Your best reason for not comitting suicide

[Fraggle Rocker]

If that isn't enough, consider what it will do to the people you love. You'll basically kill your parents, whose lives will never be the same and will never be truly happy again. Your brothers, sisters, friends and significant others will all be haunted by it, blaming themselves for not helping even though you never reached out or they didn't know how to handle it. You taking the easy way puts all that on their heads, and they'll never be free of it. That is just about the worst thing you can do to a person.

For many people (perhaps most) who commit suicide, one of the motivations is to punish the people who love them. They're angry at them (for a zillion possible reasons) and they want them to suffer--preferably for the rest of their lives.

Killing self is very difficult: not only do you have to overcome animal instinct and fear, but you have only one chance get the mechanics right - fail, and your suffering is compounded by physical restraint. This is not something to attempt on a whim.

The latest advance in this technology is the helium balloon. (That's what it's called but it's not quite that simple.) It has many advantages, including the option to change your mind until the very last second, without suffering debilitating consequences. It takes a few minutes, so it gives you time to ponder your decision. It was invented by a doctor. It can be easily assembled from components that attract no attention, and kept on hand for years. There was a big article on this in the Washington Post a year or so ago.

And yet there's plenty of people you'd be glad they offed themselves.

And those are never the ones you wish would do it!

 

[Mazulu]

For many people (perhaps most) who commit suicide, one of the motivations is to punish the people who love them. They're angry at them (for a zillion possible reasons) and they want them to suffer--preferably for the rest of their lives.

The latest advance in this technology is the helium balloon. (That's what it's called but it's not quite that simple.) It has many advantages, including the option to change your mind until the very last second, without suffering debilitating consequences. It takes a few minutes, so it gives you time to ponder your decision. It was invented by a doctor. It can be easily assembled from components that attract no attention, and kept on hand for years. There was a big article on this in the Washington Post a year or so ago.

And those are never the ones you wish would do it!

Helium balloon? It just got me thinking of hot air balloons.

 

[Asguard]

For many people (perhaps most) who commit suicide, one of the motivations is to punish the people who love them. They're angry at them (for a zillion possible reasons) and they want them to suffer--preferably for the rest of their lives.

The latest advance in this technology is the helium balloon. (That's what it's called but it's not quite that simple.) It has many advantages, including the option to change your mind until the very last second, without suffering debilitating consequences. It takes a few minutes, so it gives you time to ponder your decision. It was invented by a doctor. It can be easily assembled from components that attract no attention, and kept on hand for years. There was a big article on this in the Washington Post a year or so ago.

And those are never the ones you wish would do it!

Wow, from someone who claims to always be a scientist that is an even more ignorant and dangerous and just plain stupid statement than the other one

Once again those who attempt and commit suicide believe that they are doing there loved ones a favor by killing themselves. That's what depression does, it turns your own thoughts against yourself.

You want to know what it's like, get a recording saying "your useless, everything you do will fail, no matter what you do you will never be good enough, if you weren't here she would be so much better off, she could find someone worthwhile, everyone would be better off if you weren't here" and play it on repeat forever. THATS what depression is like, no matter what happens or what you do your own mind is trying to bring you down and you believe that the best thing for those who love you is if you had never been born

 

[Quantum Quack]

Main reason for sticking around is that I am a sado-masochist. I just love the idea of the "climbing mountains" , forcing my body to the limit, to watch the most painfully beautiful sun rise ever.....
Main reason for sticking around is that I am a sado-mascochist. I just love staying up all night at a local club dancing with out end only to wake up the next day with a hang over and the need to do it all again ......
Main reason to stick around is to get a buz from allowing every one else a chance to "enjoy the terrible pain" of my existence. [chuckle]

the main reason though is that I love the pain of living life to the best...
Main reason for hanging around is to see news like this piece [this morning]

2013/11/15 ABC News
Sixty-five Australians are among more than 300 people arrested after Canadian authorities smashed what they say is one of the worst child sex abuse rings they have ever seen.
Canadian police say their investigation into a multi-million dollar child sex abuse video website has led to the arrests of nearly 350 people internationally, including teachers, police officers, doctors and priests.
"A total of 386 victims of the ring were rescued from harm worldwide, including six in Australia - five in Western Australia, and one in the Australian Capital Territory."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-15/global-child-pornography-ring-smashed-by-canadian-and-australia/5093498?WT.mc_id=newsmail

 

[Undefined]

This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?

