Wifi router and headaches

[Syzygys]

After a few years of mystery it looks like I finally solved what causes my poke-in-the-eye headaches. It is most likely the wifi router!!!

I am not 100% sure but this theory is the best candidate, and if you think humans can not be effected by wifi, think otherwise:

http://carny.hubpages.com/hub/wifi-headaches

For years I have had 2-3 head aches a month but mostly between Sept and May. Well this is also the time when I spend more time in the room upstairs where the router is. When I sleep in that bed my head is only 5-6 feet away from the router. About a week ago I relocated the router to downstairs and although it might be early to tell, but so far so good, not to mention it improved the reception in the house all over. Since I wired 3 rooms in the house, I might have to put another router back, but I think I am going to tinfoil it and just use it as a normal router, not as a wifi device.

It is also possible that the set up also contributed to the pain, because there is a large TV opposite the router that might reflected back the signals thus giving me a double dose. The router is now next to a TV and I only get close to it when we watch TV, but the distance is about 8-9 feet and it is much less time than sleeping next to it...

Well, as I said, it might be too early to tell, but I will use this thread and update monthly or so on the status of my headaches. Share your similar experience here.

Oh yes, another interesting thing. I used to sit at a desk and the router was just down at my feet and for years I was getting groin aches too. I haven't used that desk for 2 or so years and my groin ache is also gone. Could it be that I am just too sensitive to electric energy???

 

[danshawen]

Only because Verizon is bugging me lately to upgrade to a WAP-2 encryption ready router to replace my old WEP one, which for all intents and purposes, is like no wi-fi encryption at all.

Rewind the WayBack machine to the 1990s, when Phil Zimmerman had to leave the country in order to offer PGP, a more robust encryption with a longer codeword. In their consummate wisdom, congress considered exporting strong computer encryption to be tantamount to selling munitions. Yeah, right, and so today, because they held the encryption arms race back, the rest of the world has access to strong encryption and we don't seem to have any.

If I upgrade this router, then my old computers can no longer access my new wireless printers, and so they must be summarily dumped, whether the software that runs on them is useful or not. At this point, the only way I seem to have around the problem is to start using iPads for all the things my computer used to do. Oh yes, those are quite secure, independent of what the rest of my low security network is broadcasting on wi-fi. Maybe someone sells a wi-fi jammer or something that will limit its range, as if I wanted that.

Oh yeah, my router give me headaches, and it doesn't matter which room it's in.

 

[billvon]

After a few years of mystery it looks like I finally solved what causes my poke-in-the-eye headaches. It is most likely the wifi router!!!

I am not 100% sure but this theory is the best candidate, and if you think humans can not be effected by wifi, think otherwise:

They can certainly be affected by routers. The lights can keep you up, and if you use your laptop in bed that can keep you up as well. If the power supply buzzes that can give you a headache. But the wi-fi signal itself does nothing to you.

It is also possible that the set up also contributed to the pain, because there is a large TV opposite the router that might reflected back the signals thus giving me a double dose.

Or the fact that you are sleeping near a TV is leading to less sleep and headaches.

Oh yes, another interesting thing. I used to sit at a desk and the router was just down at my feet and for years I was getting groin aches too. I haven't used that desk for 2 or so years and my groin ache is also gone. Could it be that I am just too sensitive to electric energy???

No.

 

[Kittamaru]

Only because Verizon is bugging me lately to upgrade to a WAP-2 encryption ready router to replace my old WEP one, which for all intents and purposes, is like no wi-fi encryption at all.

Rewind the WayBack machine to the 1990s, when Phil Zimmerman had to leave the country in order to offer PGP, a more robust encryption with a longer codeword. In their consummate wisdom, congress considered exporting strong computer encryption to be tantamount to selling munitions. Yeah, right, and so today, because they held the encryption arms race back, the rest of the world has access to strong encryption and we don't seem to have any.

If I upgrade this router, then my old computers can no longer access my new wireless printers, and so they must be summarily dumped, whether the software that runs on them is useful or not. At this point, the only way I seem to have around the problem is to start using iPads for all the things my computer used to do. Oh yes, those are quite secure, independent of what the rest of my low security network is broadcasting on wi-fi. Maybe someone sells a wi-fi jammer or something that will limit its range, as if I wanted that.

Oh yeah, my router give me headaches, and it doesn't matter which room it's in.

I presume you mean WPA-2

There is an alternative - you can get a new router and do a direct-line from your new one to the old one. Have the old one broadcast the WEP signal, and the new one on WPA2, just using different access-point names.

Bingo, wifi for new and legacy devices

 

[Syzygys]

But the wi-fi signal itself does nothing to you.

