Why rape is unique and why should it be a distinct crime from battery?

[GeoffP]

Gotcha! Okay, penetration without informed consent should satisfy the statute’s force requirement, but then how do we prove it was non-consensual vs. consensual?

Is a good2go app necessary?

No need to be cheeky. Apple does have an "End of the world" app. Would it be the strangest thing you'd ever heard of?

"Permission can be found in words or action that, when viewed in the light the circumstances, would demonstrate consent to a reasonable person. The victim does not have to demonstrate expressed non-consent or resistance."

If permission can be found in words or actions, would a video consent form be useful?

http://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/...dressler/rape/state-in-the-interest-of-m-t-s/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/09/29/good2go_a_new_app_for_consenting_to_sex.html

We don’t want flowers and chocolates. We want condoms and consent forms!

Weelll... same question. We live in a time and society that's evolving. I agree that it deviates from our expectations of our own culture, but then again so does every material advance that man has made in the last hundred years. Is there a practical objection, or just aesthetics?

 

[Kittamaru]

It'd be against whoever the lawyer can get it to be against, frankly. I think that's the way these things work out.

Indeed - typically, from what I've seen, it ends up being "the People of *insert location/state/what have you here* vs *insert name of the person who had sex with a minor*

 

[Kittamaru]

Thank you, I'm sure.

Really? Which words, precisely, did I twist Kitt?

See your next statement.

You didn't. What you did imply is that there are some rapes that are not "real". Right here: 'Obviously, you cannot really rape someone without "using force against another" and without "resulting in harmful, offensive, or sexual contact".' http://www.sciforums.com/threads/wh...tinct-crime-from-battery.142947/#post-3239717

Indeed - and in the case of sex with a minor, or any other variation of statutory rape, it is still offensive sexual contact. Or... are you trying to claim that statutory rape is not somehow "offensive"?

Do you not know this? It was my point in the first place...

So you are making an apparent counter-argument to my point that you agree with... for what reasons?

And in the end, your point, per your verbatim quote: "Obviously, you cannot really rape someone without 'using force against another'" is still incorrect.

So you do not consider coercion to be force? Because, lets be honest - if an adult and a minor have sex, who is it, generally, that has suggested having sex, or planted the suggestion? For that matter, should it be a case where the minor has actually suggested having sex, who is it that gave consent, hm? Either way, the adult has, in some way, manipulated the minor - if nothing else, they know that what is about to happen is ILLEGAL.

Is it possible to rape without use of physical violence? Sure. It is still, b the legal definition, battery.

But you're not man enough to admit that you spoke out of hand. You're sloppy with your denotations and even sloppier with your connotations. End of story.

Oh? I apologize if I've confused you by using the legal definition of the term Battery - perhaps you should brush up on your vocabulary before partaking in verbal jousting, because at this point all you are doing is waving your arms around and crying foul.

 

[Randwolf]

Indeed - and in the case of sex with a minor, or any other variation of statutory rape, it is still offensive sexual contact. Or... are you trying to claim that statutory rape is not somehow "offensive"?

Offensive to whom?

So you are making an apparent counter-argument to my point that you agree with... for what reasons?

I'm not.

So you do not consider coercion to be force? Because, lets be honest - if an adult and a minor have sex, who is it, generally, that has suggested having sex, or planted the suggestion?

I don't know Kitt, Who? Generally? Please provide statistics, with citations.

For that matter, should it be a case where the minor has actually suggested having sex, who is it that gave consent, hm?

Hmmm? Considering that a minor cannot give consent, by definition, what is your point? Mine is that rape does not always invovle battery. Refute that...

Either way, the adult has, in some way, manipulated the minor

Really? Based on your unsubstantiated assertion?

if nothing else, they know that what is about to happen is ILLEGAL.

Do they?

Is it possible to rape without use of physical violence? Sure. It is still, b the legal definition, battery.

This is where you're wrong.

Oh? I apologize if I've confused you by using the legal definition of the term Battery - perhaps you should brush up on your vocabulary before partaking in verbal jousting, because at this point all you are doing is waving your arms around and crying foul.

You've confused no one except yourself.

