Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement.

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement.

Actually he was quite an asshole. If you look at what he did and why he did it you too would see him for a total egotistical tyrant who dictated hate and spewed forth lies about people only to gain power and fame for himself no matter who was murdered to attain that goal. :mad:

Actually he was quite an asshole. If you look at what he did and why he did it you too would see him for a total egotistical tyrant who dictated hate and spewed forth lies about people only to gain power and fame for himself no matter who was murdered to attain that goal. :mad:

i agree. but i get the strange feeling there is a growing opinion viewing him as a great man.

I fail to see anything great about him. He was a disaster for his country and the world, so no.

Who would possibly think of him as a great man, exept the nazis!

But you have to admit he was a great leader. He had a lot of people doing a lot of horrible things for him all the while thinking it was for the greater good.
Yep, he knew what to say, when to say it, and who to say it to.

No, he did not lead at all. He inspired, but not govern. His underlings did the work most of the time.

and who led the underlings?

and who led the underlings?

Their own greed and ambitions.

i agree. but i get the strange feeling there is a growing opinion viewing him as a great man.

Just who do you get this "feeling" from? I don't recall anyone on this site ever mentioning him as "great" . Perhaps you can put a link as to where I can see all of these people who say that. :shrug:

oh, I thought they were afraid of him cuz of the power he had. So he was just a figurehead cheerleader???

Exactly. They adored hitler and saw him as agreat man, but they had their own ideas. Goring wnted to get rich, Himler wnted the master race (he was even worse then hitler on that subject), and all wanted to please hitler. But, it was controlled anarchy, quite oposite to Stalins russia, eventhough he was an equally bloddy tyrant.

Mr Spock is a jew.
I think he's commenting on the fact most people here approve of killing jews.
He's like "so you guys love hitler?" in a kind of sarcastic way.
It appears he's trying to guilt people out of wanting to kill jews.
Everyone wants to kill jews but no one wants to be compared to hitler, he had a silly moustache.
So I think it's a good tactic by Mr spock, very logical, make killing jews seem like an ugly or unpleasant pasttime by associating it with hitler.

Just who do you get this "feeling" from? I don't recall anyone on this site ever mentioning him as "great" . Perhaps you can put a link as to where I can see all of these people who say that. :shrug:

im not talking about users from this site, its a personal feeling.

Hitler was "great" on the same sort of scale used to measure Pol Pot or Shaka.

Spock

I doubt anyone exept the iranian president and nazis think hitler was a great man.

Anyone with a little knowledge of history will know he was an complete disaster.

Just who do you get this "feeling" from? I don't recall anyone on this site ever mentioning him as "great" . Perhaps you can put a link as to where I can see all of these people who say that. :shrug:

Mr Spock is a jew.
I think he's commenting on the fact most people here approve of killing jews.
He's like "so you guys love hitler?" in a kind of sarcastic way.
It appears he's trying to guilt people out of wanting to kill jews.
Everyone wants to kill jews but no one wants to be compared to hitler, he had a silly moustache.
So I think it's a good tactic by Mr spock, very logical, make killing jews seem like an ugly or unpleasant pasttime by associating it with hitler.

no, nothing like that all. people who promote killing of jews arent worth a thread.

Actually, Hitler was a great man, but he was a Megalomaniac, his family, was Jewish, and when the depression started, he realized he could get away with blaming the Jews, and did. had Japan not attacked Pearl Harbor, he would have conquered the world. since the US didn't want to Join WWII, he could have controlled all of Europe eventually, then he'd move westward, and when he had everything together we wouldn't stand a chance, when the Japanese jumped the gun, it alerted us of this, and the US Joined in, which ultimately brought victory.

I am going to say it very simply. There is no greatness in the murdering of anyone!

...I think he's commenting on the fact most people here approve of killing jews...

Who here approves of killing Jews? :eek: That's just wrong and disgusting. :(

The Bible says the Jews are God's chosen people and anyone who messes with them has to answer to God. I wouldn't have the b@lls to try that one. :eek:

Who here approves of killing Jews? :eek: That's just wrong and disgusting. :(

The Bible says the Jews are God's chosen people and anyone who messes with them has to answer to God. I wouldn't have the b@lls to try that one. :eek:
The "chosen people" label has been taken out of context i'm afraid!
It all revolves according to your definition of "God".

it was the occultists like helena blavatsky and alice bailey who made hitler kill everyone because they said that the jews were inferior and deserved their karma because they killed jesus. and they said that aryans are the most evolved humans.

