Why does it seem like there is no moderation in Physics and Math?
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Maybe a civility moderator in the forums where there is no active moderation would be a major step in providing the kind of place that a wide population of members would appreciate. It is not a big enough error for someone who is simply trying to discuss a topic in P&M, to be branded a troll or personally attacked. Maybe a "civility moderator" could have the permission to delete swear words, delete personal attacks, unnecessary disparagement, and split off posts, including OPs, that are off topic or out of place, to new threads in the appropriate forum, etc.
If you want PhDs, maybe they will come and stay if the environment lets them share their knowledge, teach people, help people learn for themselves, and if they are treated with the civility and respect that they want to be treated with. Maybe they will also show that they deserve civility and respect by being civil and respectful.
I'd say that chat with anyone about any issue relative to physics & math, or cosmology, can be considered an opportunity for teaching and learning, and people will join in if it is civil. Because everyone doesn't believe that the consensus theories in physics, cosmology, or quantum mechanics are the final answer, there are going to be frequent questions that get raised about them. Someone should be there to state what the consensus theory says, and give what the generally accepted answer is to a question, and then allow discussion about why someone might be skeptical, without it being considered ignorant or trolling, and then resulting in personal attacks.
Many of use are skeptical of theories that don't work together, and that don't answer or even address simple questions. Many of us know the limitations of physics and cosmology, and are familiar with what the reasonable alternative ideas are, as well as what the generally accepted answers are. Being told to post it in the Fringe is a phony solution because people want informed responses, and you don't get that in the Fringe. A civility moderator could allow discussions like that and intervene when disparagement and disdain get personal or off topic.
Aren't we tired yet of the same people attacking the "usual suspects" for the never forgotten issues of the past, at the expense of the current topic, civility, and the general tone of discussions in the hard science forums? Bring on a civility moderator whose role it is to enforce it.
If you want PhDs, maybe they will come and stay if the environment lets them share their knowledge, teach people, help people learn for themselves, and if they are treated with the civility and respect that they want to be treated with. Maybe they will also show that they deserve civility and respect by being civil and respectful.
I'd say that chat with anyone about any issue relative to physics & math, or cosmology, can be considered an opportunity for teaching and learning, and people will join in if it is civil. Because everyone doesn't believe that the consensus theories in physics, cosmology, or quantum mechanics are the final answer, there are going to be frequent questions that get raised about them. Someone should be there to state what the consensus theory says, and give what the generally accepted answer is to a question, and then allow discussion about why someone might be skeptical, without it being considered ignorant or trolling, and then resulting in personal attacks.
Many of use are skeptical of theories that don't work together, and that don't answer or even address simple questions. Many of us know the limitations of physics and cosmology, and are familiar with what the reasonable alternative ideas are, as well as what the generally accepted answers are. Being told to post it in the Fringe is a phony solution because people want informed responses, and you don't get that in the Fringe. A civility moderator could allow discussions like that and intervene when disparagement and disdain get personal or off topic.
Aren't we tired yet of the same people attacking the "usual suspects" for the never forgotten issues of the past, at the expense of the current topic, civility, and the general tone of discussions in the hard science forums? Bring on a civility moderator whose role it is to enforce it.
Acutally most of us DO NOT fully understand the theories. We know the general idea of the theories.
If someone comes to the P & M forum and asks an honest question no matter how 'crazy' I do not know of any instances where the person is disparaged.
If a person comes to math and physics and says that some theory is wrong because they don't like it, that attitude is not being civil, IMO. If we had a civility moderator, the proper course would be to get on a plane and fly to the house of the person complaining about "the mainstream" and kick him in the nuts.
Unsupported conjectures such as your "SCM" belong in the fringe section. It would be awful if someone came to this site and read something written by one of the "unusual suspects" in the science section and went away spouting garbage and claiming it was accurate because they read it in a science forum!
I don't know of any instance where someone has has said a theory is wrong because they don't like it. The attitude that if they did they should be kicked in the balls is what is uncivil.
