I agree that Americans would pay to see an all-Asian movie that was really good. But, in terms of box office performance, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seems to have been the exception to the rule when it comes to foreign films with subtitles.
Yellow Face in Hollywood
- Thread starter ElectricFetus
- Start date
I agree that Americans would pay to see an all-Asian movie that was really good. But, in terms of box office performance, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seems to have been the exception to the rule when it comes to foreign films with subtitles.
Yes, but I'm asking for a film without subtitles.
I do find that in poor taste but one token black guy is not to much to be upset about, white people still get a disproportionate number of acting rules to there population percentage, blacks actually get equal to their population (~10%) and all other races are far unrepresented and more so when counting only main protagonist roles (and don't get me start about women!), that is the central issue. Hollywood is going to make abominations, they will make an all black robin hood or something someday, but at present they make far more abominations like an all white staring Asian fantasy movie, I guess I would settle for when racially inappropriate role casting is fair and anyone can get casted wrongly as a character they completely do not resemble. If we can live with white jesus all these years we can have black jesus or even a women in drag jesus. Ideally I would like if Jesus was played by a Semite, Asain fantasy worlds by Asians and Norse gods by whites (even specifically Norwegian looking whites) and non-racially specific characters by anyone, but I'm willing to compromise as long as everyone gets hired fairly, and deal with affirmative action pushed to moronic levels because Hollywood is to dam stupid be able to be fair and right at the same time.
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We in the USA have 5% asains, so we should have on average 5% of are main protagonist as asains, we have 1.7%. In say china or Japan with less then 1% of there population being non-mongoloid we would expect less then 1% of their movies to have non-mongoloid protagonist. Ultimately I don't think it fair to compare the USA with ~30% non-white population to countries with >99% racially homogeneous populations. We are the worlds melting pot we should fucking act like it instead of just showing the white cream on top and chocolate fudge in quota amounts, where is the fucking caramel and fruits and dead Jew cockroach mashed up in the middle?
And what does the director being Indian have to do with a white washed caste and propagating arab/indian stereotypes. What he can't be racist, or make racially insensitive judgments simply because of his race, only white people are prejudice and discriminatory? Well if he can do those things and not be called out on them then I can rip on the Jews and not be called out either.
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I know, I was just saying that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon's success was somewhat of an anomaly for a movie with subtitles.
It's not just a token black character, though. There's quite a pattern of this happening in recent years. I'd still say the worst of the bunch is Walking Tall remake. Not a bad movie overall, but changing the race of the main character in a movie based on real events is pretty low.
I said before that I don't agree with changing the race of characters in remakes or when books/graphic novels/TV shows are made into movies (or vice versa). My point was that it happens pretty frequently and there isn't some massive public protest about it, so I don't see why that would change with this movie.
Well, if that's the case, should we demand that casting in movies and TV shows accurately represent crime statistics? Should we also insist that paraplegic characters be played by paraplegic actors?
Blockbuster by which definition?
At just over $128m, Crouching Tiger ranks at #279 on IMDB's list of all-time U.S. box office gross. By comparison, Borat checks in at #275 ($128.5m), the ill-fated Robots at #277 ($128.2m) Get Smart at #268 ($130.3m).
Ang Lee's Hulk lists at #261 ($132.1m), and was widely regarded as a failure. Five years later, Louis Leterrier directed The Incredible Hulk, which holds #251 at present, having achieved $134.5m. Jackie Chan and Chris Turner score the #229 spot with Rush Hour 3 ($140m), and Shutter Island, staring Leo DiCaprio and released earlier this year, presently stands just behind Crouching Tiger at #280, with $127.97m. G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra brought in $150.1m at the box office, to place 198th, and the 2009 Fast & Furious clocks in at #184, with $155.2m. The abysmal 2002 Scooby Doo film made the list at #191, with just under $153.3m. The Jackie Chan/Jaden Smith remake of The Karate Kid has climbed to #195, with $151.5m.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was released in 2000; the top earner that year appears to be Tom Hanks in Cast Away, which ranks #70 all-time at $232.6m. Gladiator, a year 2000 blockbuster, is at #116, with nearly $187.7m. Mel Gibson, starring in Nancy Meyers' hideous What Women Want raked in $182.8m, to place at #125. Meet the Parents, a half-witted comedy directed by Jay Roach, rode its star power for $166.2m, ranking at #160.
