You fools

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I used to settle auto/injury claims for State Farm, road ragers were a fair percentage of my work load. This in a largely pastoral area in Indiana.

 

[parmalee]

Well, sure. But consider the hundreds of millions living in terror that they will be fined by the IRS for not paying taxes. Surely a little murder of IRS agents is - well, certainly not acceptable, but perhaps understandable?

Or the hundreds of millions who are terrified by the prospect of being killed by another driver. So perhaps we could have a little more sympathy for those road-rage killers.

Dude, c'mon.

What are tens of millions of people actually terrified of: being fined by the IRS or being made bankrupt, homeless, disabled and/or dead by shit medical insurance? Seriously? I can personally attest to the latter; don't give a shit about the former. I have personally experienced at least two (the middle two) of the former, cuz of shit insurance; I have also kinda cheated a bit on taxes (it's complicated when you've got multiple income sources and/or are paid in less regulated fashions *) and I'm not worried in the slightest.

And the road rage drivers are usually the ones causes problems that result in more road deaths in the first place, right?

---
Anyway, I think they got the wrong guy. I think it was this guy:

That poor maligned rando in a parking lot, who wasn't Ted Kaczinski, finally had enough and decided to do something about it.

* Also, I really struggle with filling out forms. It could be that I'm just lain lazy in that regard, but I really think I have some sort of cognitive problem with forms. I usually get other people to fill them out for me.

Not gonna fix the formatting problems. But just to clarify: it's not supposed to look like I'm yelling in that addendum.

 

[parmalee]

It sounds like you're fancying that road rage drivers are avenging some sort of wrong-doing in the behalf of all their fellow countrypersons. I'd say that's a pretty tortured analogy, no?

Yeah, I'm thinking my wedding scenario in Afghanistan even sounds slightly more plausible.

 

[parmalee]

inexplicable duplicate

 

[billvon]

What are tens of millions of people actually terrified of: being fined by the IRS or being made bankrupt, homeless, disabled and/or dead by shit medical insurance?

In reality? Neither.

Here on Sciforums? Both!

 

[parmalee]

In reality? Neither.

Here on Sciforums? Both!

? You lost me here--could you clarify?

There's undoubtedly data and polling and suchlike that ostensibly measures this, but I think it's fair to say that more Americans are more worried (terrified) by the potential failures with respect to their health care system and insurance, than are those worried about being audited, fined or imprisoned by the IRS. Obviously, it's apples and oranges; but I think we can still make meaningful comparisons.

 

[parmalee]

Tangentially, the road rage thing got me thinking about Monte Hellman's Two Lane Blacktop and Roger Corman's Death Race 2000. Which is more plausible?

I think the reflexive response would likely be Two Lane Blacktop; however, we have to entertain the idea that James Taylor and Dennis Wilson liked to drive really fast. I don't know about that--Wilson couldn't even reliably execute an adequate drum fill much of the time. But, it was the early 70s and supposedly everyone liked to drive really fast--or drive drunk. One or the other, or maybe both.

Edit: Then again, didn't Mike Love once claim that Dennis Wilson told him that he saw Charles Manson split someone in half with a Samurai sword or something? That could fuck you up and make you wanna drive real fast to cope with, or defer, the trauma. But is Love a reliable narrator? Was Wilson? I mean, splitting someone in half with a Samurai sword sounds a bit suspect.

 

[(Q)]

I used to settle auto/injury claims for State Farm, road ragers were a fair percentage of my work load. This in a largely pastoral area in Indiana.

So, it would be like one tractor getting stuck behind another tractor?

 

[parmalee]

So, it would be like one tractor getting stuck being another tractor?

Nah, in rural Indiana they drive those souped up tractors that go from 0 to 60 in under three seconds.

I've always found rural Indiana weirdly beautiful. I say weirdly because I'm generally more partial to high desert and mountains, but there's this period in the mid/late summer around twilight in rural Indiana that's just spectacular.

 

[billvon]

? You lost me here--could you clarify?

There's undoubtedly data and polling and suchlike that ostensibly measures this, but I think it's fair to say that more Americans are more worried (terrified) by the potential failures with respect to their health care system and insurance, than are those worried about being audited, fined or imprisoned by the IRS. Obviously, it's apples and oranges; but I think we can still make meaningful comparisons.

OK now you're getting back to reality.

Are Americans worried about health insurance? Yes. They are also worried about violent crime, illegal immigration, the economy, homelessness and the cost of housing. In fact, most of those things are more concerning to Americans than healthcare.

