don't like one damned thing about what I see in that "bigger picture". I do, however, see a great, wonderful place WITHOUT HUMANS IN IT.

Baron Max

I've done that ...for over 60 years ....and I don't like one damned thing about what I see in that "bigger picture". I do, however, see a great, wonderful place WITHOUT HUMANS IN IT.

If, in your ideal world, there are no humans, and no animals, then just what is there?

Who said anything about "no animals"? I just said no fuckin' humans! Please learn to read and not jump to conclusions so rapidly.

Baron Max

Who said anything about "no animals"? I just said no fuckin' humans! Please learn to read and not jump to conclusions so rapidly.

Max we've had many arguments over environmental issues over the past couple days and in those other threads you seems to not care if our animal life lived or died. I was simply responding to your attitude as a whole. Back to the topic, so you say you think the world would be a better place without humans, but that we should kill whatever animals we want and if they die, too bad...So what would be your solution? You think we should just commercially harvest whales till they die and move on to the next animal?

JLocke

heres an idea that just might work... lets alll grab our reefers, form a hippie fest, and smoke and enjoy music and burn the american flag cuz we hate bush.. then that might, JUST MIGHT, stop them from killing whales!
...

heres an idea that just might work... lets alll grab our reefers, form a hippie fest, and smoke and enjoy music and burn the american flag cuz we hate bush.. then that might, JUST MIGHT, stop them from killing whales!
...

Sounds like a plan to me...


:m: JLocke

:m: :D :m:

Why do you Republicans hate whales? I don't understand. Maybe too much testosterone? Do you have to arrogantly dominate everything on the planet? And what the fuck is wrong with smoking reefer and enjoying music? If you are against those things, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Why do you Republicans hate whales? I don't understand. Maybe too much testosterone? Do you have to arrogantly dominate everything on the planet? And what the fuck is wrong with smoking reefer and enjoying music? If you are against those things, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Spidergoat you made my day... :D

the point is that fine, wales dont mean anything so we kill them all, then we move on to the next animal (ignoring the fact that wales form a part of the ecosystem which would cause problems in and of itself) eventually we will be like all those scifi shows with no wildlife, living off sythsised proten because thats all thats left but what effect would it have MENTALLY? how many of us have pets? how would our lives be different if they didnt exist? how does any animal react if you put it in isolation? do you think we would be any different?

I've done that ...for over 60 years ....and I don't like one damned thing about what I see in that "bigger picture". I do, however, see a great, wonderful place WITHOUT HUMANS IN IT.

Baron Max
So why not make an example for the rest of us and die? Whales, by the way, don't live in isolation; they're a part of ecosystems. Extinction of whales affects the areas in which they live. Go google the rest.
Besides, I've just found a link that claims that more money is made getting people to travel and watch the whales. Although I'm not sure if tourism brings more cash than cooking whales in restaurants.

Although I'm not sure if tourism brings more cash than cooking whales in restaurants.

Nowadays yes, since very few people eat whale meat in most countries. And nature loving is still on the rise...

Thank you Greenpeace.

The worlds population is over 6.5 billion and growing daily. The pollution from humans is over 1 billion tons of pollutants per moonth being put into the air, water and land that we all live on. This type of problem will only get worse and killing whales won't be the worst of humanities problems in the veryu near future. If the pollution continues to rise EVERYTHING will be adversly affected and will ultimatly have medical roblems that will cause serious illnesses and deaths.

WE ARE THE PROBLEM.

The worlds population is over 6.5 billion and growing daily. The pollution from humans is over 1 billion tons of pollutants per moonth being put into the air, water and land that we all live on.

And yet, you'll notice that almost everyone here is against killing humans, against the death penalty, against abortion, striving to "save" the poverty-stricken nations of the world and save more humans, they're adamant about sending medicines and food to Africa to keep the population surviving and growing and multiplying, .........and a whole slew of other "save the humans" events and ideals.

Why? So we can have more humans on the planet? ...in order to pollute more of the planet? Is there some hippo-cricy going on with people or what?

Baron Max

I'm more for educating people with family planning, birth control and other various forms of life prevention other than killing people.

What have the whales ever done for me? Eh?

I'm more for educating people with family planning, birth control and other various forms of life prevention other than killing people.

That's been started some 50 years ago and it ain't stemmed the production of more and more humans.

Education? Sheee-it, man, where the fuck have you been?

Family planning? Sheee-it, man, where the fuck have you been?

Birth control? Sheee-it, man, where the fuck have you been?

None of that shit works ...except perhaps on the very, very upper class of humans. The rest of 'em fuck like minks and pump out babies like there was no fuckin' tomorrow! Education? ...LOL!!!

Baron max

At least someone tried. When the overpopulation destroys our environment, then they will learn. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

At least someone tried. When the overpopulation destroys our environment, then they will learn. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

Right. The rate of population growth is slowing, and I hope that some day the population will actually begin to shrink. Actually I'm hoping for extinction, but population shrinkage will have to happen first.

Right. The rate of population growth is slowing, .....

Well, that's true, actually. But the interesting thing is that the growth rate is shrinking in the more affluent, educated, civilzed areas of the world, but NOT in the poorer, starving, uneducated areas where it's essentially ALREADY out of control.

The ones who take to the education are the ones that need it the least!

Baron Max

Well, that's true, actually. But the interesting thing is that the growth rate is shrinking in the more affluent, educated, civilzed areas of the world, but NOT in the poorer, starving, uneducated areas where it's essentially ALREADY out of control.

Some Euroopean countries already have shrinking populations, or at least demographic changes which are depopulating large areas of land.

All developing countries should follow the Chinese "1 couple, 1 child" model... perhaps that's a bit extreme, I take it back.