Who was Jesus talking to when he said...

Medicine*Woman

Jesus: Mythstory--Not History!
Valued Senior Member
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M*W: To whom was Jesus talking when he allegedly cried out from the cross in Greek, no less, and said, "Eli, eli, lama sabachtheni?" (My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?)

Let me explain... "El" is a shortened form of "Elias," the sun god "Helios," to whom Jesus called out from the cross. "El" is the sun. The "Elohim" also represents the many stars. Also known as the "Ali," who were associated with gods. "Ali" is Egyptian in origin and represents the "Atum," "Aten," and the "Amen," who are all part of "Elohim." "Atum" was later known as "Adam."

Jesus, as the sun of god, was crying out to his heavenly father/creator god, the sun, "Eli" and/or "Helios" who had abandoned him on the cross that day. Then the skies grew dark and stormy as the sun set behind the earth and died.
 
some... SAY THAT IS A MIS-INTERPRETATION...

who knows...

what does it matter?

torture... is well known to get people to say anything... ANYTHING.!!

SOME SAY, he actually said.. "Lord, this is what i came for..."

i.e... to die...


even still... one must realise that it wasnt fun.

he was on the cross... in horrific pain.

-MT
 
some... SAY THAT IS A MIS-INTERPRETATION...

who knows...

what does it matter?

torture... is well known to get people to say anything... ANYTHING.!!

SOME SAY, he actually said.. "Lord, this is what i came for..."

i.e... to die...


even still... one must realise that it wasnt fun.

he was on the cross... in horrific pain.

-MT

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M*W: The "cross" refers to the four points that cross the sun at the vernal equinox. No one was tortured.
 
WELL... it may be nice to think so... but the habit... and well established history of nailing people to crosses.... was Roman....

the romans.... put 1000's up on the crosses...

which i should point out... has got to be better that being Impaled up the ass.....

your in-ability to accept that these very real tortures did happen... and in many forms... continues today.... is very sad.


im afraid your modern secular humanism leaves you blind to the very real evil men are capable of......

an inherent evil.... which is best modified by the religions you oppose.

-MT
 
WELL... it may be nice to think so... but the habit... and well established history of nailing people to crosses.... was Roman....

the romans.... put 1000's up on the crosses...

which i should point out... has got to be better that being Impaled up the ass.....

your in-ability to accept that these very real tortures did happen... and in many forms... continues today.... is very sad.

im afraid your modern secular humanism leaves you blind to the very real evil men are capable of......

an inherent evil.... which is best modified by the religions you oppose.

-MT

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M*W: I don't doubt the Roman's employed such torture, although I've never seen any factual documentation that would indicate they did. If you can provide such proof that the Romans actually did employ this kind of torture, I'd like to see it.

However, the life and times of Jesus is just an allegory of the movements of the constellations and the sun. The bible, especially the NT, is an astrological time table where Jesus is the sun of man as well as the son of god. It don't get no more real than this.
 
I would say he was thinking what in gods name are these people thinking!
 
Let me explain... "El" is a shortened form of "Elias," the sun god "Helios," to whom Jesus called out from the cross. "El" is the sun.
conjecture.
have solid, peer reviewed proof....or is this opinion?




The "Elohim" also represents the many stars. Also known as the "Ali," who were associated with gods. "Ali" is Egyptian in origin and represents the "Atum," "Aten," and the "Amen," who are all part of "Elohim." "Atum" was later known as "Adam."
completely incorrect.
the elohim are the five forces of creation employed by the ein sof, in hebrew religion (which jesus was a follower of). nothing you have said has any connection to the connection of "elohim".

im not sure exactly what you are getting at, but i would like to see some peer reviewed literature on the subject, or maybe even a woo woo website that makes these farfetched connections.
 
conjecture.
have solid, peer reviewed proof....or is this opinion?

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M*W: The citations below are taken from:

Acharya S., The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Adventures Unlimited, 1999.

"In a somewhat common development of the human mind, which allows for polytheism, pantheism, monotheism and atheism at once, the Elohim became perceived as one 'EL.' The word El also represented a deity both male and female, but the later Jews generally interpreted it exclusively as male. El was the sun or 'day star,' as well as the planet Saturn, which at one point was considered the 'central and everlasting sun' of th enight sky. El/Saturn's worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as the Sabbath or 'God's Day.'" Since El is the sun, the many Elohim of the Bible also represent the stars."

And taken from:

Walker, Barbara, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, Harper, 1983.

"Furthermore, El is Elias, "the sun god Helios to whom Jesus called from the cross...".

completely incorrect.
the elohim are the five forces of creation employed by the ein sof, in hebrew religion (which jesus was a follower of). nothing you have said has any connection to the connection of "elohim".

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M:*W: Regarding the Elohim, I quote the following:

Acharya S., The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Adventures Unlimited, 1999.

"The plural Term Elohim appears over 2500 times in the Old Testament but is falsely translated in most versions. This fact of plurality explains why in Genesis "Gods" said, "Let us make man in our image." As stated, Elohim refers to both "gods" and "goddesses," and its singular form, El, served as a prefix or suffix to names of gods, people and places, whence Emmanu-El, Gabri-El, Beth-El, etc. Even "Satan" was one of the Elohim, as Walker relates:

Walker, Barbara, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, Harper, 1983.

'In the original wording, Satan was one of the bene ha-elohim, sons of 'the gods'; but Bible translators always singularized the plurals to conceal the facts that the biblical Jews worshipped a pantheon of multiple gods.'

Of the Elohim, Taylor says:

Taylor, Rev. Robert, The Diegesis, Health Research, 1977.

