What is up with the moderator vendetta against Gustav?

[RealityCheck]

From this site's rules:



I have contacted the owners of this site directly and advised them that a member of this site has advised that she has somehow managed to bypass this site's secure software and is claiming that she can now block moderator posts. This site's software does not allow any member to block or ignore moderators. I am sure they will be interested in her claims and see if she is lying or not and to see if she has somehow managed to breach this site's secure software to allow her to do what the software specifically does not allow members to do.

I would suggest all members refrain from following suit because if you are moderated and because you have blocked or ignored all moderator posts and you ignore or bypass a moderated post and repost something that has been deleted, or it leads you to interfere with this site's moderation, you will be banned from this site. Without fail.

The above is virtually drips with ego, elitism, privilege mongering/protecting, hypocrisy, and plain double-speak and arrogant presumption. And yes, "pathetic" about rounds off the list of self-serving claptrap rationalizations and delusions of power which assumes that all the admin/mods 'agree with Bells" on this issue and its solutions.

Do us a favour, mate, if you can't at least pretend to objectivity and fairness, just say nothing, else you only further prove the case for the genuinely aggrieved on this matter.

Do better, as an alleged 'mod' should do. Cheers all!

Thanks.

 

[RealityCheck]

Duplicate removed. RC.

 

[Kittamaru]

*snip*!

Oh, I'm not going to lie - I figured using the exact same name would result in an immediate amount of animosity that would never be overcome. As I said - if I wanted to go "spai", I would have done so and they would be none the wiser.

Oh, so you mean neither you nor Bells actually read her post. I see.



So...yeah.

Mhm... and that means what, exactly? Oh, I'll tell you what it means - she is doing something non-standard that is having some effect on how her computer and the server interact. What effect is that? We don't know. Is it bypassing some security feature? We don't know. Is it spreading some variant of the Form A virus on the forums an infecting everyone's machine with the intent of wiping our BCD's and system32 folders? We don't know.

IF we DID know it was having some inherent dangerous effect on the forum... she wouldn't be here to talk about it. Likely, the forum would be down while the owners investigated whether or not THEIR HARDWARE was compromised.

Balerion, do you understand the implications of her statement to their fullest? It could be a simple script in greasemonkey that looks at the field "posted by" and filters out posts by certain people on a blacklist... it could be some hook that actually circumvents the software on the forum and allows her to block people she isn't intended to be able to block. It could be she put masking tape on her monitor wherever a moderators name shows up. The problem is we don't know what she did... if we did nothing and she did something malicious (which wouldn't be far fetched given that she just stated she has the capacity an she obviously has motive) that infected the membership, it would be on us for not reporting it. If we report it and there's no problem... well, then there's no problem.

Now, kindly crawl out of our assholes and stop poking your nose into things you don't seem to understand. Paranoia, perhaps... but such is the world we live in, where sidebar advertisements on websites can have a picture that can infect your computer just by showing on screen (yes, such things are possible... let me tell you, my systems and network security classes were almost terrifying when you look at just how easy infecting another system actually is)

 

[RealityCheck]

Oh, I'm not going to lie - I figured using the exact same name would result in an immediate amount of animosity that would never be overcome. As I said - if I wanted to go "spai", I would have done so.

And again ironically, there you have unwittingly put your finger right on the problem HERE in the past.

For example, that is PRECISELY what happened to my Mars Rover experiment!.....even without any previous baggage immediately attached to Mars Rover. But that didn't stop the IMMEDIATE troll-mod combo tactic of bait, personalize, insult and spoil/sabotage.

It also further justifies my reason proffered to you and the other mods regarding my Mars Rover temporary personna (but which got me banned/infraction....which ban/infraction you must surely now agree should be REVERSED, hey...for if the same justification is good for the goose it's also good for the gander, yes?)


At least something good HAS come out of your foray under another name, ie, you can NOW see that unwarranted personal/troll-mod animosity IS a problem sometimes, even here, even to 'strangers'.


That took guts to come clean, mate. Kudos! My respect for you has just increased by a significant amount. Cheers and more good luck and good thinking to you and everyone in future!

G'night all!

PS: Regarding all that about seagypsy's browser interaction with the site system: If the suystem is so vulnerable from such third-party setups, then perhaps we all owe a GREAT THANKS to seagypsy for telling us what she has done with her browser! Otherwise, if the 'threat' is so potentially simple and ubiquitous in its nature, then it's a GOOD THING she gave us the "heads up", yes?

