Who Needs oil

Huh?


No biological molecule can survive past the critical temperature of salt water which is 5 to 7 kilometers deep depending on whether you are in a marine or continental environment.


Indeed.


No biological molecule can survive past the critical temperature of salt water which is 5 to 7 kilometers deep depending on whether you are in a marine or continental environment.


No biological molecule can survive past the critical temperature of salt water which is 5 to 7 kilometers deep depending on whether you are in a marine or continental environment.


"Statistical thermodynamic analysis has established clearly that hydrocarbon molecules which comprise petroleum require very high pressures for their spontaneous formation, comparable to the pressures required for the same of diamond. In that sense, hydrocarbon molecules are the high-pressure polymorphs of the reduced carbon system as is diamond of elemental carbon. Any notion which might suggest that hydrocarbon molecules spontaneously evolve in the regimes of temperature and pressure characterized by the near-surface of the Earth, which are the regimes of methane creation and hydrocarbon destruction, does not even deserve consideration." -- Emmanuil B. Chekaliuk, 1968

meybe get yourself updated old timer

Microbes have been found in nearly every nook and cranny that Earth has to offer, from deep-sea vents to the drainage from acid mines.

Some estimates reckon that two-thirds of Earths microbial biomass could be found below the sea floor although given the difficulty of sampling so far below the waves, it is almost impossible to say for certain.

But conditions become progressively harsher deeper in the sediment. The rock becomes older and more likely to be depleted of the organic material for microbes to feast on.

Meanwhile, pressure and temperature steadily rise. In some regions, the temperature rises 20 degC for every kilometre deeper below the sea floor.

At present, the uppermost temperature at which life can survive is estimated at around 120 degC.

If temperature is the ultimate limit, then one might reasonably expect the biosphere to extend as much as 5 kilometres below the sea floor, said Steven DHondt, an oceanographer at the University of Rhode Island.

The new sample was retrieved from the Newfoundland Margin in the Atlantic Ocean, by the ocean drilling ship JOIDES Resolution.

John Parkes, a geobiologist at the University of Cardiff, UK, and his colleagues, extracted the microbes from the inner core of the sediment samples, where they were unlikely to have been contaminated with external seawater.

They found simple organisms known as prokaryotes in every sample.

Prokaryotes are organisms that often have just one cell. Their peculiarity is that, unlike any other form of life, their DNA is not neatly packed into a nucleus.

About 60% of the cells Parkes and his team found were alive. They are related to organisms found in deep-sea hydrothermal vents

so that doubles your depth

so now it is beyond the oceans depth by 5-7 kilometers

and the ocean vent species are simply related cousins as below them by a dozen miles are family member farting up a storm of methane
 
Hi There,
I think that's an awsome idea!! I all for changes that benefit the environment. However, Not trying to be persimistic - What would the expense be though? For my learning purposes what are the disadvantages of this method?
Cheers,
Jules

well hello Jules

like the clown said, natural H is all over the place in water, hence H2o, and can be separated by energy or simply to store the energy upon the H atom.

and then H recombined with O makes a real hot reaction, just like gasoline does but with 2 times the energy released and then the remnant is water and that heat/pressure is used for work to turn over the motor.

and sunlight can be used to separate that H from water.

that wheel does turn but in stead of a few wanting to walk it through, they argue because someone on the news said 'it's too hard'

heck mankind made it in space and used hydrogen fuel to get there; wonder why most cannot comprehend, its the best model but that industry does not like it because then anyone could be making their own fuel and centralized business just can't have that
 
So, it's simply using inefficient solar cells to make hydrogen and supercool it to a liquid for storage. Any reasonable person can imagine that the scale at which this is done will never equal the ease and low cost with which oil is now collected. When the oil collapse happens, we will most likely not have the money or the means to make the heavy investments in this technology in time to replace oil. It will be expensive when we can least afford it, and it will be impractical in the extreme. Collective actions will become the norm in the future, replacing the cult of the individual that now clouds our thinking on many issues. Joe six-pack ain't gonna build hisself a home liquid hydrogen conversion plant, who do you think you're fooling?
 