The reason people reject Quantum mechanics and Relativity is because they don't like it because it goes against their everday experiences.
Hmmm, do you really think so? Well, I will meet you half way on this and let's just say not kick very hard in the nuts.
OK... I know very little of P&M, but, I can bitch, and insult, as well as the next guy...
If you can't make Reiku mod, I am officially volunteering.
Hell, even though I have very little knowledge in the area, I probably would do just as well in the position.
Just a thought...
If you can't make Reiku mod, I am officially volunteering.
Hell, even though I have very little knowledge in the area, I probably would do just as well in the position.
Just a thought...
Where did you come up with that?
You are the one who came up with it, so do you really think so? Is that the kind of reasoning you use to make your case in favor of incivility?
Ah, an interested party. Suppose you were being considered; would you go in favor of civility, or kick 'em in the nuts, as Origin prefers?
Civility should always be in place... But, at times, nuts do need kicking. Just sayin'.
I have experience in moderation... It's not always easy. I always try to be fair.
But, at times, if you just don't bitch slap, things get out of hand.
But, I digress... Civility should always be the rule.
OK, you can have P&M, I'll take Cosmology, lol.
Fair enough... Deal. : )
Can we bitch slap now, civilly of course?
You betcha... I have big hands though.
Just an observation.
:roflmao:
Now there's a film we'd really love to see. You should play the role of Dr. Storm Cloud--retired chair of the National Academies and possessing superhuman powers linked to excessive cerebral synaptic activity while having an MRI-- reactivated by special executive order, to find the source of a brain numbing chemical introduced into the comfort foods of choice of a large sleeper cell of climate denialits (chili, corndogs, Budweiser...) Straight funkadelic sound tracks all the way through.
It always surprises me that the cranks almost expect to engage people on advanced topics when really the only thing ever at stake is some nutty misconception about the most basic stuff. I'm of the opinion that just about anyone who ever did well in geometry (logics and proofs) and has a pretty good high school level of math & science (like say the AP classes) can set most of the cranks straight (the ones who are still trainable, which is rare among cranks.)
Exactly. The big difference is when they ride up with all kinds of crank BS and start flaming. The other side of that is that the nuts may join in and derail the thread which was beginning to look like a tutorial.
You do a pretty good job of taking care of that without having to resort to aforementioned Austin Powers style of Tae Kwon Do.
You usually recognize the sock puppets by the characteristic flaws, and you usually give them fair opportunity to correct their errors before nailing them. Brucep is quick to place them in check too. billvon and russ_waters can be counted on to stump the chumps, too. I've noticed noticed Capt Bork has been actively doing this for a month or so, and recently physbang started doing so as well. Now there are a couple of newer posters who are also making some excellent posts while kicking butt and taking names (lpetrich and btr?). AlexG and Beer are good for randomly driving up with some very humiliating but often hilarious remarks to put the cranks in their places. przyk is also good with standing ground against nonsense and sometimes even takes it to extended volleys. russ_waters has adopted a lot of your way of responding, and was a an excellent second line of defense when that nut wave struck earlier in the year, back when you threw in the towel for a while.I noticed back then (Jan/Feb?) JamesR announced that he would not be available to police the forum like he had been doing. Trippy stepped up and saved us a lot of grief whenever he was called to help, but like you say, the moderating is not nearly as active as it once was.
It was interesting to see feedback from Fraggle. Trippy, Kittamaru and Tiassa have all alluded to something going on behind the scenes as far as changes to site policy & management. At one point I thought there was going to be an announcement of some kind, like the Sultan of Brunei had bought the site, only to tell tell us tomorrow that Sharia law will be in effect.
Who knows?