I tend to think otherwise. Read the link given in my first post people having similar experiences.

Now the update. I have been away from my house for the last 3 weeks. I had a few small headaches, but mostly weather related and nothing like the usual very strong poke in the eye type. So it has been almost 2 months into headache season, and no sign of the pain.

Yesterday I set up the new wifi system. Upstairs I have a router where the internet modem is, but the wifi turned off, so it is just for wired connections. I moved the other router downstairs, so the house has a better, more even range spread. Now I am going to be close to that router only when watching TV a few hours a day, but still a good 8 feet away.

So the test and the updates continue...

 

[Syzygys]

Here is a post from the net, this person also thinks that a combination of the set ups caused his headaches. He had the TV in front of him and the router behind his head, just like in my case:


"Geoff 2 weeks ago

A short while ago I would have said it was a load of rubbish having had a Wifi router pretty close to me for most of the day since 2007 and not really recognizing any ill effects.

A short while ago I purchased a Roku Wifi box (Now TV box in the UK) and was watching a lot of video boxed sets, streamed from my router which was just 1 meter away from the back of my head transmitting through me to my TV 3 meters in front of me. One afternoon whilst watching, I had what I have now learnt was an 'Aura' a visual disturbance with flashing and blind spots, followed by a severe migraine (something I have never had in my life before) this happened twice more the same day, again the next day whilst using my tablet (wifi) and a again the following day whilst using my laptop (wifi) followed the worst headache I've ever had which wiped me out for a day.

I thought long and hard about what might be causing it from food to drink, the only think I could conclude was Wi-Fi due to the amount of video streaming I was watching. I switched off my wi-fi, disabled it on my lap top and set up a wired connection, and also moved my router away from my head.

So far since doing so (touch wood) I've not suffered any re-occurrence, two weeks on.

I believe its an accumulative thing and I had reached my 'limit' as I said before this experience I would have said it was a load of tosh, I'm not so sure now..."

http://carny.hubpages.com/hub/wifi-headaches

It is interesting to read the comments at the above link. The nays are only 20 and the yes, it can happen (and happened to me) are 140 or so. The nays are mostly saying, it doesn't happen to me thus it can't happen to anyone...

Gee, I can walk through a large field of flowers in any season without a sneeze, thus allergies must not exist!

 

[Syzygys]

Oh a note about the double blind tests:

If you don't have a sensitive person in either group, the whole test is worthless and won't show you anything. So first they need to search for people complaining about wifi before they do such tests... And they shouldn't tell the test subjects when the wifi is turned on.

Also note the special set ups, when something like a TV can modify and double the signal...

 

[origin]

If your headaches went away after changing routers that is great. That is not causality though. There is no evidence that the signal from a router can have any effect on you.

 

[fogpipe]

Only because Verizon is bugging me lately to upgrade to a WAP-2 encryption ready router to replace my old WEP one, which for all intents and purposes, is like no wi-fi encryption at all.

Rewind the WayBack machine to the 1990s, when Phil Zimmerman had to leave the country in order to offer PGP, a more robust encryption with a longer codeword. In their consummate wisdom, congress considered exporting strong computer encryption to be tantamount to selling munitions. Yeah, right, and so today, because they held the encryption arms race back, the rest of the world has access to strong encryption and we don't seem to have any.

If I upgrade this router, then my old computers can no longer access my new wireless printers, and so they must be summarily dumped, whether the software that runs on them is useful or not. At this point, the only way I seem to have around the problem is to start using iPads for all the things my computer used to do. Oh yes, those are quite secure, independent of what the rest of my low security network is broadcasting on wi-fi. Maybe someone sells a wi-fi jammer or something that will limit its range, as if I wanted that.

Oh yeah, my router give me headaches, and it doesn't matter which room it's in.

Dont dump them, put linux on them. I dont know their age, but i doubt they are so old they wont run at least some linux flavor. Im pretty sure you will be able to use wap-2 with linux on them.

 

[Syzygys]

If your headaches went away after changing routers that is great. That is not causality though.

It will be if no headaches after a few months. Hell, I am even willing to turn the wifi back on until the first headache...

 

[billvon]

It will be if no headaches after a few months. Hell, I am even willing to turn the wifi back on until the first headache...

Or the power supply doesn't buzz. Or you cleaned up a bit after you replaced the router and there's less dust. Or you have associated the router with headaches, and that becomes a self-fulfilling prediction.

Gee, I can walk through a large field of flowers in any season without a sneeze, thus allergies must not exist!

Well, no, we can demonstrate why allergies exist, although not everyone has them.

