why are you against universal healthcare?

S

sifreak21

Valued Senior Member
i dont see the problem with it at all, i think its a good think why is it bad? i just want to hear peoples opinions on it the only people that are complaining that i can see are the employed healthy people
 
Why are you against total government control?

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draqon said:
Why are you against total government control?
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Having more choices is not control. Most of the Western societies (I know, news for you) have government subsidized health care. Why should the US be the only one without it?
 
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what has healthcare to do with nationalism? if somebody can´t pay for healthcare, the goverment will help. you surely don´t think, that those who can´t afford it, just should die ... do you?
 
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agreed sweet and even if your middleclass or even upper if you dont have healthcare and something major happens to you your looking at medical bills up in the 6 digits
 
The way goods and services in US have become part of a competition, is not through government. In the U.S., competition has come from the private sector competing for the dollar of value-seeking consumers. And that private-sector competition has promoted innovation, meanwhile that innovation has benefited Americans with better and cheaper products and services.

So this whole government run deal will just hold any competition and providing quality care to Americans.
 
Syzygys said:
Having more choices is not control you idiot. Most of the Western societies (I know, news for you) have government subsidized health care. Why should the US be the only one without it?
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as far as i know that isnt "most" its ALL except for the US. Furthermore its not even just the first world who have UHC, even some of the third world like cuba do as well
 
I sort of enjoyed reading this:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/rnr/1574293261.html
Hey you. You there in the Glenn Beck T-shirt headed off to the Tea Party Patriot rally.

Stop shouting for a moment, please, I want to explain to you why you're so very angry.

You should be angry. You're getting screwed.

I think you know that. But you don't seem to know that it doesn't have to be that way. You can stop it. You can stop it easily because the system that's screwing you over can only keep screwing you over if you keep demanding that it do so.

So stop demanding that. Stop helping the system screw you over.

Look, you can go back to yelling at me in a minute, but just read this first.

1. Get out your pay stub.

Or, if you have direct deposit -- you really should get direct deposit, it saves a lot of time and money (I point this out because, honestly, I'm trying to help you here, even though you don't make that easy Mr. Angry Screamy Guy) -- then take out that little paper receipt they give you when your pay gets directly deposited.

2. Notice that your net pay is lower than your gross pay. This is because some of your wages are withheld every pay period.

3. Notice that only some of this money that was withheld went to pay taxes. (I know, I know -- yeearrrgh! me hates taxes! -- but just try to stick with me for just a second here.)

4. Notice that some of the money that was withheld didn't go to taxes, but to your health insurance company.

5. Now go get a pay stub from last year around this time, from January of 2009.

6. Notice that the amount of your pay withheld for taxes in your current paycheck is less than the amount that was withheld a year ago.

That's because of President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan, which included more than $200 billion in tax cuts, including the one you're holding right there in your hand, the tax cut that's now staring you in the face. Republicans all voted against that tax cut. And then they told you to get angry about the stimulus plan. They didn't explain, however, why you were supposed to get angry about getting a tax cut. Why would you be? Wouldn't it make more sense to get angry at the people who voted against that Obama tax cut?

But taxes aren't the really important thing here. The really important thing starts with the next point.

7. Notice that the amount of your pay withheld to pay for your health insurance is more than it was last year.

8. Notice that the amount of your pay withheld to pay for your health insurance is a lot more than it was last year.

I won't ask you to dig up old paychecks from 2008 and 2007, but this has been going on for a long time. Every year, the amount of your paycheck withheld to pay for your health insurance goes up. A lot.

9. Notice the one figure there on your two pay stubs that hasn't changed: Your wage. The raise you didn't get this year went to pay for that big increase in the cost of your health insurance.

10. Here's where I need you to start doing a better job of putting two and two together. If you didn't get a raise last year because the cost of your health insurance went up by a lot, and the cost of your health insurance is going to go up by a lot again this year, what do you think that means for any chance you might have of getting a raise this year?

11. Did you figure it out? That's right. The increasing cost of health insurance means you won't get a raise this year. Or next year. Or the year after that. The increasing cost of health insurance means you will never get a raise again.

That's what I meant when I said you really should be angry. That's what I meant when I said you're getting screwed.

OK, we're almost done. Just a few more points, I promise.

12. The only hope you have of ever seeing another pay raise is if Congress passes health care reform. Without health care reform, the increasing cost of your health insurance will swallow this year's raise. And next year's raise. And pretty soon it won't stop with just your raise. Without health care reform, the increasing cost of your health insurance will start making your pay go down.