Hell, even 2001's American Pie 2 did better at #208, with a box office take of $145.1m.
Still, for a martial arts film, Crouching Tiger did not do so badly. Jet Li and Jason Statham, in the visually exciting War, only made $22.46m in American cinemas. Li opened his epic Hero in the U.S. in August, 2004, at #1, with all of $18m in receipts. At a $53m take overall in the U.S., Hero is apparently the third highest grossing foreign film in American history. I have a hard time calling Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon a blockbuster in general terms. It is certainly a blockbuster in terms of martial arts films in the United States. However, it is also the exception. And without the mystical Jedi-like powers, would it really have sold so well to Americans? Or would it have been another Hero?
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Notes:
Internet Movie Database. "All-Time USA Box Office". July 4, 2010. IMDB.com. July 4, 2010. http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross
—————. "Hero (2002)". (n.d.) IMDB.com. July 4, 2010. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299977/
Wikipedia. "War (film)". June 23, 2010. Wikipedia.com. July 4, 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_(film)
At just over $128m, Crouching Tiger ranks at #279 on IMDB's list of all-time U.S. box office gross. By comparison, Borat checks in at #275 ($128.5m), the ill-fated Robots at #277 ($128.2m) Get Smart at #268 ($130.3m).
Ang Lee's Hulk lists at #261 ($132.1m), and was widely regarded as a failure. Five years later, Louis Leterrier directed The Incredible Hulk, which holds #251 at present, having achieved $134.5m. Jackie Chan and Chris Turner score the #229 spot with Rush Hour 3 ($140m), and Shutter Island, staring Leo DiCaprio and released earlier this year, presently stands just behind Crouching Tiger at #280, with $127.97m. G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra brought in $150.1m at the box office, to place 198th, and the 2009 Fast & Furious clocks in at #184, with $155.2m. The abysmal 2002 Scooby Doo film made the list at #191, with just under $153.3m. The Jackie Chan/Jaden Smith remake of The Karate Kid has climbed to #195, with $151.5m.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was released in 2000; the top earner that year appears to be Tom Hanks in Cast Away, which ranks #70 all-time at $232.6m. Gladiator, a year 2000 blockbuster, is at #116, with nearly $187.7m. Mel Gibson, starring in Nancy Meyers' hideous What Women Want raked in $182.8m, to place at #125. Meet the Parents, a half-witted comedy directed by Jay Roach, rode its star power for $166.2m, ranking at #160.
Hell, even 2001's American Pie 2 did better at #208, with a box office take of $145.1m.
Still, for a martial arts film, Crouching Tiger did not do so badly. Jet Li and Jason Statham, in the visually exciting War, only made $22.46m in American cinemas. Li opened his epic Hero in the U.S. in August, 2004, at #1, with all of $18m in receipts. At a $53m take overall in the U.S., Hero is apparently the third highest grossing foreign film in American history. I have a hard time calling Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon a blockbuster in general terms. It is certainly a blockbuster in terms of martial arts films in the United States. However, it is also the exception. And without the mystical Jedi-like powers, would it really have sold so well to Americans? Or would it have been another Hero?
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Notes:
Internet Movie Database. "All-Time USA Box Office". July 4, 2010. IMDB.com. July 4, 2010. http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross
—————. "Hero (2002)". (n.d.) IMDB.com. July 4, 2010. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299977/
Wikipedia. "War (film)". June 23, 2010. Wikipedia.com. July 4, 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_(film)
Its not a problem as of yet as white still get disproportionally more roles then there population.
Why crime statistics, what that have to do with equal hiring practices? And I don't think paraplegics have anything to do with racism, they is about selecting people based on basic physical abilities, this is about selecting people based off far more abstract things.