LOL, so once again, it was the woman's fault. :D

We are all held to the 10 Comandments.

Who here approves of killing Jews? That's just wrong and disgusting.
No one much admits it, but check out any palestinian/israeli thread and it's pretty clear every liberal atheist and obviously every muslim, revels in the death of jews.

The Bible says the Jews are God's chosen people and anyone who messes with them has to answer to God. I wouldn't have the b@lls to try that one.
No one much admits it, but me, and this is why.
I just want to shake you and get it through to you that you are a pagan who has been brainwashed.
If you really were a christian deep down wouldn't you find it easy to avoid contradicting your religion like you constantly do? Shouldn't it be ingrained into the person you are?
It isn't, and it's because you are a western european polytheist by blood.

Jesus was a middle eastern jew, who got weird ideas from guru beatnicks on his trip to india when he was a teenager.
Meanwhile our ancestors were ripping it up pagan style in western europe, flourishing as artistic poetic beautifull honourable people. Who sometimes fucked dead horses in rituals, but whatever.
It could be worse.

Look at how messed up the middle east is, you know it, those are the people who you worship. Jews, muslims, whatever, they're different sects of the same people, people who are your sworn rivals on this planet.
Those sinister maniacs have diseased our people with abrahamic religion.
They have us believing they are God's chosen people.
Don't you see? You believe middle easterners, the people you see on the news in dirty rags chanting "death to bush" like hyenas in the street, are superior to you as a person of western european descent. They were made better by your god apparently.

While god was busy perfecting the jew (might want to have another crack at it if you ask me) where were we? Why wasn't he paying attention to us?
If that god you speak of prefers them over you why don't you tell him to go fuck himself and fall back into the loving embrace of the many buffed tough gods who nurtured your people from the begining?
You are their chosen people.
They were with us long before we ever even heard of this jew god.
He mosies along as a johnny come lately and says, "hmmm, my guys are better than you guys" and you just bow down and accept his appraisal? Worshipping all of these ugly sinister strangers above your own people and your ancestors traditional beliefs?

It makes me sick. Shame on you.

We are all held to the 10 Comandments.
No, we aren't.
It's desert filth.

read here what alice bailey says about the jews: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey#On_the_Jewish_people

Specifically, she was of the opinion that Jews embody the characteristics of "materialism, cruelty and a spiritual conservatism" and the "separative, selfish, lower concrete mind."

In 1948, after the war and the Holocaust, she wrote that "there are eighty percent of other people in the concentration camps, only twenty percent Jews," and that Jews have not only repudiated the Messiah, but they have forgotten their unique relation to humanity."

here she says that jews are sons of god: "Every class of human beings is a group of brothers. Catholics, Jews, Gentiles, occidentals and orientals are all the sons of God." She stated that all religions originate from the same spiritual source, and that humanity will eventually come to realize this, and as they do so, the result will be the emergence of a universal world religion and a "new world order."

some day i hope occultism will rule the world. they tried to take over the world, but instead it was stupid hitler who messed it all up.

Hitler was a crackpot. And more dangerous than a regular crackpot because he knew how to commit horrendous crimes under the guise of self defence. And make it popular among enough people to achieve the Crime of the Century.

He is the testimony to how easily led people are into doing things that destroy humanity

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Holocaust123.JPG

http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/wlc/image/07/0756.jpg

The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.

Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Hitler was a crackpot. And more dangerous than a regular crackpot because he knew how to commit horrendous crimes under the guise of self defence. And make it popular among enough people to achieve the Crime of the Century.

He is the testimony to how easily led people are into doing things that destroy humanity

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Holocaust123.JPG

http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/wlc/image/07/0756.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

what are YOU doing here? havent you used the holocaust enough for your goals?

dont pretend to care, ill bet your next post will be another comparison between israel and the NAZIS. :rolleyes:

No one is exempt from being led around by the nose. All you have to do is step back and take a look at yourself.