13. I wish I could tell you that this was just a worst-case scenario, that this was only something that might, maybe happen, but that wouldn't be true. Without health care reform, this is what will happen. We know this because this is what is happening now. It has been happening for the past 10 years. In 2008, employers spent on average 25 percent more per employee than they did in 2001, but wages on average did not increase during those years. The price of milk went up. The price of gas went up. But wages did not. All of the money that would have gone to higher wages went to pay the higher and higher and higher cost of health insurance. And unless Congress passes health care reform, that will not change.

Well, it will change in the sense that it will keep getting worse, but it won't get better. Unless the problem gets fixed, the problem won't be fixed. That's kind of what "problem" and "fixed" mean.

14. Sadly for any chance you have of ever seeing a raise again, it looks like Congress may not pass health care reform. It looks like they won't do that because they're scared of angry voters who are demanding that they oppose health care reform, angry voters who demand that Congress not do anything that would keep the cost of health insurance from going up and up and up. Angry voters like you.

15. Do you see the point here? You are angrily, loudly demanding that Congress make sure that you never, ever get another pay raise as long as you live. Because of you and because of your angry demands, you and your family and your kids are going to have to get by with less this year than last year. And next year you're going to have to get by with even less. And if you keep angrily demanding that no one must ever fix this problem, then you're going to have to figure out how to get by on less and less every year for the rest of your life.

16. So please, for your own sake, for your family's sake and the sake of your children, stop. Stop demanding that problems not get fixed. Stop demanding that you keep getting screwed. Stay angry -- you should be angry -- but start directing that anger toward the system that's screwing you over and taking money out of your pocket. Start directing that anger toward fixing problems instead of toward making sure they never get fixed. Instead of demanding that Congress oppose health care reform so that you never, ever, get another pay raise, start demanding that they pass health care reform, as soon as possible. Because until they do, you're just going to keep on getting screwed.

And it's going to be that much worse knowing that you brought this on yourself -- that you demanded it.

Thanks for your time.

P.S. -- I didn't mention this because I'm trying here to be as patient with you as I can, but you might also want to keep in mind that in addition to screwing over yourself and screwing over your family and screwing over your own children by demanding that Congress oppose health care reform so that you will never, ever see another pay raise, by doing that you're also demanding that I never, ever see another pay raise, which means that you're also screwing over me, and my family, and my children. Not to mention the millions of poor and uninsured and uninsureable people I didn't even mention above because they don't seem to matter at all to you. And for that, let me just say the only appropriate thing that can be said to someone so determined to do direct, tangible harm to the welfare of my family: Fuck you, you fucking moron.
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Asguard said:
as far as i know that isnt "most" its ALL except for the US. Furthermore its not even just the first world who have UHC, even some of the third world like cuba do as well
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UNIVERSAL CUBAN HEALTHCARE​

was that bold in enough letters? :rolleyes: sounds solid Gold healthcare for all those people in Cuba, real quality.

cuba_healthcare_under_castro.jpg
 
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

Oh god, of COURSE the AMA agrees with you. They are a lobby group for christ sake. Why the hell do you think the Australian MA was so against "Job subsitution" which was recomended in the intergenerational health review? Because it would take jobs away from DOCTORS and give them to the other proffessions who would probably do a better job in a lot of areas than the doctors are

Note: Job subsitution means moving other health services into the front line. For instance:

-Psycologists would be seeing pts for psycological problems without ever seeing a GP
-Nurse practitioners (very senor nurses who have done aditional study) would be running clinics equivlant to GP clinics and treating people for minor bacterial infections ect
-Midwives would take on primary responcability for low risk pregancies including ordering pain relief and ultrasounds ect without the pt ever needing an obstrition
-Paramedic practioners would take over running emergency rooms and push doctors back to treating the more serious cases after paramedic assesments
-Phsio's would be ordering there own imaging (x-rays and the like) and treating without the pt ever needing to see a doctor

Further more why is it that the AMA shot down a goverment plan to alow nurses, pharmisits and psycologists to write "medical certificates" without the need to see a GP when it can take up to 3 or more DAYS to get into see a GP?

The answer to both is THEY WOULD LOSE MONEY AND POWER
 
Syzygys said:
Having more choices is not control you idiot. Most of the Western societies (I know, news for you) have government subsidized health care. Why should the US be the only one without it?
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including two of the most pro business states taiwan and switzerland.
 
Adding a public option would increase competition. Why are the insurance companies afraid of it?
 
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