The end result is to make it so that it's not economically feasible to invest and take care of yourself. You might as well just do nothing and let the government take care of yourself.
We can worry about that planet if we ever find it.This isn't good public policy except on Sciforums where the prevailing argument is that everyone is poor, can't save or invest and therefore we need to tax those who did invest which is similar to arguing that it makes sense to kill the goose that laid the gold
We can worry about that planet if we ever find it.
Meanwhile, the dramatic restructuring of the US tax system and corporate regulation under Reagan (killing the New Deal goose that laid the golden eggs) has resulted in a forty year economic stagnation and loss of prosperity among the lower 1/2 - 2/3 of the US economy. The sudden imposition of rapidly inflating housing, medical, and educational costs on that fraction - which partly due to its unexpected (by the respectable majority) nature and onset turned into debt - settled the hash, and we are now facing the predicted economic progression toward the basic setup enjoyed by Paraguay and similar (Gore Vidal's assessment, decades ago).
In my neighborhood billboard ads for house loans no money down, an increasing number of one-eyed cars, and a large population of young folks who bought the for-profit "competitive" "we train you for a job" college pitch and are now piling up debt and moving in with their parents (this is Republican country - Michelle Bachmann's power center, Trump voters dominant, a housing stock full of mobile and manufactured houses with wood stoves and not a single large tree left on their 5 acre lots.).
As far as I can recall, everything you have ever posted on this forum in reply to me that appeared after the word "obviously" has been factual error. Everything.Obviously the Republicans don't agree with you and you post that you don't like the Democrats either and that they are too conservative. How can you not agree with the Democrats or the Republicans and yet you feel that most people agree with you?
It's very easy to argue that this isn't what most people want. All you have to do is ask them what they want, carefully and without biasing their answer, and argue that what they tell you they want does resemble or reflect what they want. The people in my political category have been doing that for a long time - the record of the results has been consistent for more than forty years now.I agree that the Republicans don't have much to offer and the Democrats aren't particularly innovative lately but it's hard to argue that this isn't what most people want because this is what most people keep voting for.
You are disagreeing with your own fantasy world. I don't live in it. The world I describe is the one measured and recorded by those interested in physical reality. This one: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...or-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/I do, of course, disagree with the degree with which you've described most people as helpless victims too stupid to stay out of debt and out of mama's basem
So the free market capitalist argues that private property is just a state of mind.Most more common level "wealth" is just a state of mind
As far as I can recall, everything you have ever posted on this forum in reply to me that appeared after the word "obviously" has been factual error. Everything.
It's very easy to argue that this isn't what most people want. All you have to do is ask them what they want, carefully and without biasing their answer, and argue that what they tell you they want does resemble or reflect what they want. The people in my political category have been doing that for a long time - the record of the results has been consistent for more than forty years now.
Most Americans want universal basic health care at First World standards for half the cost of the current rationed and incomplete Second World standard the US currently provides, for example. Most Americans who found out about Paul Wellstone's health insurance plan preferred it to every other setup proposed for the US, and that preference hasn't changed much since. Most Americans wanted the US to avoid launching full scale war on Iraq unless Iraq was an immediate and serious military or terrorist threat to the US.
As far as what they vote for - most people who voted voted for Hilary Clinton to be President in 2016, most people who voted voted for Al Gore to be President in 2000, most people who voted recently (2018, 2020) in Wisconsin voted for Democrats to represent them in the State legislature, and so forth.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...the-day-wisconsin-gerrymandering-was-awesome/
And even that falls far short of indicating the scale of the difference between what US governments at all scales have been and done and what most citizens have wanted them to be and do since 1980.
You are disagreeing with your own fantasy world. I don't live in it. The world I describe is the one measured and recorded by those interested in physical reality. This one: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...or-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/
If you insist on describing those people as helpless and stupid that's your description, not mine.
So the free market capitalist argues that private property is just a state of mind.
That ought to make raising taxes on the wealthy less of a battle - we can easily avoid levying taxes on a state of mind.
If I didn't know better, I'd be encouraged by the admission that there's a problem.Raising taxes on the wealthy, is that all you have in your basket of solutions?
Changing the subject is not going to bail you out. This business about wealth being a state of mind is too fat a target.Whatever problems you see in life as holding you back, you can always look around and see someone else facing those same problems that has made better decisions and that has not let it hold them back.
So why are you insisting on blaming people who aren't even at fault?It's much better to deal with problems rather than to blame someone else.
The number of American wingnuts who apparently have no idea who has been governing their country, or what they've been up to for the past forty years, is kind of startling.Your approach isn't helping anyone or you wouldn't be complaining about the same things for 40 years.
Lots of you guys have been looking hard for some ways to bury the Republican Crash of 2008 - that's a pretty good one. Congratulations.The accumulation of assets is a state of mind.
Nope.Is focusing on 2008 kind of like still talking about Bengasi?
Silly.If someone doesn't have as much money as they would like, yes, it is largely their fault.
. It's like watching someone try to pin the tail on the donkey when they have wandered into the next room - where there is no donkey, and the folks are trying to play Charades.I'm guessing (yes, I know, I'm always wrong) that you aren't in the group that you are always talking about. You have a "woman of the house" and therefore a house. It has appreciated, right? You have assets.