'The Jewish Elohim were the decans of the Egyptians; the same as the genii of the m onths and planets among the Persians and Chaldeans; and Jao, or Yahous, considered merely as one of the beings generically called Elohim or Alehim, appears to ahve been only a national or topical deity.'

And again from:

Acharya S., The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Adventures Unlimited, 1999.

"The Elohim were in reality a number of "El" gods, such as El Elyon, the "God Most High"; El Sabaoth, the "God of the Heavenly Hosts"; El Chay, the "Living God"; El Neqamah, the "God of Vengence"; El Ma'al, the "God Above"; and El Shaddai, the "Almighty God." El Shaddai was the name of the god of Abraham, or the "God of the fathers," who was replaced by Yahweh in the 6th chapter of Exodus:

Taken from:

Potter, Charles Francis, The Great Religious Leaders, Simon & Schuster, 1958.

'And God spake unto Moses and said unto him, I am Yahweh: and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El Shaddai, but by my name Yahweh I was not known unto them.'

Acharya S., The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Adventures Unlimited, 1999.

Back to Acharya S.:

"Charles Potter relates that El Shaddai was later demonized in Psalms 106:37, condemned as one of the "devils: -- the Canaanite Shedim, to whom the Israelites sacrificed their sons and daughters. Psalms 106, in fact, provides a concise chronicle of how the "chosen people" "whored after" other gods, i.e. were polytheistic."

Churchward, Albert: The Origin and Evolution of Religion. (No date given):

"The Elohim were not only Phoenician and Canaanite gods but as "Ali" were originally Egyptian. The Ali were considered the "associated gods" or "members, i.e. the lips, the limbs, the joints, the hands, etc., of Atum, or Amen, the son of Ptah."

Churchward continues:

"Therefore, as in the Indian system, we have a sort of polytheisic monotheism in the Elohim. The "son of Ptah" is also called Iao/Iau/Iahu/Iu, the same as Yahweh. Therefore, the two accounts of Genesis, the Elohist and Jahwist, may be understood as reflecting the older Egyptian religion: "Thus the Elohim are represented in the first creation of man by the maker, Ptah, and in the second by Iu, the son of Ptah; and Iu, the son of Ptah, is Iahu-Elohim [the biblical Lord God], who becomes the creator of the second Adum [Atum] in the second chapter of the Hebrew Genesis."

im not sure exactly what you are getting at, but i would like to see some peer reviewed literature on the subject, or maybe even a woo woo website that makes these farfetched connections.

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M*W: In a nutshell, what I was getting at was that El, also known as Eli and Elias, is a version of the name Heli and Helios, or the Sun, and that Elohim (plural) could refer to many gods or perhaps the stars.
 
It seems like he would have been talking to God the Father of the old testament, questioning why he had to die for the sins of others.
 
thanks, medicine woman. i am perusing the books right now (luckily, the local library has all of them, albeit in french :p)

ill get back to you in a few days on what i think.
 
OMG..........:eek: :eek: :eek:

The last words from Jesus , were a quote from psalm 22:
in hebrew : " eli, eli , lama azaftani "
or in aramaic (which was the main language in Palestine in first century AD):
" eloi, eloi , metoel mah sabachthani "
The bible simply got it mixed up ...............

Psalm 22 starts with an exclamation of despair but ends with the trust in god .......

Jesus was simply quoting psalm 22 to comfort himself .............
 
It seems like he would have been talking to God the Father of the old testament, questioning why he had to die for the sins of others.
I've been asking myself that same question, especially when God can forgive everyone for their sins himself. It's pretty sad if Jesus himself had to ask dad why Jr. is doing the job Sr. should be doing.
Why would you send your son to do a job you could do yourself better?
 
OMG..........:eek: :eek: :eek:

The last words from Jesus , were a quote from psalm 22:
in hebrew : " eli, eli , lama azaftani "
or in aramaic (which was the main language in Palestine in first century AD):
" eloi, eloi , metoel mah sabachthani "
The bible simply got it mixed up ...............

Psalm 22 starts with an exclamation of despair but ends with the trust in god .......

Jesus was simply quoting psalm 22 to comfort himself .............

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M*W: That may be so, but whatever the origin of the words "eli, eli, lama, sabachtheni," it is referring to speaking to the god in the heavens, or the sun. In fact, "eli" does not mean "my father," it means the "sun" who was called "god." In other words, Jesus could have easily said in English, "My SUN, why are you setting now?
 
There are four different gospels and four different "last words" so who knows what he actually said?

What about "forgive them, for they know not what they do?"

forgive actually derives from the hebrew foremhei, which is to eat carrots on the third saturday.

Whatever.
 
I think the thing to which Jesus referred, if he referred, is irrelevant.
Not the image, but the message is what matters.
 
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M*W: That may be so, but whatever the origin of the words "eli, eli, lama, sabachtheni," it is referring to speaking to the god in the heavens, or the sun. In fact, "eli" does not mean "my father," it means the "sun" who was called "god." In other words, Jesus could have easily said in English, "My SUN, why are you setting now?

this whole concept stretches things farther than occams razor permits....you know this, right?
 
this whole concept stretches things farther than occams razor permits....you know this, right?

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M*W: After having studied both sides of christianity for some 35+ years as well as the heart of it, the final conclusion I have come to is that it was all based on ancient astrology. When I endeavor to search in another direction from this point, I reach a dead-end that continues to confirm that ancient astrology leads to the basis of all theology. Now that I've come to this point in my research, I am confident I can never go in another direction and be right about it. I don't think Occam's Razor has anything to do with it.
 
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