So, it's simply using inefficient solar cells to make hydrogen and supercool it to a liquid for storage. Any reasonable person can imagine that the scale at which this is done will never equal the ease and low cost with which oil is now collected. When the oil collapse happens, we will most likely not have the money or the means to make the heavy investments in this technology in time to replace oil. It will be expensive when we can least afford it, and it will be impractical in the extreme. Collective actions will become the norm in the future, replacing the cult of the individual that now clouds our thinking on many issues. Joe six-pack ain't gonna build hisself a home liquid hydrogen conversion plant, who do you think you're fooling?

the clown about to insert the ol'foot in mouth again

as what will H fuel cell cars be using?


http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/storage/hydrogen_storage.html

Gaseous and Liquid Hydrogen Storage
Today's state-of-the-art for hydrogen storage includes 5000- and 10,000-psi compressed gas tanks and cryogenic liquid hydrogen tanks for on-board hydrogen storage.

Compressed Hydrogen Gas Tanks



The energy density of gaseous hydrogen can be improved by storing hydrogen at higher pressures. This requires material and design improvements in order to ensure tank integrity. Advances in compression technologies are also required to improve efficiencies and reduce the cost of producing high-pressure hydrogen.

Carbon fiber-reinforced 5000-psi and 10,000-psi compressed hydrogen gas tanks are under development by Quantum Technologies and others. Such tanks are already in use in prototype hydrogen-powered vehicles. The inner liner of the tank is a high molecular weight polymer that serves as a hydrogen gas permeation barrier. A carbon fiber-epoxy resin composite shell is placed over the liner and constitutes the gas pressure load-bearing component of the tank. Finally, an outer shell is placed on the tank for impact and damage resistance. The pressure regulator for the 10,000-psi tank is located in the interior of the tank. There is also an in-tank gas temperature sensor to monitor the tank temperature during the gas filling process when heating of the tank occurs.

The driving range of fuel cell vehicles with compressed hydrogen tanks depends, of course, on vehicle type, design and the amount and pressure of stored hydrogen. By increasing the amount and pressure of hydrogen, a greater driving range can be achieved but at the expense of cost and valuable space within the vehicle. Volumetric capacity, high pressure and cost are thus key challenges for compressed hydrogen tanks. Refueling times, compression energy penalties and heat management requirements during compression also need to be considered as the mass and pressure of on-board hydrogen are increased.

Issues with compressed hydrogen gas tanks revolve around high pressure, weight, volume, conformability and cost. The cost of high-pressure compressed gas tanks is essentially dictated by the cost of the carbon fiber that must be used for light-weight structural reinforcement. Efforts are underway to identify lower-cost carbon fiber that can meet the required high pressure and safety specifications for hydrogen gas tanks. However, lower-cost carbon fibers must still be capable of meeting tank thickness constraints in order to help meet volumetric capacity targets. Thus lowering cost without compromising weight and volume is a key challenge.

Two approaches are being pursued to increase the gravimetric and volumetric storage capacities of compressed gas tanks from their current levels. The first approach involves cryo-compressed tanks. This is based on the fact that, at fixed pressure and volume, gas tank volumetric capacity increases as the tank temperature decreases. Thus, by cooling a tank from room temperature to liquid nitrogen temperature (77°K), its volumetric capacity will increase by a factor of four, although system volumetric capacity will be less than this due to the increased volume required for the cooling system.

The second approach involves the development of conformable tanks. Present liquid gasoline tanks in vehicles are highly conformable in order to take maximum advantage of available vehicle space. Concepts for conformable tank structures are based on the location of structural supporting walls. Internal cellular-type load bearing structures may also be a possibility for greater degrees of conformability.