I couldn't, these days, do what I did. The US economy has been too badly damaged, along with its government as a country.If you can do it, so can others.
So taxing it is no problem. Good to know.Wealth isn't a right. It's not guaranteed.
You keep saying that "taxing it is not problem" even though that's not something to be inferring from my comments.Nope.
Clinton's Benghazi was essentially fictional, and without consequence, and quite small. The city itself is not fictional, but not much more significant.
We are still living in the aftermath or debris of the Crash of 2008 - a large event with global consequences, orders of magnitude more significant for the world economy than the entire history of the city of Benghazi and every event in it for the past thousand years - focusing on its current effects is necessary for understanding what happened yesterday.
Silly.
The Crash of 2008 was not the fault of its victims - not even the white ones.
. It's like watching someone try to pin the tail on the donkey when they have wandered into the next room - where there is no donkey, and the folks are trying to play Charades.
But even allowing for comedy - what "group" am I "always talking about"?
I couldn't, these days, do what I did. The US economy has been too badly damaged, along with its government as a country.
So taxing it is no problem. Good to know.
I inferred it easily and directly from your comments.You keep saying that "taxing it is not problem" even though that's not something to be inferring from my comments.
You will never learn to not post like that. It's apparently a form of OCD.Why could you not do now what you did then...2008? That's ridiculous.
I inferred it easily and directly from your comments.
You will never learn to not post like that. It's apparently a form of OCD.
I did recommend flipping a coin - you could have been posting irrelevancies from ignorance and still been correct in your assertions or assumptions as much as half the time, given clear assertions, instead of none of it. From the hole you have dug by now (not one correct guess, out of hundreds) you would have to post for weeks without error to get to 50%.
Meanwhile, there are of course plenty of things directly bearing on financial prosperity many white people could still do in 2008 they mostly or particularly can't do twenty more years of Reaganomics later. What you find "ridiculous" is (as so often before in your posts) simply everyday life for a plurality - even a majority - of Americans.
Prudently rent a two bedroom apartment on one median wage job in most US cities, for example. Attend night school classes at a local land grant University on the savings from that job, rather than accumulating debt. Safely take health symptoms of unknown or sudden significance to a doctor they know, and without first thoroughly researching the exact financial obligations they would incur for each of the several choices of medical care they face. Discuss their finances with a banking or investment professional who is legally obligated to advise them in their best interests rather than the advisor's own. Budget accurately and reliably for conceiving, bearing, and raising children in the near future.
And so forth.
you ever notice he likes to project his abject hatred and contempt for the poor onto others?As far as I can recall, everything you have ever posted on this forum in reply to me that appeared after the word "obviously" has been factual error. Everything.
It's very easy to argue that this isn't what most people want. All you have to do is ask them what they want, carefully and without biasing their answer, and argue that what they tell you they want does resemble or reflect what they want. The people in my political category have been doing that for a long time - the record of the results has been consistent for more than forty years now.
Most Americans want universal basic health care at First World standards for half the cost of the current rationed and incomplete Second World standard the US currently provides, for example. Most Americans who found out about Paul Wellstone's health insurance plan preferred it to every other setup proposed for the US, and that preference hasn't changed much since. Most Americans wanted the US to avoid launching full scale war on Iraq unless Iraq was an immediate and serious military or terrorist threat to the US.
As far as what they vote for - most people who voted voted for Hilary Clinton to be President in 2016, most people who voted voted for Al Gore to be President in 2000, most people who voted recently (2018, 2020) in Wisconsin voted for Democrats to represent them in the State legislature, and so forth.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...the-day-wisconsin-gerrymandering-was-awesome/
And even that falls far short of indicating the scale of the difference between what US governments at all scales have been and done and what most citizens have wanted them to be and do since 1980.
You are disagreeing with your own fantasy world. I don't live in it. The world I describe is the one measured and recorded by those interested in physical reality. This one: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...or-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/
If you insist on describing those people as helpless and stupid that's your description, not mine.
So the free market capitalist argues that private property is just a state of mind.
That ought to make raising taxes on the wealthy less of a battle - we can easily avoid levying taxes on a state of mind.
you ever notice he likes to project his abject hatred and contempt for the poor onto others?
again please explain in your delusional fantasy world how is one supposed to save money when the basic financial requirements to have basic needs met, ie no luxuries, cost more than a certain percentage of the population makes. before you continue to arrogantly lecture people perhaps you should learn something first.Is focusing on 2008 kind of like still talking about Bengasi? If you are living in your parents basement focusing on 2008 isn't helpful. Get a job, move out of the basement, quit playing video games, save some money and get on with life. Simples.
so its poor peoples fault rich assholes have suppressed wages for the last 40 years? you are like the domestic abuser who blames those you beat.If someone doesn't have as much money as they would like, yes, it is largely their fault. Wealth isn't a right. It's not guaranteed.
im talking about you, you sociopathic hobgoblin. ice doesn't hate the poor. you on the other hand clearly do. or is this your usually trolling. because quite frankly given the moral bankruptcy of your delusional argument you are a troll, an asshole, or just stupid. you don't know anything about economics or basic human decency. i bet you are the type to stiff your server because of the kitchens screwup.I've noticed that. He isn't as good natured and well-balanced as you guys. He must not be as fulfilled in his personal life and he's probably jealous of you guys too, especially your sense of humor.