But being concerned is not the same as being "regularly terrified by the prospect of being made bankrupt, homeless, disabled and/or dead by an insurance company." Nor is being concerned in any way an excuse, justification or mitigating circumstance for murder - even if they really are concerned about violent crime, illegal immigration or health insurance companies.

Gallup poll from Mar 2024:

Do you personally worry about this problem a great deal?

Inflation 55%
Crime and violence 53%
Hunger and homelessness 52%
The economy 52%
Federal spending and the budget deficit 51%
The availability and affordability of healthcare 51%
Illegal immigration 48%

 

[parmalee]

Gallup poll from Mar 2024:

Do you personally worry about this problem a great deal?

Inflation 55%
Crime and violence 53%
Hunger and homelessness 52%
The economy 52%
Federal spending and the budget deficit 51%
The availability and affordability of healthcare 51%
Illegal immigration 48%

No IRS on that list, nor worry over motor vehicle accidents.

And did they poll homeless people--you know, the ones made homeless by medical bankruptcy?

Also, how do you account for the significant support Mangione is receiving, and the related absence of sympathy for Thompson? Which, interestingly, seem to cross party lines.

Edit: And the "terrified" bit was more in response to the bogus charges of "terrorism" leveled against Mangione. I'm not the one who came up with that notion that Thompson is more of a terrorist than Mangione BTW--I saw someone making the argument on a clip from Chris Cuomo's lame podcast.

And I think Cuomo needs to berate the workers in his outrage manufacturing factory a bit more, cuz his counterarguments were rather impotent.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, it would be like one tractor getting stuck being another tractor?

Well, I had one claim where the home owner rode his mower out into the road to turn around for the next pass. "Weren't much traffic on that road and they should have been watching for mowers." I didn't give him any money.

 

[parmalee]

Inflation 55%
...
Hunger and homelessness 52%
The economy 52%
...
The availability and affordability of healthcare 51%
...

And surely none of those things are impacted by outrageous health insurance premiums and co-pays, right?

And when you talk about getting back to "reality", do you mean like perceiving road rage killers as avengers for justice?

Dude, you're trolling here as much, if not more, than I am. I've got the self-awareness to acknowledge as much, do you?

I just get a kick out manufactured outrage, can't help myself there.

When you get curbstomped a few times, without having committed any crimes, and when you've been denied essential medical care multiple times, get back to me. Your perspective might change.

 

[James R]

parmalee:

So he doesn't know who Mangione is, but then, he seems to have some idea as to who Mangione is (the gun killer reference). IOW, as usual, ZPN is both lying and trolling.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. This does seem to be more a case of deliberate trolling than a matter of innocent ignorance, now that you mention it.

Now you being Australian, you can be forgiven for not knowing who Mangione is.

Australia isn't exactly a news blackout zone. We are pretty clued into major events that happen in the United States - much moreso than the other way around, I assure you. Nevertheless, the current focus of attention in the US might not reach the awareness of the average Australian until a day or two later - unless we want to go and specifically read American news sources and such. That's especially true when the news event is essentially a local matter with no international impacts.

ZPN, on the other hand, is American who is demonstrably ignorant as fuck, an idiot, a troll, and an habitual liar--who deigns to weigh in upon something of which he professes to know nothing about.

We all have our own opinions of ZPN, of course.

If I'm reading you correctly here, you seem to be admonishing us for not adhering to the rules of our high school debate team, and possibly the rules of the forum, as well (don't know, don't give two fucks).

I suggested that you might consider taking a less confrontational approach when somebody appears to be ignorant of something that strikes you as important to know.

You don't have to a give two fucks about the forum rules. I'll be sure to let you know if you cross a line, because I, fortunately, do give two fucks about them. You just keep right on doing you. Don't mind me.

Is this a correct assessment? If so, why exactly?

Why might it be a good idea not to immediately jump down somebody's throat because they don't seem to be aware of something that is important to you?

Well, hell, parmalee. I don't know. It's hard to think why you might have a more productive discussion on a discussion forum if you didn't do that, isn't it?

It's ironic that you're complaining about ZPN feigning ignorance, while here you are, demanding that I explain the bleeding obvious to you. Don't you think?

As noted, ZPN is demonstrably ignorant, idiotic, trollish and dishonest--so why exactly ought we provide this idiot with the relevant information when he's damn well capable of looking it up on his own?

You don't need to provide him with anything. You're not obliged to discuss anything with him. You can even choose to use the "Ignore" function on the forum if you'd rather not see his posts.