Hi, M R.

Two equally cogent reasons: Insatiable curiosity and serendipitous expectation. The first implies I don't want to miss out on what tomorrow will bring, for its own sake, irrespective; the second implies hope that the next important insight (who knows whence it will come) will make things better than they were yesterday.

Together those two reasons (especially when taking the personal/family effects into consideration) totally exclude me from the 'at risk' type in this category.

Besides, I also conclude from history and personal observation that the next 'big idea' may come from anywhere (ie, from anybody), especially in this age of internet-information synergy which brings all sorts of minds into th equation when serendipitous insights/ideas may occur to anyone.

So, please, anyone considering suicide, be aware that you have potential to add to the sum of humanity and science advancement, whether you know it or not. The potential is THERE in your intellect/mind, however educated or not you feel you may be. There is no greater waste than YOUR potential future contribution to society, in whatever capacity/action it may take form in. You could be necessary to save another at a crucial moment/event which IF you had committed suicide you would not BE there at a crucial moment. And of course, your suicide may have repercussions beyond your own tragedy, and may affect millions adversely, for who knows what crucial part of the whole you are in any one sense or other of future potential and dynamics.

So, please be strong and keep your eye on the future potential and not past/present transient adversity.

Oh, and first and foremost be wise in your dietary/nutritional intake....for most chemical imbalances and psychological storms may arise from vitamin/mineral deficiencies which affect adversely all your body-mind functions to the extent that sometimes 'mind-body' pathology like depression and reaction mood and over-sensitivity can be ameliorated by lifestyle and dietary changes to allow your mind-body chemistry-psychology to re-balance and allow your interpretation of incoming stimuli/information to be more in context rather than in a 'mood' of despair which may be caused by chemical triggers/imbalances activating/allowing more primitive level 'fight-or-flight' autonomous parts of the brain to take over and 'color' everything else as 'danger' or 'violent' or 'hopeless' etc....which brings about the 'depression' syndrome which many people encounter at some stage in their lives because of illness/trauma etc....but which most recover from because they resume good nutrition and healthy activity/thinking.

Good luck and good thinking in your life (brain-mind) reality. Eat healthy and sleep plenty. And you never know, one day you might have a big idea which saves millions! Cheers, M R, everyone.

 

[suomynona]

Why not?

Are we not just a ball of infinite stupidity perpetuating ourselves towards our own extinction, whilst also in the midst of trying to find answers to questions which can only serve the purpose of satisfying our thought?

Hypothetically, what if we find the answers we've always been searching for? What if we manage to grasp exactly what is happening within a black hole? What if we finally understand what consciousness is? What if we do manage to achieve time travel?

The only thing I can be sure of in this world is that it will come to an end at some point in the future. Whether or not we want to believe it, the purpose of life is simply to provide humanity with the ability to continue on without us. We do this by reproducing. After we birth a child also capable of birthing another child, we have fulfilled our purpose as a species. This cycle will continue on until there are no conditions which satisfy our ability to reproduce, e.g. the sun burns out, humanity wipes itself out, etc.

What makes me obligated to continue this trend of recreating humans in order to live long enough to experience our impending doom? Social conditioning? Morality? Ethics?

 

[Mazulu]

Why not?

Are we not just a ball of infinite stupidity perpetuating ourselves towards our own extinction, whilst also in the midst of trying to find answers to questions which can only serve the purpose of satisfying our thought?

Hypothetically, what if we find the answers we've always been searching for? What if we manage to grasp exactly what is happening within a black hole? What if we finally understand what consciousness is? What if we do manage to achieve time travel?

