WWII - Effects on Asia of the war in Europe

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DaveinChina

Registered Member
Imagine that the war in Europe had gone differently. Germany had successfully invaded Britain and gone on to victory in the Soviet Union. What effects would this have had on the Asian conflict. Specifically what effects would China have suffered. I think the fate of China was closely tied to both the Japanese and American/British fates. What possible outcomes can you see happening to China and the Japanese if Germany controlled the whole of Europe/Soviet Union.
I would be grateful for responses to this as I teach History at a university in China (despite stopping the study of it at school aged 16!). And I would like to help my students understand the global nature of WWII.
 
China certainly would have been next, expecially if Nazi Germany had control over the Soviet Union, although that kind of an outcome is a ridiculous notion. The Soviets would have thrown every able Russian body at the Nazi's before they would be conquered.
 
although that kind of an outcome is a ridiculous notion
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So you think there never was a chance the SOviet Union would be defeated? Many of the things I have read suggest that with better tactics and a few lucky breaks the outcome on the Eastern Front would have gone Germany's way.
Even if there was never a chance of conquering the Soviet Union I guess an uneasy stalemate could have occured. If this was the case, with Britain conquered, could you venture a opinion on what the effects on Asia might have been.
I know this is fairly hypothetical but I really want to get across to my students the global nature of WWII!
 
better tactics?
germany, at the time, was considered a world class military thought by many to be unbeatable

britain was another matter
if it wasn't for the americans help she surely would have fell
 
Countries change as they get bigger. They also behave differently during peacetime and war. Something like this is hard to speculate on. I've been told that the reason Germany was so obsessive about killing off the Jews during WWII is that they realized that during the peace that would prevail when the war was over, even they would not be able to get away with it any longer.

I wonder how the Nazis would have treated the Indians. After all, they are by definition the original "Aryans."
 
Even if Briton and the USSR had fallen to the Nazis Japan would have still attacked US interests in Manilla and at Pearl Harbor. With England out of the war Australian and Canadian forces would still have joined with the US to stop the Japanese.
 
And, with full German assistance, Dai-Nihon Teikoku would've steamrolled and steakgrilled Australia and Canada, and possibly the US, with heavy reinforcements from colonial reserves.
IF they did win a total victory, eventually, Japan and Germany would've gone to war, and Japan would win. No matter the cost, Japan would kill Nazi Germany in a war, considering their mentality.
 
regarding all of this
hitler made 4 big mistakes

first is that he found himself in a 2 front war, namely with russia in the east and britain in the west

second, he underestimated the power of the naval arm of his military machine and therefor never developed it

third is he didn't realize the advantages of radar, one of the reasons that britain was able to hold him off

and fourth he underestimated americas ability to produce, the second reason britain didn't fall and ultimatly led to the nazis defeat
 
I doubt that even with full Nazi partipation Australia would have been steamrolled.
Japan never really had total control of China even though the USSR did not enter the war with Japan until August of 45. US support for China had to come in over "the hump".
 
leopold99 said:
regarding all of this
hitler made 4 big mistakes

first is that he found himself in a 2 front war, namely with russia in the east and britain in the west

second, he underestimated the power of the naval arm of his military machine and therefor never developed it

third is he didn't realize the advantages of radar, one of the reasons that britain was able to hold him off

and fourth he underestimated americas ability to produce, the second reason britain didn't fall and ultimatly led to the nazis defeat
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Five actually. He didn't seize upon jet technology for mass-use until late in the war, '44 and '45. If they had perfected the Me-262 earlier, say '42 or '43, the war probably would have been thiers.
 
Hapsburg said:
Five actually. He didn't seize upon jet technology for mass-use until late in the war, '44 and '45. If they had perfected the Me-262 earlier, say '42 or '43, the war probably would have been thiers.
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oh hit !
good call hapsburg
 
Hitler made a huge mistake during the Battle of Britain when he switched from targeting the RAF to bombing civilian centers. While it was hard on British civilians, the RAF got a badly needed break and were able to regroup. Hitler never really had a chance of invasion after that.

If Hitler had stayed after the RAF, an invasion of England would still have been difficult. Hitler was short on naval power, and the Royal Navy would have sacrificed itself going after the German transports. The Germans might have succeeded, but the cost would have been enormous.

Hitler NEVER came close to defeating Russia. His first two summer campaigns were rather successful, but there was still a LOT of Russia he didn't touch. And the first two Russian winter campaign really did a number on the Germans. After '42, the Germans did very little except retreat.