Tiassa,
Crouching Tiger had a budget of 17 M, its made ~10 times its budget, that fucking successful. And as for mystical powers that last airbender to a T.
You either think it's okay to change the races of characters or you don't. If it's a "problem" in one case, it's a "problem" in all cases.
You brought population statistics into the discussion by saying that Asians were underrepresented. If we're going to use statistics to rate the fairness and accuracy of casting, it should be applied to all instances possible. If it's unfair for Asians to be underrepresented in regular casting, wouldn't it also be unfair for a racial/ethnic group to be over-represented as criminals?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Did you ever see A Majority of One, in which Alec Guinness played a Japanese character? As far as I could tell they didn't even try to make him look the part. With that nose it would have been impossible.
How about remaking Scarface and setting it in the Hispanic community, but casting Al Pacino as the lead?
Usually only a Brit can pull off an understatement of that magnitude.
Griffith was the guy who made Birth of a Nation, originally titled The Clansman. It was the highest-grossing silent film ever made.
It wrong to change the races in all cases on aesthetic grounds, It only wrong to changes the races in some cases on moral grounds, as long as whites are being over-represented then its fair to reduce the number of roles available for them, but of course changing existing stories to fit in more minorities just does not make for accurate story telling. Can't just make a black superman unless you going to make a whole new hero and new mythos.
Depends, over-represented per population or per prison population? If your arguing that casting represent thespian populations proportionately that not true. Asian make up 3.8% of all movie roles, but only 1.7% of main protagonist movie roles, they are systematically placed as background, token and villain characters.
ok, so we went and saw the movie yesterday.. and I have to say.. I was SADDEN!! It was horrid!! I don't think that was the right way for him to make it... I don't have a problem with another race playing another race.. think about it... we have white boys trying to be black!! LOL!
anyways
the movie didn't hold 100% true to the cartoon.. They didn't depict the sillyness of the cartoon! I wanted to laugh, and enjoy the fun times of the cartoon! instead he screws it all up by focusing on all the plots! witch, may I say, where not even in ORDER!! Zuko(banned prince) didn't save ang from the rest of the fire nation till the fire chapter!!!! Or was it the air chapter? ANYWAYS! and the uncle! OMG! When does a fat guy with an awesome mustache, become a skinny guy? And how they pronounce Ang's name.. Aug, aung.. whatever! WRONG!!! And Sukos(the brother?) was all smart and whatnot when in the cartoon, he was a total idiot! AND HE WAS AWESOME!! They could have also casted better people for the parts... I want someone to remake the movie... I don't know if I will even want to see the others if the same director is making them..... and the 3D effects SUCKED ASS!!!!
anyways
the movie didn't hold 100% true to the cartoon.. They didn't depict the sillyness of the cartoon! I wanted to laugh, and enjoy the fun times of the cartoon! instead he screws it all up by focusing on all the plots! witch, may I say, where not even in ORDER!! Zuko(banned prince) didn't save ang from the rest of the fire nation till the fire chapter!!!! Or was it the air chapter? ANYWAYS! and the uncle! OMG! When does a fat guy with an awesome mustache, become a skinny guy? And how they pronounce Ang's name.. Aug, aung.. whatever! WRONG!!! And Sukos(the brother?) was all smart and whatnot when in the cartoon, he was a total idiot! AND HE WAS AWESOME!! They could have also casted better people for the parts... I want someone to remake the movie... I don't know if I will even want to see the others if the same director is making them..... and the 3D effects SUCKED ASS!!!!