 

[Trooper]

No need to be cheeky. Apple does have an "End of the world" app. Would it be the strangest thing you'd ever heard of?



Weelll... same question. We live in a time and society that's evolving. I agree that it deviates from our expectations of our own culture, but then again so does every material advance that man has made in the last hundred years. Is there a practical objection, or just aesthetics?

The California's Senate Bill 967, “Yes means yes” was signed into law, rewriting the rules of consent. I think it’s a move in a positive direction but it’s going to be tricky.

You have to admit that the Good2Go app is a little odd, though. What if you change your mind? Would it make it more difficult to prosecute? It may raise awareness, and help defend against false claims, but it doesn't really solve the problem.

 

[Kittamaru]

Offensive to whom?I'm not.I don't know Kitt, Who? Generally? Please provide statistics, with citations.Hmmm? Considering that a minor cannot give consent, by definition, what is your point? Mine is that rape does not always invovle battery. Refute that...

Then you are illiterate... I have already provided citations.

Battery
Definition
1. In criminal law, a physical act that results in harmful or offensive contact with another's person without that person's consent.

2. In tort law, the intentional causation of harmful or offensive contact with another's person without that person's consent.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/battery

Offensive to whom? So you honestly do not think sex with a minor is offensive? That speaks volumes of your character. Sex with a minor is offensive to simple sensibilities - an adult has power over a minor, simple as that... using that power to get sex is despicable.

Really? Based on your unsubstantiated assertion?Do they?

So you claim that there is no way an adult, by being the "authority figure", can manipulate a minor? Or that a teacher, being the authority figure, can manipulate a student? Or a host of other issues?

 

[Trooper]

Obviously, you cannot really rape someone without "using force against another".

Kitt, repeat after me. I was wrong. It's not about force. It's about consent.

Now, begone.

 

[Kittamaru]

Kitt, repeat after me. I was wrong. It's not about force. It's about consent.

Now, begone.

I never said it wasn't about consent - however, you questioned whether or not rape and battery were parallel - as it stands, no, they are not. All rape involves some form of battery - not all battery involves rape; by definition, that is correct.

Or, are you only worried about it being correct when it is convenient for you?

 

[Trooper]

I never said it wasn't about consent - however, you questioned whether or not rape and battery were parallel - as it stands, no, they are not. All rape involves some form of battery - not all battery involves rape; by definition, that is correct.

Or, are you only worried about it being correct when it is convenient for you?

The OP was about violent assaults, but you're still wrong. Rape is about consent, now.

Do you see any potential problems with this? Will this place the burden of proof on the accused? How would an innocent person prove consent under this new standard?

 

[Kittamaru]

The OP was about violent assaults, but you're still wrong. Rape is about consent, now.

Do you see any potential problems with this? Will this place the burden of proof on the accused? How would an innocent person prove consent under this new standard?

hm?

Does anyone agree with the woman in the following video, who believes that the best way to overcome the inequality of women is to assert a parallel between rape and nonsexual violent assaults, if not, why?

Cluelusshusbund just linked a video on street harassment. At the end of the following video, the question of punishment for verbal sexual harassment and freedom of speech is addressed. Should verbal sexual harassment be punishable? What are your thoughts?

I don't see anything about consent in that - rather, it seems to be a question of "are rape and violent assaults parallel crimes?"

Regardless - Do I see any potential problems? Of course - there are problems with any legal proceeding. The "victim" can be lying, the accused could have hidden their identity, both parties could have been shit-faced-drunk, etc.

The question is... do you know of a better solution?

 

[Trooper]

The question is... do you know of a better solution?

Oh, silly me. So, that's the question, huh? Says who?

 

[Kittamaru]

Oh, silly me. So, that's the question, huh? Says who?

So the answer then, is no - and thus, this thread is pointless.

So, again... give me a reason to not cesspool this as pointless spam?

 

[Trooper]

We're having a discussion. I would like it to continue but you keep trolling it. I'm tired and nobody wants to spoon feed you.

Goodnight, Kitt.

 

[Kittamaru]

We're having a discussion. I would like it to continue but you keep trolling it. I'm tired and nobody wants to spoon feed you.

Goodnight, Kitt.

So there is none... fair enough.