Oh...and Germany trying to fight in the Far East...They would have had one BIG problem...supply. At that time, the only way to get supplies there would have been the Trans Siberia Railroad...essentially several tousands of miles of one line, very easily disrupted by partisans.

As for Hitler's biggest mistake of the war, my vote is that he failed to fully mobilize the German economy for war until late '43.
 
Poincare's Stepchild said:
If Hitler had stayed after the RAF, an invasion of England would still have been difficult. Hitler was short on naval power, and the Royal Navy would have sacrificed itself going after the German transports. The Germans might have succeeded, but the cost would have been enormous.
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i doubt it
hitler bombed the airfields, and they were hit
but the spitefires were safe
britain took the precaution of hiding it's spitefires in the countryside
also she moved her machine shops underground

i doubt if the royal navy would have sacrificed itself
britain knew full well the folly of grouping it's ships in the channel
besides, most of the british fleet was strung out all over the globe protecting britains vital supply lines

i don't know if hitler failed to mobilize the economy or if he was hoping that the conqured countries would produce for him
 
leopold99 said:
i doubt it
hitler bombed the airfields, and they were hit
but the spitefires were safe
britain took the precaution of hiding it's spitefires in the countryside
also she moved her machine shops underground

i doubt if the royal navy would have sacrificed itself
britain knew full well the folly of grouping it's ships in the channel
besides, most of the british fleet was strung out all over the globe protecting britains vital supply lines

i don't know if hitler failed to mobilize the economy or if he was hoping that the conqured countries would produce for him
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I am not sure what you are doubting...

At the time Hitler switched the Luftwaffe's priorities, the RAF was in bad shape, even with everything they were doing to minimize the damage. But even had the RAF been nullified, the Germans would have faced an uphill struggle to invade and conquer England.

Agreed that the Royal Navy knew the dangers of operating in the Channel. However, facing a full scale German invasion, you can bet your sweet boopie they would have done everything possible, up to suicide runs, to stop the German invasion.

As to Hitler and the economy, it was mostly Hitler's overconfidence that the war would be over soon. He didn't put Germany on a full war footing until after things started going very badly in Russia. By that time, it was too late. Faced with the full production of Russia and England, and most of the production of America, he was doomed.
 
Poincare's Stepchild said:
I am not sure what you are doubting...

At the time Hitler switched the Luftwaffe's priorities, the RAF was in bad shape,
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are you sure about this?
hitler switched tactics because the raf was still in the air
hitler hit the fields but he could not knock the raf out of the air

there were a number of things at work here
first was radar
the british were alerted to an airstrike as soon as the luftwaffe left the normandy coast
second was the agility of the spitefire itself
third was the men that were lost to germany were gone for good
not so with britain, 50% or more of her pilots that were shot down returned to active duty

the only reason hitler resorted to night raids was to avoid those deadly spitefires

the raf was going up against odds 7, 9, 10 to 1 and still they kept flying
i believe the best the raf did was to lose 60 pilots to the germans 500
those were enormous losses for the germans and the major reason hitler switched to night raids
 
leopold99 said:
are you sure about this?
hitler switched tactics because the raf was still in the air
hitler hit the fields but he could not knock the raf out of the air
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The reason that Hitler switched tactics was not due to the Spitfire. A German bomber accidentally let it bombs drop on London. In retaliation, the British bombed Berlin at night. This act caused Hitler to change to civilian target in England, to retaliate for the retaliation.

While the Spitfire was slightly more maneuverable than the Bf 109, the 109 could out climb and out dive it. All-in-all, it was a close match.

And if you look at the number of kills, it was actually the Hurricane that shot down the most planes for Britain during the battle. Spitfires were available in much fewer numbers than the older Hurricane.

You are right about the pilot situation, except that Germany had many more trained pilots at the start of the Battle of Britain.
 
Poincare's Stepchild said:
The reason that Hitler switched tactics was not due to the Spitfire. A German bomber accidentally let it bombs drop on London. In retaliation, the British bombed Berlin at night. This act caused Hitler to change to civilian target in England, to retaliate for the retaliation.
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i am not sure this is entirely accurate i'll have to check on it

but you are correct that hitler retaliated for britains night raid
and he planned it for the lowest ebb tide of the thames
 
leopold99 said:
i am not sure this is entirely accurate i'll have to check on it

but you are correct that hitler retaliated for britains night raid
and he planned it for the lowest ebb tide of the thames
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Check out the movie "The Battle of Britain". It is pretty accurate historically, and has some great air combat scenes...for pre-CGA that is.
 
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