 

[parmalee]

parmalee:

I suggested that you might consider taking a less confrontational approach when somebody appears to be ignorant of something that strikes you as important to know.

You don't have to a give two fucks about the forum rules. I'll be sure to let you know if you cross a line, because I, fortunately, do give two fucks about them. You just keep right on doing you. Don't mind me.


Why might it be a good idea not to immediately jump down somebody's throat because they don't seem to be aware of something that is important to you?

Well, hell, parmalee. I don't know. It's hard to think why you might have a more productive discussion on a discussion forum if you didn't do that, isn't it?

I think it comes down to the fact that we've all got different thresholds and gauges for determining whether or not attemtping to reason with certain individuals is a futile endeavor. And we've all got different strategies for dealing with such. I mean, I would like to see some sort of exhaustive (and possibly peer reviewed) study on whether ignoring trolls or provoking trolls proves a more effective strategy.

Personally, I have found that poking and prodding often leads to said trolls saying what they really mean. If they're being cagey, or employing regionally coded language and dog whistles--which are by no means obvious to all, i.e., non-American readers, in this instance--one can often get them to speak more plainly and directly. At least then, you know the sort of person you're dealing with.

That said, I respect and appreciate other methods, as well; even when they haven't necessarily proven effective for me.

Also, I should not here: I've been around a long time and I've gotten like three infractions or whatever they're called in all that time. Consider the exchanges between billvon and myself within this thread: we clearly disagree and there's plenty of sarcasm and the like, sure, but I still think we are both being reasonably civil and respectful towards one another.

Edit: I don't know, maybe billvon disagrees? But, really, I certainly don't intend any disrespect--even when I accuse him of trolling. There's degrees and varieties of trolling, and not all are intended to derail a discussion or whatever. Sometimes it's simply throwing a non-destructive wrench into the works to see what happens. This subject, particularly, is something for which there is a lot of ambivalence and even seeming cognitive dissonance, at times.

 

[billvon]

And did they poll homeless people--you know, the ones made homeless by medical bankruptcy?

They polled everyone they could contact.

Also, how do you account for the significant support Mangione is receiving

He is "sticking it to The Man" - a popular cause. If he had shot an online shopping billionaire you'd have seen a similar response.

and the related absence of sympathy for Thompson?

See above. He is The Man. You will rarely get much sympathy for a formerly-unknown billionaire when he is killed.

I saw someone making the argument on a clip from Chris Cuomo's lame podcast.

Surely you would not give much credence to someone quoting, say, Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson on this topic. Why would you give this person credence, especially if you think he is "lame?"

 

[parmalee]

They polled everyone they could contact.

Rather deceptive omission there, no? Gallup polls are conducted via landline and cellphone, so they most certainly did not poll homeless people--save, perhaps, some very few with cellphones who could spare their precious minutes taking a stupid survey.

Surely you would not give much credence to someone quoting, say, Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson on this topic. Why would you give this person credence, especially if you think he is "lame?"

? I'm not giving Cuomo any credence here--a guest made the argument, and Cuomo provided the "dissenting voice" with some manufactured outrage.

 

[Sarkus]

A lotta Luigi fans out there.

I don't wanna start a whole thing. Just something that's gotta be said.

I'm reminded of something MLK Jr once said, that is worth considering here:

"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: 'I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action'; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a 'more convenient season.' Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nah, in rural Indiana they drive those souped up tractors that go from 0 to 60 in under three seconds.

I've always found rural Indiana weirdly beautiful. I say weirdly because I'm generally more partial to high desert and mountains, but there's this period in the mid/late summer around twilight in rural Indiana that's just spectacular.

South of Indianapolis, in the wrinkly part of Indiana, the fall foliage is spectacular when conditions are right. Roads wind through valley decorated with a million shades of red, orange and gold.

How ever, I tell people that Indiana has three problems. You have to go north to get to South Bend, there's no fort in Fort Wayne, and French Lick is badly, sadly, misnamed.

 

[billvon]

Rather deceptive omission there, no? Gallup polls are conducted via landline and cellphone, so they most certainly did not poll homeless people

You think homeless people don't have cellphones?

Here in San Diego we have a huge homeless population. Most of them have cellphones. When you drive down by Mission Bay you see all the crappy PV panels they use to charge them.

But this is getting rather far from the topic. Assassination of billionaires/political figures/civil rights leaders etc is not OK, or excusable, or "sorta unerstandable" no matter how angry the assassin is.