Compressed hydrogen tanks [5000 psi (~35 MPa) and 10,000 psi (~70 MPa)] have been certified worldwide according to ISO 11439 (Europe), NGV-2 (U.S.), and Reijikijun Betten (Iceland) standards and approved by TUV (Germany) and The High-Pressure Gas Safety Institute of Japan (KHK). Tanks have been demonstrated in several prototype fuel cell vehicles and are commercially available. Composite, 10,000-psi tanks have demonstrated a 2.35 safety factor (23,500 psi burst pressure) as required by the European Integrated Hydrogen Project specifications. Learn more about high-pressure hydrogen tank testing.

Liquid Hydrogen Tanks
The energy density of hydrogen can be improved by storing hydrogen in a liquid state. However, the issues with LH2 tanks are hydrogen boil-off, the energy required for hydrogen liquefaction, volume, weight, and tank cost. The energy requirement for hydrogen liquefaction is high; typically 30% of the heating value of hydrogen is required for liquefaction. New approaches that can lower these energy requirements and thus the cost of liquefaction are needed. Hydrogen boil-off must be minimized or eliminated for cost, efficiency and vehicle range considerations, as well as for safety considerations when vehicles are parked in confined spaces. Insulation is required for LH2 tanks and this reduces system gravimetric and volumetric capacity.


Liquid hydrogen (LH2) tanks can store more hydrogen in a given volume than compressed gas tanks. The volumetric capacity of liquid hydrogen is 0.070 kg/L, compared to 0.030 kg/L for 10,000 psi gas tanks.

Liquid tanks are being demonstrated in hydrogen-powered vehicles and a hybrid tank concept combining both high-pressure gaseous and cryogenic storage is being studied. These hybrid (cryo-compressed tanks) insulated pressure vessels are lighter than hydrides and more compact than ambient-temperature, high pressure vessels. Because the temperatures required are not as low as for liquid hydrogen, there is less of an energy penalty for liquefaction and less evaporative losses than for liquid hydrogen tanks.

Learn about DOE's Compressed/Liquid Hydrogen Tanks R&D.

maybe if you read and assisted in doing real homework

people like Jules can develop beyond your clown mind capacity


jules, i will not fib just to say something....

there are a few who care more for tomorrow than our own complacency


so basically, ask anything you like and let's see if maybe 'the few' can offer positive direction to your quest...
 
I never said it's not possible to build one if you have millions of dollars, but it would be easier to use a copper wire to sent the electricity directly to an electric motor. Electric bullet trains make much more sense, and are less costly, and they are widely available now.

500series.jpg


OOO, so futuristic! Sadly, the cult of the automobile in the US means we are stuck with a grand misinvestment, and too much pride to change.
 
I never said it's not possible to build one if you have millions of dollars, but it would be easier to use a copper wire to sent the electricity directly to an electric motor. Electric bullet trains make much more sense, and are less costly, and they are widely available now.
because you see on TV, you like..

monkey see, monkey like


OOO, so futuristic! Sadly, the cult of the automobile in the US means we are stuck with a grand misinvestment, and too much pride to change.
that is what i observe with the ignorance of today's complacent practitioners.


so now you suggest the globe should all be on trains and centralized transportation to boot.....?

when what i suggest could be in the works right now!

do you not realize, most of the garage tinkerers where the youngsters building a mini bike and hot rods and when the smog junk came in, that art went away as a part of society. Tinkering is what opens the eyes of young folk to learn and contribute to society. Give them a change to be better than you.

so right now, a solar panel, a chamber and a simple board, expansion value and a tank and each person could be cooking their own hydrogen. Even while you sitting on a forum making a fool of yourself, that tank is constantly storing energy.

and as for burning it; convert to stainless all the exhaust, values and sleeves to an ICE (how about chevy 454)....

remove all the smog junk and use a natural gas intake (pressure diafram) and jets and soon you could be blowing flames out the side pipe, all the while spitting water at you go (ooops, keep that, for the next fuel cycle)

this is what you continuously fail to do...... use your head!

there is no rocket science to simply going through the homewrk to see, once the infrastructure is in, then no more hook up to the grid.....


the knowledge will allow freedom
 
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