Why are things in space the shape that they are?

[Michael 345]

We are talking how the universe communicates with itself and chronicles its own dimensional and organizational measurements

As soon as you begin to anthropomorphic the Universe to the degree you exhibit sorry but you have lost the plot

 

[paddoboy]

Galileo Galilei wrote in the seventeenth century, "In order to understand the universe, you must know the language in which it is written. And that language is mathematics."

And mathematics was INVENTED so it came l o n g after the Universe had been operating by the laws of physics

Pretty wise utterrances, even for a Territorian !

Which is why the universe appears "mathematical" as it is the language of physics, which give rise to the cosmological model that we observe.

 

[Michael 345]

Pretty wise utterrances, even for a Territorian !

Starting to feel like a Balian

 

[paddoboy]

Starting to feel like a Balian

Not to worry, you'll always be welcome back home!

 

[Write4U]

ALLfundamental ACTIONS must be PHYSICALLY possible or PHYSICS would not WORK

And that is determined by the mathematics, no?

And mathematics was INVENTED so it came l o n g after the Universe had been operating by the laws of physics

An the laws of physics are....not mathematical in essence?
The universe always worked physically without any maths, but when man invented maths from observing how the universe worked physically the universe magically started functioning with mathematical precision and predictability?

I will stipulate that natural selection is physically chaotic in essence, but obviously in the long term, the resulting evolutionary effects will allow for a probabilistic mathematical model as Chaos Theory predicts.

 

[Michael 345]

And that is determined by the mathematics, no?

The MATHEMATICS is determined by the PHYSICS

but when man invented maths from observing how the universe worked physically the universe magically started functioning with mathematical precision and predictability?

Again with having a sequence arse about. Physics operates with exquisite precision and predictability

• regardless of
• maths
• microtubules
• you
• me
• James
• Donald
• The Queen
• hippopotamus
• COVID-19

mathematical model

I am sure, should us Minions so desire we could invent a system of formula where every physical operation was represented by a colour

Your position would be, in such a situation, the Universe Physics is determined by the colours, no?

And you would be as incorrect in that Universe as you are in this one sorry

 

[Write4U]

The MATHEMATICS is determined by the PHYSICS

Forget the word human "mathematics", like human "physics" they are manmade words. Let's stay with universal "values and "functions".

Physics operates with exquisite precision and predictability

Yes, this is the definition of "Universal mathematical" processing of physical and non-physical relational values.

The order in physics is determined by the mathematical essence of spacetime and everything in it.

https://physicsworld.com/a/time-varying-signals-control-sound-waves-in-topological-metamaterials/

Your position would be, in such a situation, the Universe Physics is determined by the colours, no?

No. no, the Universal Physical behaviors are determined by their inherent "relational values" (of any kind) interacting via "mathematical (algebraic) functions".

According to the story, Galileo discovered through this experiment that the objects fell with the same acceleration, proving his prediction true, while at the same time disproving Aristotle's theory of gravity (which states that objects fall at speed proportional to their mass). Most historians consider it to have been a thought experiment rather than a physical test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment#

Galileo based his "law of falling bodies" on the theoretical mathematics (rate of acceleration), Aristotle based his "law of falling bodies" on the "physics" of difference in mass (weight). Aristotle was wrong.

Mathematics

While Galileo's application of mathematics to experimental physics was innovative, his mathematical methods were the standard ones of the day, including dozens of examples of an inverse proportion square root method passed down from Fibonacci and Archimedes. The analysis and proofs relied heavily on the Eudoxian theory of proportion, as set forth in the fifth book of Euclid's Elements. This theory had become available only a century before, thanks to accurate translations by Tartaglia and others; but by the end of Galileo's life, it was being superseded by the algebraic methods of Descartes.

The concept now named
Galileo's paradox was not original with him. His proposed solution, that infinite numbers cannot be compared, is no longer considered useful.

Astronaut David Scott performed a version of the experiment on the Moon during the Apollo 15 mission in 1971, dropping a feather and a hammer from his hands. Because of the negligible lunar atmosphere, there was no drag on the feather, which hit the ground at the same time as the hammer.