I was a moderate fan of the animated series avatar the last airbender, I felt the show was too PG but was a massive improvement in American "made" animation (I say made in quotes because nearly all animation, be it Japanese anime to the Simpsons is now made in korea, yeah crazy world we live in). M. Night Shymalon (the "what a twists!" last 3-2 movies were box office failures director) is making a live action movie trilogy of this animated series. The series consisted of a fantasy world based around East Asian culture, with everything from architecture, customs, styling, even the fucking writing was traditional Chinese. Now here is the kickers, they had it the live action staring an all Caucasian cast, imagine for a moment the Lord of the Rings had stared an all East Asian cast (I'm sure japanese people could have fit the hobbit role, oooh yeah I went there!) well after hearing complaints of racism they added insult to injury by having all the side-line characters and villains of a different race, they replaced the central villains with Indian people (who could be mistaken for arabs and assumed to be muslims because all american crackers know Muslims and arabs are evil)
Apparently Hollywood has a long and active to this day history of putting white people in "yellow face" even going so far has to have their eye squinted with tape, in movies made just a few years ago!
Check it out:
http://derekkirkkim.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-day-in-politics-same-old-racist.html
http://racebending.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowface
We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think that there's a moral obligation to have characters of certain races in movies and TV shows unless they're portraying a real event (like Walking Tall or something about Martin Luther King Jr., the Founding Fathers, etc.).
Changing the race/ethnicity/gender of fictional characters is silly and sometimes politically correct, in my opinion, but we don't have a right to see characters with certain physical features in our entertainment mediums.
Over-represented with regard to crime statistics.
Never said we have a right to that, only that that would be of poor taste. We do have a right to fair hiring practices though and I could live with Hollywood making abominations as long as they do so fairly, and in total Hollywood has not been hiring fairly, let alone tactfully.
Sooo higher then crime statistics?
The exception, not the rule
More like 7.5x, but that's neither here nor there. Crouching Tiger is a statistical anomaly. That's the part you're overlooking. Yes, I was happy to see it do well, too, but it's the deviation, not the rule. As films like Hero and War remind, Asians aren't a big box office draw.
Besides, if there was an expected high return for Asian faces in the cinema, Hollywood would already be all over it. Yes, there is racism in Hollywood, but it's not so blatant that the execs would ignore a potential gold mine. The reality is that the dearth of Asian faces in Hollywood blockbusters in the twenty-first century is largely a matter of market demand.
I find it a curious phenomenon, though. Americans seem to appreciate certain story elements out of Asia, but they prefer the characters to look more Asian. According to one list I found, while Crouching Tiger is the highest-grossing foreign-language film in American history (barring The Passion of the Christ, which is considered a domestically-made foreign-language film, and apparently is thus counted in another category), it is also the only Asian entry on the top ten.
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Notes:
Nolan, Chris. "Top Grossing Foreign Language Films in the US". List of Bests. March 24, 2006. ListOfBests.com. July 5, 2010. http://www.listsofbests.com/list/1887-top-grossing-foreign-language-films-in-the-us
Electric Fetus said:
More like 7.5x, but that's neither here nor there. Crouching Tiger is a statistical anomaly. That's the part you're overlooking. Yes, I was happy to see it do well, too, but it's the deviation, not the rule. As films like Hero and War remind, Asians aren't a big box office draw.
Besides, if there was an expected high return for Asian faces in the cinema, Hollywood would already be all over it. Yes, there is racism in Hollywood, but it's not so blatant that the execs would ignore a potential gold mine. The reality is that the dearth of Asian faces in Hollywood blockbusters in the twenty-first century is largely a matter of market demand.
I find it a curious phenomenon, though. Americans seem to appreciate certain story elements out of Asia, but they prefer the characters to look more Asian. According to one list I found, while Crouching Tiger is the highest-grossing foreign-language film in American history (barring The Passion of the Christ, which is considered a domestically-made foreign-language film, and apparently is thus counted in another category), it is also the only Asian entry on the top ten.
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Notes:
Nolan, Chris. "Top Grossing Foreign Language Films in the US". List of Bests. March 24, 2006. ListOfBests.com. July 5, 2010. http://www.listsofbests.com/list/1887-top-grossing-foreign-language-films-in-the-us
By yellow Face I thought you meant this:
Benny Hill
Christopher Lee (Fu Manchoo)
Peter Sellars (Played Charlie Chan and Fu Manchoo)
Question is are these portrayals as offensive to Asians as black face is to people of African origin?