No one is exempt from being led around by the nose. All you have to do is step back and take a look at yourself.

thats a laugh, considering you use the holocaust constantly to reply to every opinion i make even if it is totally unrelated.

like in here:

ludacris. nobody here shouted when genji, brian folly and other love birds of sci forum said all israelis should die because <fill>.

not only that, but the same people who criticize BR are mostly terrorists sympathizers, who justify their acts.

i say go back to your holes.

Spock:
What holes? Gaza? Auschwitz? Under occupation or puppet dictators?




i think you secretly admire Hitler.

thats a laugh, considering you use the holocaust constantly to reply to every opinion i make even if it is totally unrelated.


Its only unrelated if you miss the point.

When the witness Bach Zelewski was asked how Ohlendorf could admit the murder of 90,000 people, he replied:

"I am of the opinion that when, for years, for decades, the doctrine is preached that the Slav race is an inferior race, and Jews not even human, then such an outcome is inevitable."

Its only unrelated if you miss the point.

you did it deliberately to provoke me, so go to hell and make like a banana and split.

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement.

Hell no.

Hitler truly was a great man, whether or not he was a good man or not is up for scrutiny.

Maybe the world would be a better place by now if Hitler had his way, maybe not.

I think you secretly admire Hitler.


http://solidvox.com/Muslims-say-God-Bless-Hitler.jpg

Hitler truly was a great man, whether or not he was a good man or not is up for scrutiny.

Maybe the world would be a better place by now if Hitler had his way, maybe not.

How in the hell could he be a great man when he destroyed his own country, murdered millions of people, murdered his own people and basically was a asshole. :shrug:

Could the average person ever get themselves into a position to do such things?

Was he different than the Egyptian pharoes with their slaves? Or the Romans with theirs? What about the Khans? In a thousand years will he be seen as a cruel leader, but a great one none-the-less?

As a leader, he was good. As a human being he was scum and deserved a far worse fate.

Was he different than the Egyptian pharoes with their slaves? Or the Romans with theirs? What about the Khans? In a thousand years will he be seen as a cruel leader, but a great one none-the-less?

As a leader, he was good. As a human being he was scum and deserved a far worse fate.

Agreed.

I still stand by the fact that the world could have been a much better place if Hitler had his way.

Agreed.

I still stand by the fact that the world could have been a much better place if Hitler had his way.


??? he would have killed my Mom. Jews weren't eh only ones slaughtered under his rule.
In what way would it ever have been better for that monster to have his way?

In the long term the world might have been a better place with Hitler's ideals.
If Hitler's ideals were correct then the world probably would be better.
If they were wrong then I'm pretty sure it wouldn't.

I'm in no way saying I agree with Hitler's ideals, just that society could have been better off with them.

It would have been a crappy place, where free thought was not allowed, and any personal interests become subverted to the interests of the state. It would have sucked balls.

and white balls only at that.

Maybe could might zxc

Some of his greatest crimes are making things "evil" that were formerly "good". For a host of reasons I do not consider him a great man. He set back humanity quite a ways, did not improve things much at all.

he did do some things which could be classified as good but he was an all round eivel person

Didn't the Nazis significantly advance technology, especially space technology?

How is that any different from what America achieved, after successfully destroying the indigenous population and chattel slavery?

The German scientists certainly accomplished alot, but they could have done that with any financing, they didn't necessarily need Hitler.

The German scientists certainly accomplished alot, but they could have done that with any financing, they didn't necessarily need Hitler.

But it's never just a case of money. You need leadership and direction. A common goal which galvanizes society. This was Hitler's achievement as far as Germany is concerned.

Every single company or organization works on the same principle.

How is that any different from what America achieved, after successfully destroying the indigenous population and chattel slavery?

why are there almost no indians in america anymore? where have they gone? were they killed?

Yorda, it is called integration....they integrated into our society! So now in many instances it is hard to tell what is/was Native American and what is just average Joe.

why are there almost no indians in america anymore? where have they gone? were they killed?

How many do you think there were to begin with compared to today? And I don't know where you live, but we have plenty of people claiming Native American blood around here. And if you can prove it, you get a gvmt check. I'd like to know how many of those get mailed out a month.

Didn't the Nazis significantly advance technology, especially space technology?


Nope.
Von Braun and that other dude the Russians imprisoned did.
Not only that, the nazis stifled any efforts towards space travel. Heck - it got Braun in trouble with the gestapo when he mentioned it. They only wanted longer range bombs.