And you can't see that you just chronicled the reason why P&M is dying?:roflmao:
Now there's a film we'd really love to see. You should play the role of Dr. Storm Cloud--retired chair of the National Academies and possessing superhuman powers linked to excessive cerebral synaptic activity while having an MRI-- reactivated by special executive order, to find the source of a brain numbing chemical introduced into the comfort foods of choice of a large sleeper cell of climate denialits (chili, corndogs, Budweiser...) Straight funkadelic sound tracks all the way through.
It always surprises me that the cranks almost expect to engage people on advanced topics when really the only thing ever at stake is some nutty misconception about the most basic stuff. I'm of the opinion that just about anyone who ever did well in geometry (logics and proofs) and has a pretty good high school level of math & science (like say the AP classes) can set most of the cranks straight (the ones who are still trainable, which is rare among cranks.)
Exactly. The big difference is when they ride up with all kinds of crank BS and start flaming. The other side of that is that the nuts may join in and derail the thread which was beginning to look like a tutorial.
You do a pretty good job of taking care of that without having to resort to aforementioned Austin Powers style of Tae Kwon Do.
I noticed back then (Jan/Feb?) JamesR announced that he would not be available to police the forum like he had been doing. Trippy stepped up and saved us a lot of grief whenever he was called to help, but like you say, the moderating is not nearly as active as it once was.
It was interesting to see feedback from Fraggle. Trippy, Kittamaru and Tiassa have all alluded to something going on behind the scenes as far as changes to site policy & management. At one point I thought there was going to be an announcement of some kind, like the Sultan of Brunei had bought the site, only to tell tell us tomorrow that Sharia law will be in effect.
Who knows?
:roflmao:
Now there's a film we'd really love to see. You should play the role of Dr. Storm Cloud--retired chair of the National Academies and possessing superhuman powers linked to excessive cerebral synaptic activity while having an MRI-- reactivated by special executive order, to find the source of a brain numbing chemical introduced into the comfort foods of choice of a large sleeper cell of climate denialits (chili, corndogs, Budweiser...) Straight funkadelic sound tracks all the way through.
It always surprises me that the cranks almost expect to engage people on advanced topics when really the only thing ever at stake is some nutty misconception about the most basic stuff. I'm of the opinion that just about anyone who ever did well in geometry (logics and proofs) and has a pretty good high school level of math & science (like say the AP classes) can set most of the cranks straight (the ones who are still trainable, which is rare among cranks.)
Exactly. The big difference is when they ride up with all kinds of crank BS and start flaming. The other side of that is that the nuts may join in and derail the thread which was beginning to look like a tutorial.
You do a pretty good job of taking care of that without having to resort to aforementioned Austin Powers style of Tae Kwon Do.
I noticed back then (Jan/Feb?) JamesR announced that he would not be available to police the forum like he had been doing. Trippy stepped up and saved us a lot of grief whenever he was called to help, but like you say, the moderating is not nearly as active as it once was.
It was interesting to see feedback from Fraggle. Trippy, Kittamaru and Tiassa have all alluded to something going on behind the scenes as far as changes to site policy & management. At one point I thought there was going to be an announcement of some kind, like the Sultan of Brunei had bought the site, only to tell tell us tomorrow that Sharia law will be in effect.
Who knows?
This can be fixed by two individuals who are qualified to moderate intellectual debate. They would set the appropriate standards and bring this 'group whining' to an end. If they could. From what I've heard not every forum has the tools the moderation needs to enforce the standards? rpenner knows all about this. Like everything else. Not to sure about this forum since it seems to be extremely easy to 'run over' the forum with crank nonsense and sock puppetry. I think Id and rpenner are qualified to moderate intellectual discourse, between people, in the physics and math sections of this forum.
I made lite earlier... But, I concur.you or rpenner would make fine mods for P&M...
Question is, would either of you want the headache?
Not me for a very reasonable reason. First of all I don't have the knowledge base required to moderate all the subject matter. I could moderate certain subjects I'm comfortable with but that's not good enough in my estimation. Secondly are you nuts? LOL. I have the patience of Job. LOL. I can't even operate the emoticons.