To be clear, you might be having a bad reaction to a router. People have bad reactions to the color of their drapes, their husband's weight, the tone of their bosses voice, dirt on their car, their kid's behavior, the threat of Ebola, confined places, public speaking, etc etc. That does NOT mean that (for example) the wavelength of light that is reflected off blue drapes has a physical effect that makes them sick. It does mean that the drapes make them sick. (Or enclosed places, or their bosses voice.)

The mistake many people make is over-analyzing it. "Knowing that router is there makes me sick, so it must be the radio waves. Yeah, that's it - that's the only thing that makes sense. The radio waves are affecting me." But cut the transmitter power by a factor of 10 and change absolutely nothing else (and most importantly do not tell them) and odds are they'd still get sick. Or disable it completely and put another router somewhere hidden and again odds are they'd have the same symptoms.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Or the power supply doesn't buzz. Or you cleaned up a bit after you replaced the router and there's less dust. Or you have associated the router with headaches, and that becomes a self-fulfilling prediction.


Well, no, we can demonstrate why allergies exist, although not everyone has them.

To be clear, you might be having a bad reaction to a router. People have bad reactions to the color of their drapes, their husband's weight, the tone of their bosses voice, dirt on their car, their kid's behavior, the threat of Ebola, confined places, public speaking, etc etc. That does NOT mean that (for example) the wavelength of light that is reflected off blue drapes has a physical effect that makes them sick. It does mean that the drapes make them sick. (Or enclosed places, or their bosses voice.)

The mistake many people make is over-analyzing it. "Knowing that router is there makes me sick, so it must be the radio waves. Yeah, that's it - that's the only thing that makes sense. The radio waves are affecting me." But cut the transmitter power by a factor of 10 and change absolutely nothing else (and most importantly do not tell them) and odds are they'd still get sick. Or disable it completely and put another router somewhere hidden and again odds are they'd have the same symptoms.

I used to think I was allergic to 2.4GHz but then I noticed I really get migraines at 5 GHz. Of course all of the relatively high power cell towers and repeaters don't bother me at all. And it's not CDMA, not even GSM nor GMSK that affects me, but rather spread spectrum QPSK and only when it's sending MAC layer headers. Header/headache, you know. It's targeted to the head. They even have that <head> tag in there, just as a warning, but obviously everyone is ignoring all the warnings. You, bill, of all people! You more than anyone should be joining this crusade. Just tell us what those warnings say that are written all over your secret communications illuminati codebooks that you folks used to perpetuate all of this RF excitement. Yeah, come out of the closet, bill. You just think we're not on to your little scheme? I bet it says "WARNING: causes migraines. Seek refuge in copper lined enclosures to avoid exposure. In the event of a headache emergency, resort to optical and/or twisted copper pair alternatives, but beware of any modulation other than narrowband FSK." Just wait until the Enquirer gets wind of this. You guys' gooses are going to be cooked. And, brother, do I mean nuked.

We really need another thread dedicated to allergic reactions to intermodulation distortion. That's got to be a real kicker. But don't let me detract from the gravity of this question of baseband/IF resonance triggered cephalomyalgia. Just consider this a plaintive cry, and fair warning: the cabal will soon be outed. And when the press gets ahold of the secret files I am certain we will find out that the CIA/NSA are behind this. What else were they supposed to do with all of that "Manchurian Candidate" technology that they've been working on since Joe McCarthy was able to go underground under that pretense "Sir, have you no decency?" . . . to which I would reply "Indeed I can be a monster when I'm plagued by modulation indexed cephalgias, especially when carried at about an octave above the natural resonance of water dipoles.".

The truth will come out, and when it does, it's all going to be in plain text, probably straight amplitude shift keyed. And watch the pharmaceutical companies scramble to cut production on their analgesic production lines. I'm telling you, this will bring Armageddon.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but folks, just remember: you read it first right here at Sci.

 

[Syzygys]

Or the power supply doesn't buzz. Or you cleaned up a bit after you replaced the router and there's less dust. Or you have associated the router with headaches, and that becomes a self-fulfilling prediction.

But seriously.... Everything else is there, the lights, the buzz, except there is no wifi. Additionally, others complain about the same, and it can be easily tested (and has been) and yes, they noticed when the wifi was on or off. Read the link and the 120 or so positive feedbacks...

Super additionally, there are actually radio free zones in the country because certain people are so sensitive that they can't bear any kind of radio waves and such. So add all these together and tell me I am hallucinating

And as a mother, I am telling you, I am right.


Weekend reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity

 

[billvon]

But seriously.... Everything else is there, the lights, the buzz, except there is no wifi.