Edit --- they did come up with some noteworthy military gear though (like better machine guns, and tanks).

quark..it is said to read comments from people ( i really dont harm you) who doas not have any IDEA about real history....like ever....im sorry

I wouldn't say great... but he was indeed clever. But nothing anyone should say with any great pride.

How many do you think there were to begin with compared to today?

today there is like 280 million people in USA. so before the english people came there i guess there was at least 100 million indians there.

but its a guess right?

But it's never just a case of money. You need leadership and direction. A common goal which galvanizes society. This was Hitler's achievement as far as Germany is concerned.

Every single company or organization works on the same principle.

Which was developed long before Hitler ever came to power. It was in use in many countries to keep those countries running smoothly and orderly for many years before Hitler used the same ideas that others invented.

I'm in no way saying I agree with Hitler's ideals, just that society could have been better off with them.


But look at Germany today why don't you. You'll notice its being run democratically and is in great financial shape plus a very good world leader. This is being done without Hitlers ideals but with the cooporation of many citizens that make it work. There's a good "galvanization" of its citizens that are leading the way forward into the future with good intentions in mind for everyones well being, not just a few.

Exactly. They adored hitler and saw him as agreat man, but they had their own ideas. Goring wnted to get rich, Himler wnted the master race (he was even worse then hitler on that subject), and all wanted to please hitler. But, it was controlled anarchy, quite oposite to Stalins russia, eventhough he was an equally bloddy tyrant.

you seem like an expert on the subject. Where did you study at?

But look at Germany today why don't you. You'll notice its being run democratically and is in great financial shape plus a very good world leader. This is being done without Hitlers ideals but with the cooporation of many citizens that make it work. There's a good "galvanization" of its citizens that are leading the way forward into the future with good intentions in mind for everyones well being, not just a few.

That's not getting them a permanent seat on the UNSC.

In a way, he was "great", but not a good man. He wasn't a good man, he was obviously evil, but what I mean by "great" is that he was very charismatic and very militarily and politically intelligent. He was a strong leader, although an evil one.

So yes, like most I do disagree with his actions, but he is "great" in terms of power.

Andrew Jackson advocated genocide, could we argue over how good a man he was? He pushed Americans to remove the NATIVES, the Native Americans, from THEIR OWN land. And yet, the hilarious part is when Americans claim that "they do not support occupation, and that Israel is the true owner of the land". It is quite obvious Palestinians owned the land in '48, if not officially then by the fact that they LIVED THERE. And occupation? America is an occupation.

If the Natives decided they wanted their land back, would Americans be willing to give it back? No, they would probably fight back.

Do you think Hitler would have made Time's Man of the Year?...oh wait...

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement.

people who are stolen their land, shot to death, persecuted, lead to hunger and deseases, die in thousands while trying to fight back for their land...are "terrorists"

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement?



What surface is your surface?

people who are stolen their land, shot to death, persecuted, lead to hunger and deseases, die in thousands while trying to fight back for their land...are "terrorists"

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement?



What surface is your surface?

Apparantly with the American way of thinking, all those who fight back for their land or fight against their opressors....are terrorists.

Then I guess America was founded by terrorists.

Apparantly with the American way of thinking, all those who fight back for their land or fight against their opressors....are terrorists.

Then I guess America was founded by terrorists.

exactly if America invades Israel :p and kills its people while they try to fight back, the Jews are terrorists, and America is taking whats theirs.

That's not getting them a permanent seat on the UNSC.

As with over 200 other countries. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean that much in the worlds economic ways, does it.

Do you think Hitler would have made Time's Man of the Year?...oh wait...

oh wait, what? trying to parallel Russian's President Putin to Hitler? :mad: Bush along with Chaney fits better to these parallels.

Nope.
Von Braun and that other dude the Russians imprisoned did.

Yeh, and err.. von Braun was what?

http://www.sufoi.dk/billeder/ufo-mail/2003/um03-13f.jpg

Von Braun in suit.

http://photos23.flickr.com/28745593_40d0de9288.jpg

Von Braun circled.

http://www2.arnes.si/~gljsentvid10/Wernher_von_Braun.jpg

Wernher von Braun stands at his desk in the Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama, in May 1964, with models of rockets developed and in progress.