Hammer and Feather Drop by astronaut David Scott, Apollo 15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Falling_bodies

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I understand the difference between "knowing without doing" and "doing without knowing".

It has nothing to do with this concept.

Consistency seems advisable here.

Consistency can only restrict ones thinking to known rules without leaving the door open for unknowns.

Your consistency here has you presenting a case for maths that merely suits your opinion.

The Universe works in a consistent predictable manner, no?

I can't not answer I don't know all the information required to understand this planet let alone the rest of the universe.

IMO, all that means is, humans know how the universe functions, even as the universe itself doesn't need to know anything, it just does things that way.

This leaves out the importance of maths?

Algebra is not a clever trick.

I use it to work out how much oil to put in the petrol to make two stroke fuel...that's a clever trick.

Man's greatest "discovery" is the discovery of universal mathematics.

There is no need to bring humans into this.

p.s. Your civility can be held as an example of productive social intercourse....

Having got one thing correct use it to build upon and gain confidence for wider observations.

To say' "we won due to overwhelming physical force" is really not very informative of the actual mathematical strategic and tactical maneuvers involved.

You think the complexity is in the math?..it is not..math is the simplified version.

Why does a sniper need a "spotter"? Sniper is the shooter, needing to take into account the environmental conditions of distance, elevation, wind speed, humidity.

Complex issues described in a simplistic fashion we call maths.

Without the spotter it would be impossible to execute "one shot, one kill".

Without a rifle it would be even more difficult.

Did the universe begin as a point object or a field pattern?

There was no beginning for the universe and it is only maths that has corrupted that truth.

We can argue that these mathematical instruments are only useful to humans,

I don't know that we could..if math is so universal other species may argue that math is useful to them also.

but that's missing the point that all human mathematics are derivative of universal mathematics.

I do not think that it is possible to argue there is universal mathematics...do you have any views on this aspect?

Alex

 

[Write4U]

I do not think that it is possible to argue there is universal mathematics...do you have any views on this aspect?

That is what I have been trying to present. Yes, the universe has not changed any of its properties and behaviors, since the beginning. The latecomer Man's greatest accomplisment is to observe and understand the "necessary"
relational values and the logical processes as they exist in spacetime and become expressed as physical objects.

Is mathematics the greatest discovery in the history of mankind?
David Kofh, CEO at Kofh Publishing Coro (1980-present)
Answered December 5, 2018

Mathematics is just logic, logic written down symbolically.

The logical essence of spacetime.

Logic is a quality of the Superego Intelligence. It is very important. It has Created the present technological age. In fact, in it’s my difference capacities, the Superego has accomplished Nietzsche‘s goal of replacing god now. A god Nietzsche believe was no longer needed.

I don't like the term Superego as it smacks of sentience. IMO, spacetime needs not be sentient, it is a quasi-intelligent geometric which uses logical processes which humans have been able to observe, analyze, and symbolize with human mathematics.

But Nietzsche did not see that Reality is the almighty god that logic can discover and manipulate to man’s benefit.

Why confuse the issue with a vague concept of God, which is superfluous.
This posit claims that God is a mathematician. If God existed, I would agree, but God is not necessary

There are benefits in recognizing that numbers are symbolic ways of expressing logic. The logic behind Numbers has the added benefit of being juggled and manipulated by its own rules such that new relationships appear before the logic of their meanings are understood.

That quality is the main reason for this question. For an example, Boolean Algebra was just mathemathical nonsense when it’s was first discovered. There was no clue that it would become the basis for the logic Gates it later was recognized to have been explaining.

To make my point more clear, if we logically understood something and then wanted to express that idea numerically, great efforts would have recognized the Boolian Algebra that expressed the logic symbolically.

Mathematicians of the highest order repeat this idea, that we already understand the things we seemingly discover in math because we already know them, logically, but just discover how to write them down as a consequence to the previous rules of math we already have written.

This phenomenon is called beauty by mathematicians who sees the charm of the conversions from logic to written mathematical analysis

https://www.quora.com/Is-mathematics-the-greatest-discovery-in-the-history-of-mankind

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Is mathematics the greatest discovery in the history of mankind?