Maybe you can win him over with charm and your persuasive nature? In any event, you're content in life and that's all that really matters don't you agree?
Let's just let him project although it's sad really.
I realize that you are talking about me, Einstein.im talking about you, you sociopathic hobgoblin. ice doesn't hate the poor. you on the other hand clearly do. or is this your usually trolling. because quite frankly given the moral bankruptcy of your delusional argument you are a troll, an asshole, or just stupid. you don't know anything about economics or basic human decency. i bet you are the type to stiff your server because of the kitchens screwup.
That is still possible, at least for a few more years.How about prudently renting a two bedroom apartment based on two people earning the median wage?
So?You don't need to be advised by a banking or investment profession if you can read and learn.
The inaccuracy and persistence of your guesswork raise the only serious issues raised by your posts - say:You should probably spend less time worrying about how many of my guesses are accurate and more time actually addressing the issues raised.
If it were just you individually one could write it off as a symptom, but it's pretty much all of you guys - the pattern is dominant.You managed to get through 2008. So have most other people.
Yet, none of those things have affected you either. If you are capable of concern for others, what makes you think that those having a little more money than you aren't just as concerned?That is still possible, at least for a few more years.
It's poverty, compared with pre-Reagan America, but as you keep pointing out: in the US wealth is not guaranteed - not even if paid for. The days of being able to rely on a decent job and disciplined life as the support of a nuclear family are long gone. Even the minimal personal wealth of a modern industrial society - like access to First World medical care in the cities and crowds industry requires - is something most Americans need decades to acquire and good luck to maintain (2/3 of all Americans with health insurance - not the uninsured, the insured, the prudent and employed and comparatively prosperous - are down to zero net worth within two years of being diagnosed with cancer other than outpatient surgically removable skin cancer. Apparently - given current prevalences and related data - about a third of all Americans will be diagnosed with such cancer - so more than 20% of those Americans who hold good jobs and pay their bills and so forth, prosperous and prudent Americans, will die broke, with negative net worth, from that factor alone).
So?
The inaccuracy and persistence of your guesswork raise the only serious issues raised by your posts - say:
1) Why you guys spend so much time doing that. Is there some kind of overall plan here? Is something grand and significant going to happen if you manage to guess my line of work, domestic circumstances, economic class, etc (one can't help but wonder if a correct guess that was forced on you by a year-long process of elimination via bad guesses would have the benefits you expect anyway)
2) Why even the Americans among you cannot make better guesses.
You're getting beat by coin flips, in the face of hundreds of posts from me full of clues. It's as if your reason has somehow been put in the service of blocking comprehension, deflecting information, hiding the world from you and vice versa.
That draws my attention. That pattern is far more interesting than the latest fortune cookie goof from a misread paragraph in an Introduction to Economics textbook, or the currently on-round talking point from the American Enterprise's media feed and framing.
An explanation might even account for the weirdly meaningless posts, the ones that seem to have been posted in the wrong thread or even the wrong forum, like this:
If it were just you individually one could write it off as a symptom, but it's pretty much all of you guys - the pattern is dominant.
Let's ignore the fish barrel stuff, the "getting through 2008" target fattening (like the rapid and unprecedented US rise in what the stats followers label "deaths of despair" following the Crash - Reaganomics having set up the first generation of US citizens who apparently will not on average live longer than their parents. Or the recent and vaguely described decline in average US male adult height - which may have reversed even more recently under the statistical influence of the increased death rate and its demographic focus)
See, it's odd but interesting: wealthy upper class Americans, as a group, piled up a lot more transferred wealth via the Republican Party's invasion of Iraq in 2003, the Republican Party's manner of rebuilding after Katrina in 2005, and the Second Republican Economic Crash of 2008. For the wealthy in America there was no Crash, no death or murder in foreign war, no salvaging alligator-feasted corpses of drowned relatives after the levee broke. And they were for the most part not even prosecuted, let alone jailed and made liable for reparations. Nor were their profits from those disasters they enabled and promoted confiscated from them and returned to their victims by a government defending its citizenry. Angelo Mozila never spent a day in prison, and by all appearances will die a free and very wealthy man. So an overall description of the US economy from 2000 into 2020 would be that of a successful robbery/swindle, a long con with muscle behind it and the cops on the take - like a photo negative of the capers featured in the plots of Ocean's Eleven, The Sting, etc - in which something like a trillion dollars of wealth changed hands from poor to rich under cryptic and coercive circumstances that if made public and proved in court would be classified as felony crimes.
Which is quite a benefit to be obtained via a "state of mind".
OCD.Yet, none of those things have affected you either.
I haven't been posting in whatever thread that came from.If you are capable of concern for others, what makes you think that those having a little more money than you aren't just as concerned?