Well apparently being a Nazi is no deterrent to getting ahead in the world. :eek:

Hitler was an absolute genius. Yes, he may have committed horrendous acts of atrocity, but nobody can doubt his intelligence and passion. Read some of his quotes over the Internet, and you'll see how knowledgeable he was.

Hitler was an absolute genius. Yes, he may have committed horrendous acts of atrocity, but nobody can doubt his intelligence and passion. Read some of his quotes over the Internet, and you'll see how knowledgeable he was.

LOL :D

LOL :D

What's so funny?

He wasn't that smart. He overestimated his military's ability to fight major wars on two fronts.

He wasn't that smart. He overestimated his military's ability to fight major wars on two fronts.

I think overconfidence was one of his major downfalls. He should have never broken the Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviets.

Read some of his quotes over the Internet, and you'll see how knowledgeable he was.

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."

"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think."

- Adolf Hitler


No wonder they don't want us reading Mein Kempf. It's a training manual for the C.I.A.

Those are some of my favorite quotes of all time. How well they apply to today is remarkable.

I do believe that if Hitler had used his charisma, passion, and influence for the good of Humanity, he would be far more successful than those like Bush.

Is this the common opinion now underneath the surface? sort of a silent agreement.

Hitler was a horrible man, but an effective leader. He was able to manipulate millions of people to follow his cause and erected a war-machine out of seemly 3rd world Germany in 1933 in the course of just 6 years.

The Nazis developed a cocaine-based drug to boost the performance of their soldiers in combat during World War II and tested it on prisoners in 1944, according to a report in the latest edition of Focus magazine.

"It was Hitler's last secret weapon to win a war he had already lost long ago," said criminologist Wolf Kemper, who is about to publish a book on the Third Reich's use of drugs called "Nazis on Speed".

The drug, codenamed D-IX, was tested at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp north of Berlin, where prisoners loaded with 20kg packs were reported to have marched 90km without rest.

"After 24 hours, most were completely exhausted," one former prisoner wrote in his diary, according to Kemper's book.

Focus said the Nazis had planned to issue the drug to all their soldiers, but Allied forces closed in before the project could get off the ground.

Kemper said that from 1933 the Nazis had campaigned against the use of drugs, particularly cocaine, which was widely used in the 1920s.

But as early as 1939, German soldiers were supplied with the amphetamine Pervitine, with about 29 million pills being delivered to the troops from April to December that year.

What's so funny?

For starters, he would probably have you killed..

Hitler was an absolute genius. Yes, he may have committed horrendous acts of atrocity, but nobody can doubt his intelligence and passion. Read some of his quotes over the Internet, and you'll see how knowledgeable he was.

Name ONE invention or technique he himself came up with. Can you please link me to it also. Thanks.

Hitler was a horrible man, but an effective leader. He was able to manipulate millions of people to follow his cause and erected a war-machine out of seemly 3rd world Germany in 1933 in the course of just 6 years.

Instead of trying to become an economic power to have his country at the top of all countries selling products to others thereby making his own country strong and admired by other nations for their businesses and trade practices. Just like they are now, without his help. Interesting isn't it?

Hitler gets an F-
In the end(how we all get graded):

He empowered the very nation he loathed and wanted to destroy(Russia).

Destroyed the nation he loved, Germany - utter Ruins.

Was utterly defeated, causing absolute embarrassment to the so-called master race, now very much even today, in "Apology" mode for being in existence, never mind ruling the world.

Lost countless German genius before, during and after the war because of his actions. (Einstein, Von Braun etc.)

Enforced the predjudice that Germans are naturally aggressive.

Caused the death and destruction of millions and put us, possibly prematurely into the nuclear age.

Compared with other "Great" people such as Alexandros and Frederick - definitely a F-. Alexandros has a short lived empire as well(though the longer lasting Ptolemaic, Selekid, Pontos and of course Antigonid nations came of it) - but his influence was certainly a + to hellenistic culture and people WANTED to remember him. Frederick is still remembered fondly in Germany. Hitler is not, they want to forget him, badly.

But look at Germany today why don't you. You'll notice its being run democratically and is in great financial shape plus a very good world leader. This is being done without Hitlers ideals but with the cooporation of many citizens that make it work. There's a good "galvanization" of its citizens that are leading the way forward into the future with good intentions in mind for everyones well being, not just a few.

Still could have been better. Why can't you see that?

Still could have been better. Why can't you see that?