Right. So either it's the 2.4GHz radio waves or your knowledge that there is no wifi that makes the difference. From testing, a person's knowledge of the environment they are in has a much higher likelihood of causing such problems.

Super additionally, there are actually radio free zones in the country because certain people are so sensitive that they can't bear any kind of radio waves and such.

I believe it. And I also believe that if you showed these people the levels of solar, stellar and satellite radiation they were being exposed to being out in the open, a lot of them would develop the same symptoms once they realized that there was still EM radiation all around them. That doesn't mean they are "faking" it - such symptoms are real. But it does mean that the cause is not "electromagnetic hypersensitivity."

From the link you posted:
=========
The majority of provocation trials to date have found that self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between exposure to real and fake electromagnetic fields, and it is not recognized as a medical condition by the medical or scientific communities. Since a systematic review in 2005 showing no convincing scientific evidence for it being caused by electromagnetic fields, several double-blind experiments have been published, each of which has suggested that people who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to detect the presence of electromagnetic fields and are as likely to report ill health following a sham exposure, as they are following exposure to genuine electromagnetic fields, suggesting the cause to be the nocebo effect.
==========

And as a mother, I am telling you, I am right.

Well as a father, I am telling you that . . . wait just a sec, I have to change another diaper.

 

[Syzygys]

OK, so how do you explain that for years, I had these extreme headaches and I didn't associate them with wifi? I knew we had wifi, but I only started the association about 2 months ago, when for other reason I moved the wifi... So clearly, in my case it isn't psychosomatic or whatever you call it, but real....

Right now I am enjoying my headacheless time too much, but if I still don't have head aches by Christmas, I will turn the wifi on just for a test. Well, I guess I am still exposed to wifi in the living room, but my guess is that the set up (walls, TV) and the distance (longer) and time spent (less) are different so that would explain the lack of headaches...

Additionally:

On PubMed I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wifi headache
"There were more statistically significant associations (36%) than could be expected by chance (5%)."

34 scientific studies showing adverse effects:

http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/papers-finding-adverse-biological-effects-damage-to-health-from-wi-fi/

Apparently, one can buy a TriField meter to measure EMF, and decise where they are the weakest in a house. For a very interesting experience, read the first review:

http://www.amazon.com/ss/customer-r...F8&ref_=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt&showViewpoints=1

Apparently the dimmer switches were the biggest offenders in EMF filed...

 

[zgmc]

Can't tell if serious.?. I work with someone who believes stuff like this. She also truly thinks that she has some kind of greater knowledge because she popped out 4 kids.

 

[zgmc]

For a little background relating to my previous post; Just the other day she said that if you eat a restricted calorie diet you will have a heart attack. She followed this up by telling us that drinking a glass of water an hour before you go to bed will prevent you from having a heart attack while you are sleeping.

 

[billvon]

OK, so how do you explain that for years, I had these extreme headaches and I didn't associate them with wifi?

There are thousands of reasons for headaches; one of them could well be some effect of the wifi router. I just doubt that it is the 2.4GHz radiation from it.

So clearly, in my case it isn't psychosomatic or whatever you call it, but real....

I agree that it's real. I just don't think that it is caused by 2.4GHz EM radiation.

Years ago I had a friend that swore that her alarm clock's radiation (from ELF radiation, another popular cause given for a host of maladies) was giving her headaches. She got rid of it, her headaches went away. She replaced it, it came back. That's proof that it's the 60Hz radiation from the clock. Right?

Then her apartment complex put a security light on the other side of the parking lot. It shone through a crack in the window. The headaches came back. At first she thought that it was EM radiation again, this time from the light. I pointed out that the transformer for the apartment complex was even closer to her than the light was, and that hadn't changed. She eventually realized that light just plain kept her awake and she couldn't sleep well with extra light in the room. She got better drapes and the problem went away.

Does that mean her problem was psychosomatic? Definitely not! She had a real problem. She just misdiagnosed the cause.

 

[Syzygys]

There are thousands of reasons for headaches; one of them could well be some effect of the wifi router. I just doubt that it is the 2.4GHz radiation from it.

1. Well, everything else being the same, except the wifi off and headaches gone, it is reasonable to think that it was the cause of it.
2. Earlier you said that it could be that I unconsciously associated it with the wifi, but it is clearly not the case because the association happened years later.

I have been looking at buying an EMF or RF meter, just for the fun of it. Of course the more accurates are more expensive, but around a 100 bucks I can get a fairly decent one. Just have to make sure it also measures RF, so it would pinpoint the router's effect...

http://www.amazon.com/Trifield-100X...=UTF8&qid=1413719532&sr=8-1&keywords=trimeter

This one doesn't measure the RF though....