The only thing I can be sure of in this world is that it will come to an end at some point in the future. Whether or not we want to believe it, the purpose of life is simply to provide humanity with the ability to continue on without us. We do this by reproducing. After we birth a child also capable of birthing another child, we have fulfilled our purpose as a species. This cycle will continue on until there are no conditions which satisfy our ability to reproduce, e.g. the sun burns out, humanity wipes itself out, etc.

What makes me obligated to continue this trend of recreating humans in order to live long enough to experience our impending doom? Social conditioning? Morality? Ethics?

You're not obligated to focus on such dreary details. You can just as easily focus upon beautifl things.

 

[spidergoat]

You're not obligated to focus on such dreary details. You can just as easily focus upon beautifl things.

Yes, like raping angels.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why not?

Are we not just a ball of infinite stupidity perpetuating ourselves towards our own extinction, whilst also in the midst of trying to find answers to questions which can only serve the purpose of satisfying our thought?

Hypothetically, what if we find the answers we've always been searching for? What if we manage to grasp exactly what is happening within a black hole? What if we finally understand what consciousness is? What if we do manage to achieve time travel?

The only thing I can be sure of in this world is that it will come to an end at some point in the future. Whether or not we want to believe it, the purpose of life is simply to provide humanity with the ability to continue on without us. We do this by reproducing. After we birth a child also capable of birthing another child, we have fulfilled our purpose as a species. This cycle will continue on until there are no conditions which satisfy our ability to reproduce, e.g. the sun burns out, humanity wipes itself out, etc.

What makes me obligated to continue this trend of recreating humans in order to live long enough to experience our impending doom? Social conditioning? Morality? Ethics?

I guess when you stop giving your life away to someone else and focus on your own life then you might find reason to continue...no doubt though if you wish you will all ways find some one ready to take what ever you are offering...greedy buggers that we are...

 

[Mazulu]

Yes, like raping angels.

You're a sick bastard.

 

[Mazulu]

Yes, like raping angels.

You're a disgusting person.

 

[Mazulu]

But don't worry spidergoat. The atheist moderators are already protecting you. You are an example of where atheism leads. You try to act all ethical, but then, in the face of innocence, you reveal how debase you really are

 

[(Q)]

Avoid reality.

Few here do that better than you.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Wow, from someone who claims to always be a scientist that is an even more ignorant and dangerous and just plain stupid statement than the other one Once again those who attempt and commit suicide believe that they are doing there loved ones a favor by killing themselves. That's what depression does, it turns your own thoughts against yourself. You want to know what it's like, get a recording saying "your useless, everything you do will fail, no matter what you do you will never be good enough, if you weren't here she would be so much better off, she could find someone worthwhile, everyone would be better off if you weren't here" and play it on repeat forever. THATS what depression is like, no matter what happens or what you do your own mind is trying to bring you down and you believe that the best thing for those who love you is if you had never been born

I recognize the merit in your post, but the insult was unnecessary.

Sure, there are people who honestly believe the world will be a better place without them. But there is also the indivual who honestly believes that his family members and other acquaintances (it's not quite correct to call them "friends" in this context) are so evil and influential that he'll never be able to be happy, so the best thing he can accomplish is revenge: ruin their lives with guilt and shame.

As to which demographic is the larger one, we'll probably never know because we can't interview people who have attempted suicide and succeeded. The ones who failed don't necessarily represent the ones who didn't, because suicide is rather difficult to do correctly (except of course in America where it seems that everybody has at least one gun). A failed attempt may simply be one that wasn't well planned or executed because deep down inside the person didn't really want to do it.

We can hardly dismiss the suspicion that a failed attempt could also fall into either of these categories. It could be a message to friends and family that this is the only way you can get through to them to let them know how miserable you feel, so they'll help you. It could also be a message telling them how much you hate them and that you were trying to actually make them suffer--even if you actually weren't.

It's not easy to decide whether either of us is right, or the statistics split 50/50. Use of insulting language doesn't make it easier to figure out.