Because racism isn't something that we need in a world full of different peoples. To say one human is better than another is sheer stupidity!

Because racism isn't something that we need in a world full of different peoples. To say one human is better than another is sheer stupidity!

In other words, for a quiet life we will ignore reality, even if it means the destruction of our entire history and culture.

ya know, if all it takes to be great is changing the world, does that mean the 9/11 pilots were great?

does great necessarily have to mean good?

In other words, for a quiet life we will ignore reality, even if it means the destruction of our entire history and culture.


How's that? I don't see anything happening to Germany today that makes it worry about its "culture". If anything it is gaining more leadership throughout the European nations and the entire world as I write. Just what is being lost to you? If you feel threatened then that is a personal problem within yourself not what is happening in reality. The ebb and flow of peoples throughout time has been happening without your consent and will continue to do so. There's nothing you can do to prevent any human to seek partnership with another no matter what ethnic background or religion they might have. Trying to stop humanity from being whatever they want to be is like trying to stop a dam bursting with your finger, it just won't happen.

does great necessarily have to mean good?

I've always equated greatness with goodness myself. Can you tell me why you would think otherwise?

I've always equated greatness with goodness myself. Can you tell me why you would think otherwise?

Me too!

How's that? I don't see anything happening to Germany today that makes it worry about its "culture". If anything it is gaining more leadership throughout the European nations and the entire world as I write. Just what is being lost to you? If you feel threatened then that is a personal problem within yourself not what is happening in reality. The ebb and flow of peoples throughout time has been happening without your consent and will continue to do so. There's nothing you can do to prevent any human to seek partnership with another no matter what ethnic background or religion they might have. Trying to stop humanity from being whatever they want to be is like trying to stop a dam bursting with your finger, it just won't happen.

Germany's recent rise is INSPITE of Hitler. Germans work together and work hard. Also the west helped rebuild Germany with the Marshall plan. Who knows where they'd be without that.

Hitler gets an F-
In the end(how we all get graded):

He empowered the very nation he loathed and wanted to destroy(Russia).

Destroyed the nation he loved, Germany - utter Ruins.

Was utterly defeated, causing absolute embarrassment to the so-called master race, now very much even today, in "Apology" mode for being in existence, never mind ruling the world.

Lost countless German genius before, during and after the war because of his actions. (Einstein, Von Braun etc.)

Enforced the predjudice that Germans are naturally aggressive.

Caused the death and destruction of millions and put us, possibly prematurely into the nuclear age.

Compared with other "Great" people such as Alexandros and Frederick - definitely a F-. Alexandros has a short lived empire as well(though the longer lasting Ptolemaic, Selekid, Pontos and of course Antigonid nations came of it) - but his influence was certainly a + to hellenistic culture and people WANTED to remember him. Frederick is still remembered fondly in Germany. Hitler is not, they want to forget him, badly.

Setting aside the issue of his being evil...and assuming for argument's sake that you can be evil and "great" simultaneously.

I agree with the post above, but would add to it that Hitler had a paranoid streak, a tendency to think he was a better starategist than his generals, and yet his strategic sense (and paranoia) led him to attacking and invading Russia and vastly overcomplicating Germany's situation. He was so bad that even very loyal miliatry men, over time, started reluctantly agreeing that he might need to be assassinated for the good of the nation.

Given that he was also evil by almost any definition, it is a stroke of luck that he was so bad as a strategist *and* arrogant enough to think otherwise. Had he been fighting the war on a single front, or had the sense to not essentially repeat Napoleon's disasterous march into Russia, lord only knows how bad things might be today. (I'm not saying that a great leader needs to be a great general, but if he's not, then a great leader needs to know when to defer to his generals and when not to.)

He had a remarkable ability to motivate the masses by playing on their nationalism and their prejudices, but other than that, he lacked the skills you'd typically want to see in a leader. He's was a "great" propagandist, but great leadership takes a little more.

I've always equated greatness with goodness myself. Can you tell me why you would think otherwise?

well maybe its just me, but i connect power, might with greatness, especially in context of history, with all the kings and leaders being called great...

but then again i don't share the same expirience with english...

this discussion is in my eyes about the definition of "great". hitler did things that brought his country forward, but these things are mostly ignored, because of the horrible things overshadowing it...

well maybe its just me, but i connect power, might with greatness, especially in context of history, with all the kings and leaders being called great...

but then again i don't share the same expirience with english...

this discussion is in my eyes about the definition of "great". hitler did things that brought his country forward, but these things are mostly ignored, because of the horrible things overshadowing it...