The greatest discovery???
I would say finding that we could eat flesh burned in forrest fires.
Nice post, I must go...thanks for the chat.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

The greatest discovery???
I would say finding that we could eat flesh burned in forrest fires.
Nice post, I must go...thanks for the chat.
Alex

If go with The ROUND WHEEL

Puny Minions were wasting to much energy with the square wheels

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

The ROUND WHEEL

If not for the round wheel they never would have invented the hand brake.

I always think about the poor old bullocks..they had to pull all the time...down hill a log was attracted to the waggon so it would not move down hill...so even down hill the bullocks still had to pull....and that was even after the invention of the round wheel.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Without cooking women would not have been invented. Cooking gave us a better brain with which we invented work and warfare.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

If not for the round wheel they never would have invented the hand brake.

Yes. Only advantage of the square wheel, it didn't run away on you

Round wheels made things more complicated

 

[Write4U]

If not for the round wheel they never would have invented the hand brake.

I always think about the poor old bullocks..they had to pull all the time...down hill a log was attracted to the waggon so it would not move down hill...so even down hill the bullocks still had to pull....and that was even after the invention of the round wheel.
Alex

Jeez...the Dung Beetle was the first animal that rolled its food home 200 million years ago.....

Dung Beetle

Many dung beetles, known as rollers, roll dung into round balls, which are used as a food source or breeding chambers

The nocturnal African dung beetle Scarabaeus satyrus is one of the few known non-vertebrate animals that navigate and orient themselves using the Milky Way.[4][5]

A scarab, depicted on the walls of Tomb KV6 in the Valley of the Kings

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Jeez...the Dung Beetle was the first animal that rolled its food home 200 million years ago.....

It is the first animal you are aware of however could that behaviour not be from earlier times...how would you describe a small mammal stealing an egg , for food, from a reptile or from a bird or even I suspect from a fish? Particularly if they moved it by rolling...maybe oval eggs were harder to roll and thereby gave its occupants a greater chance of survival so as to see eggs becoming pointy...or did eggs become pointy as that made them easier to lay?

That would be one (reptile) minus one (egg) equals one (mammal) plus one ( egg) opps it eats the egg so thats thats an egg for both sides out of the equation.

Alex

 

[DaveC426913]

Without cooking women would not have been invented.

Wait. What?

Some caveman cooking bronto burgers with all his caveman buddies suddenly thought to himself: "Hey, this cooking thing is tiresome. We need someone else to do it. Let's invent women."

 

[Michael 345]

Forget the word human "mathematics", like human "physics" they are manmade words. Let's stay with universal "values and "functions".

OK

Next part of post

Yes, this is the definition of "Universal mathematical" processing of physical and non-physical relational values.

The order in physics is determined by the mathematical essence of spacetime and everything in it

Used 5 times (my underlining to highlight)

Continuing to Forget the word human "mathematics", like human "physics" we have

No. no, the Universal Physical behaviors are determined by their inherent "relational values" (of any kind) interacting via "mathematical (algebraic) functions".

And our our forgetting extends to

Galileo based his "law of falling bodies" on the theoretical mathematics (rate of acceleration), Aristotle based his "law of falling bodies" on the "physics" of difference in mass (weight). Aristotle was wrong.

Think I will drop out this to and fro. Feel like I am a race marshal running backwards trying to explain to a runner they are running in the wrong direction

Let the Universe be run by Mathematical Microtubules I no longer care that much

Have found a great coffee blend and Inul has offered to make another cup for me

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Wait. What?

Some caveman cooking bronto burgers with all his caveman buddies suddenly thought to himself: "Hey, this cooking thing is tiresome. We need someone else to do it. Let's invent women."

No that would be ridiculous.
Alex

 

[Write4U]

Continuing to Forget the word human "mathematics", like human "physics" we have

Sorry that should have read ; forget "human physics" and "human mathematics", and substitute "universal physics" and "universal mathematics".

My error for not being clear enough in drawing the distinction.