Perhaps someone you loved committed suicide and that makes it a difficult topic for you. If so, I offer my heartfelt apology. But surely you know by now that SciForums is the last place on earth to expect kindness and sympathy. I wasn't even trying to be unkind, just reflecting on the families I've known who went through this.

 

[Mazulu]

Few here do that better than you.

Pay attention to what's important.

 

[wynn]

What makes me obligated to continue this trend of recreating humans in order to live long enough to experience our impending doom? Social conditioning? Morality? Ethics?

The lack of a better idea.
Perhaps you can find someone to blame this lack on, but then that's probably not a good idea either.

 

[wynn]

This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?

This topic can't go without a reference to Camus' "Myth of Sisyphus":


There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that
is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to
answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest—
whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind
has nine or twelve categories—comes afterwards. These are
games; one must first answer. And if it is true, as Nietzsche claims,
that a philosopher, to deserve our respect, must preach by example,
you can appreciate the importance of that reply, for it will precede
the definitive act. These are facts the heart can feel; yet they call
for careful study before they become clear to the intellect.

 

[Mazulu]

As a believer in the afterlife, I can think of no scenario that turns out well for a life that ends in suicide. So you're floating down the corridors of a some disembodied existence after having killed yourself, and other spirits look at you and whisper, "Yeah, there's that poor fellow who killed himself with a shotgun." Or you blow your head off, and you find yourself in front of heavenly angels glowing with love and light. Then they look at you, and you killed yourself. How does this turn out well. On the other hand, I can imagine living out my unhappy life, making mistakes and struggling. Then, when I die, the angels show up in glowing white raiment. That look upon me, and like everyone else, I struggled and suffered, but I made it, and it's love, peace and joy after that.

 

[Undefined]

Hi, suomynona, M R, everyone.

Why not?

Are we not just a ball of infinite stupidity perpetuating ourselves towards our own extinction, whilst also in the midst of trying to find answers to questions which can only serve the purpose of satisfying our thought?

Hypothetically, what if we find the answers we've always been searching for? What if we manage to grasp exactly what is happening within a black hole? What if we finally understand what consciousness is? What if we do manage to achieve time travel?

The only thing I can be sure of in this world is that it will come to an end at some point in the future. Whether or not we want to believe it, the purpose of life is simply to provide humanity with the ability to continue on without us. We do this by reproducing. After we birth a child also capable of birthing another child, we have fulfilled our purpose as a species. This cycle will continue on until there are no conditions which satisfy our ability to reproduce, e.g. the sun burns out, humanity wipes itself out, etc.

What makes me obligated to continue this trend of recreating humans in order to live long enough to experience our impending doom? Social conditioning? Morality? Ethics?

Ahem, suomynona, the question "Why not stop reproducing?" is entirely different from the question "Why not commit suicide?".

I and others have given their views/reasons pertaining to "suicide".

Now you bring up your view/reasons pertaining to "reproducing". Well, I for one cannot agree with your 'take' on that, for two reasons:

- No-one says you MUST reproduce; it is your choice and won't affect the population trend much if you don't (unless you are captive to some 'arranged marriage' society's dictates which will force you to reproduce?); and

- You seem to pre-conclude what the far far distant future of evolution of mind and body and technological capabilities/scope may bring.

Consider: It may be that exponential growth of both knowledge and technological application of same may create a universal future full of unending opportunity for self-expression and good potential realization that is unimaginable to YOU and many others NOW. So it is rashly premature to be 'deciding' that humanity's future is limited to what you imagine it will be based on current state of affairs/history. Yes?

Anyhow, that's all I wanted to point out about your somewhat premature claims about humanity's future (in mind, body and the larger universal possibilities).

Be positive, since you don't know what the universe has in store for the brave life forms that would explore its furthest and most subtle mysteries and rewards for courageous minds evolving and participating in the ongoing development of the universal potentialities!

Good luck and good thinking (and good, positive choices) to you in future, suomynona, M R, everyone!

 

[Bells]

Mod Note

Mazulu

Can you stop with the naff angel pictures and the creepy girly rainbow pictures. You are spamming them across the forum. Cut it out.