There is a difference between True Power and transient power. Hitler had a little bit of one and a lot of the other. Power is the ability to hold on to and make happen what you plan, accept no substitute! How much change did he make that he planned for happen and how long did it last?

Before we all condemn him to an eternity of shame, we should be aware that nothing is totally black and totally white. There was goodness in him, as even the worst tyrants in the world are not abominations from the black lagoon. Hitler reveals that potential that any one of us have for performing evil acts. He was human, one of us, whether we like it or not.

I am not agreeing with his ideas of a supreme race at all. That sort of thinking will get us all killed. He would have me executed for telling him that he is no better or worse then a Jew. There were others, twisted in their time.

Here we are writing and reading about him. Why is that...well obvious he had Charisma. He was brilliant and insane both. That is something to watch out for. It can sneak up and baM!!! It changes the world forever. I honestly don't care if he was evil or good. What matters to me is what I can learn from his example, how to avoid what was stupid and how to implement that which was brilliant. Our USA government has already done the same thing. So have others.

So was Hitler great? The answer...yes and no. And that is the actual answer. I can say he sucked donkey balls and you can say he sucked Stalin's balls, but there was a time in his life when everybody around him worshiped him as Great. He was the greatest thing in the eyes of those he charmed. Many died
proudly for him. Those are the facts. To them...he was great until the end. Time does not belong to any one of us to dictate, are we going to be like him now?

There is no final answer. The only answer that is final is yes to some and no to others. Thats all.

He was a genius of politics and propoganda, and his cabinet did jumpstart the economy and and build lots of public works.

For starters, he would probably have you killed..

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that for a second. However, I don't think it's fair to undermine his abilities just because he didn't like my kind.

Name ONE invention or technique he himself came up with. Can you please link me to it also. Thanks.

You don't have to invent something to be a genius.

In a way, Hitler sort of saved Germany. It was on the brink of chaos before he came to power.

He was a genius of politics and propoganda, and his cabinet did jumpstart the economy and and build lots of public works.

So did FDR in America.

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that for a second. However, I don't think it's fair to undermine his abilities just because he didn't like my kind.
You don't have to invent something to be a genius.

That's fine, then what did he do that was so damn great other than nothing at all. He ruined Germany, now that's great isn't it.

That's fine, then what did he do that was so damn great other than nothing at all. He ruined Germany, now that's great isn't it.

**Sigh**

I never said he was great. Read my posts.

Hitler was only great because some people consider his mein komph a work of genius. He was also a masterful little bastard.

Napolean was better, in both deed, brilliance, and character. And unlike Hitler, he wasn't evil.

Napolean was better, in both deed, brilliance, and character. And unlike Hitler, he wasn't evil.

I have to say that I agree.

So did FDR in America.
Yes, he did. What's your point?
Napolean was better, in both deed, brilliance, and character. And unlike Hitler, he wasn't evil.
He had a way cooler style too, but why does that mean Hitler was less or more great?

Actually he was quite an asshole. If you look at what he did and why he did it you too would see him for a total egotistical tyrant who dictated hate and spewed forth lies about people only to gain power and fame for himself no matter who was murdered to attain that goal. :mad:He was quite an asshole? There's an understatement. But it's also irrelevant. If you consider the impact he had on world history, you can not deny he was a great man. Not great meaning good, great meaning formidable.

If he had never been born, I don't think the world we live in today would be at all recognizable to us.

The more ya all keep talking about him the greater he becomes. Stop talking about him and forget about him...he ain't so great. Why...because he is taking up a greater amount of your time that you could of used thinking about other things more relevant to your own life and situations. Give it break.

I can see it now...Hitler's ghost watching this thread and thinking to himself
"Wa Ha haha haha.. Dey can nit stoop takking abat mich!!! Der minds er shtuck on mina gretness. Mwa ha ha ha ha ha !"

Because racism isn't something that we need in a world full of different peoples. To say one human is better than another is sheer stupidity!

If the world ended up as just one master race there wouldn't be racism anyway.

It is sheer stupidity to think all people are equal. PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUAL.

I don't believe Hitler's views that all Jews were inferior and all blacks were inferior however.

In what way are people "not equal"?

Gnenetics tell us that the concept of race is virtually non measurerable.

If the world ended up as just one master race there wouldn't be racism anyway.

It is sheer stupidity to think all people are equal. PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUAL.

I don't believe Hitler's views that all Jews were inferior and all blacks were inferior however.

If people are not equal, who do you view as being inferior to you for example?

You seem to veer on both sides of the equation at the moment. Was Hitler a great man? If one could consider a meglomaniac hell bent on world domination great? Then yes. At the end of the day, Hitler will be reminded as being an insane individual who lied and slaughtered millions of people. He ruled by instilling fear in the populace and through that fear, forced the Germans to comply to his whim. He attempted to dumb them down, forcing educational facilities to only teach history as he saw it (lets not forget the book burnings). As several have pointed out before in this thread, he was paranoid about those around him and the people he ruled, so much so that his own subordinates were considering his assassination.

A great man does not rule by fear. A great man does not slaughter millions of people because he considered them inferior. A great man then does not hide in a bunker, while ordering thousands of young men to their death, so he can try to stave off his defeat, while his own people died in the destruction he brought upon them. A great man does not kill himself and make his aides and their families follow him, nor would he even suggest it. Hitler was not a great man. He was just a man who failed at life and took millions down with him.

Hitler was not a great man, If it weren't for him, the middle east wouldn't be as unstable because Israel wouldn't exist. It's Ironic in a way, that Israel owes its existence to a man that was determined to kill them. I doubt zionism would take the root it did, without Hitler.

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that for a second. However, I don't think it's fair to undermine his abilities just because he didn't like my kind.

Well.. that's why I thought what you said was 'funny'..
Why defend a dude that would have you killed out of pure hatred ?
Hitler may have been good at manipulating people, fuck a whole country, but that's where his geniality ends.
On top of that it was the crashed economy that provided him with the opportunity to rise through manipulation. He screwed his own people in other to gain power.
In short, he was an crazy bloodthirsty narcissistic racist prick.

If the world ended up as just one master race there wouldn't be racism anyway.

It is sheer stupidity to think all people are equal. PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUAL.

I don't believe Hitler's views that all Jews were inferior and all blacks were inferior however.

People being equal does not mean everyone is the same.

It means you have as much right to get the same opportunities as everyone else.

What you do with them is up to you.

Hitler was not a great man, If it weren't for him, the middle east wouldn't be as unstable because Israel wouldn't exist. It's Ironic in a way, that Israel owes its existence to a man that was determined to kill them. I doubt zionism would take the root it did, without Hitler.

Hitler was definately not a good man. However, I don't know that you can lay the creation of Israel at the feet of Hitler. The Zionist movement began not the the 20th Century but in the 19th century. The Facist movement led by Hitler did heavily influence the Bath Party and other Arab political thinking.

I just do not think there is anyway to put a good face on Hitler...other than reminding us that we as humans are capable of the most inhumane acts.

No shit. But hitler's actions definitely spurred on the zionist movement, no doubt about that.

If the world ended up as just one master race there wouldn't be racism anyway.
Sure there would. There was a time when the Irish weren't considered "white". If Hitler had wiped out all the non-whites, he'd soon be defining white more and more narrowly. If there were only "whites" left, he'd prefer whites with blue eyes. On and on.

Hitler was not a great man, If it weren't for him, the middle east wouldn't be as unstable because Israel wouldn't exist. It's Ironic in a way, that Israel owes its existence to a man that was determined to kill them. I doubt zionism would take the root it did, without Hitler.

so thats what troubles you?

so thats what troubles you?

You mean other than the fact that he killed millions and got away with it, and the west had to shift it's guilt elsewhere. Yeah. That troubles me.

You mean other than the fact that he killed millions and got away with it, and the west had to shift it's guilt elsewhere. Yeah. That troubles me.

how thoughtful of you. :rolleyes:

Hitler was a genius and played an important role in history, so yes I say he was in fact a great man. He fits into many definitions of the word 'great' and I believe he was man of the year in time magazine. However achieving greatness does not make you a good person. Hitler was definately a sick man and I would never condone the actions he took while in control of germany. He will be remembered for many generations to come so I believe that does make him "great"