Thank her instead of demonizing her based on some nebulous threat which she may have been innocent of when it is her browser she modified, not our site system/interactions per se. Less antagonism/fear and more facts and benefit of doubt wouldn't go astray on this either. Yes? G'night!

 

[Balerion]

Mhm... and that means what, exactly? Oh, I'll tell you what it means - she is doing something non-standard that is having some effect on how her computer and the server interact. What effect is that? We don't know. Is it bypassing some security feature? We don't know. Is it spreading some variant of the Form A virus on the forums an infecting everyone's machine with the intent of wiping our BCD's and system32 folders? We don't know.

IF we DID know it was having some inherent dangerous effect on the forum... she wouldn't be here to talk about it. Likely, the forum would be down while the owners investigated whether or not THEIR HARDWARE was compromised.

Balerion, do you understand the implications of her statement to their fullest? It could be a simple script in greasemonkey that looks at the field "posted by" and filters out posts by certain people on a blacklist... it could be some hook that actually circumvents the software on the forum and allows her to block people she isn't intended to be able to block. It could be she put masking tape on her monitor wherever a moderators name shows up. The problem is we don't know what she did... if we did nothing and she did something malicious (which wouldn't be far fetched given that she just stated she has the capacity an she obviously has motive) that infected the membership, it would be on us for not reporting it. If we report it and there's no problem... well, then there's no problem.

Now, kindly crawl out of our assholes and stop poking your nose into things you don't seem to understand. Paranoia, perhaps... but such is the world we live in, where sidebar advertisements on websites can have a picture that can infect your computer just by showing on screen (yes, such things are possible... let me tell you, my systems and network security classes were almost terrifying when you look at just how easy infecting another system actually is)

Clearly you haven't the first clue as to what you're talking about. She altered her browser, not the website.

Maybe you should leave the paranoia to mods who actually understand this stuff? Just a thought.

 

[billvon]

Because the most important thing is that Sciforums should be just like those "other forums."

Nope. The important thing is that it will be like the owner wants it to be. If you don't like it, exercise your right to leave - or even to set up your own forum.

 

[Bells]

Oh, so you mean neither you nor Bells actually read her post. I see.



So...yeah.

With the current issues we are having with this site at the moment, it pays to be prudent. Was also advising them of the recent bans of members and seeking advice on how to proceed in regards to what has happened and also because a member has advised that she plans to block all mod posts, which could lead to possible issues in the future. But hey, better to just accuse because it fits in with the `they are out to get us` routine that we have going here. Since James is currently away, I thought it best to seek advice from more senior people on this site.

 

[billvon]

Hhm... and that means what, exactly? Oh, I'll tell you what it means - she is doing something non-standard that is having some effect on how her computer and the server interact. What effect is that? We don't know. Is it bypassing some security feature? We don't know. Is it spreading some variant of the Form A virus on the forums an infecting everyone's machine with the intent of wiping our BCD's and system32 folders? We don't know.

OK. Quick explanation:

When your browser requests a web page, your server sends out the page that is requested in a format called HTML. It's a markup language that says "print the heading SciForums.com in bold, then put a blue line, then put the logo, then print the name of the poster, then print his post, then print the name of the next poster" etc. Your browser uses that information to recreate the web page. Most browsers operate in a very similar manner so all web pages look similar on different browsers (not identical, but similar.) Some ignore some features if they don't support them.

What she is doing is ignoring other parts of the page. She's adding some code that says "if name=JoeSmith then do not print his post." (More to it than that but that's the basic idea.) Unless you feel like you should be able to force people to configure their browsers the way you want there's really nothing you can do about it.

Balerion, do you understand the implications of her statement to their fullest? It could be a simple script in greasemonkey that looks at the field "posted by" and filters out posts by certain people on a blacklist... it could be some hook that actually circumvents the software on the forum and allows her to block people she isn't intended to be able to block. It could be she put masking tape on her monitor wherever a moderators name shows up. The problem is we don't know what she did...

People who are familiar with HTML are. It's a pretty common thing to do.

 

[Kittamaru]

Clearly you haven't the first clue as to what you're talking about. She altered her browser, not the website.

Maybe you should leave the paranoia to mods who actually understand this stuff? Just a thought.

Exactly why I'm telling you to quit while you're behind... you spend a few years in IT at various locations seeing what people with malicious intentions can do, then we'll talk. Till then, you're just a pair of gums flapping in the breeze.

 

[Balerion]

With the current issues we are having with this site at the moment, it pays to be prudent. Was also advising them of the recent bans of members and seeking advice on how to proceed in regards to what has happened and also because a member has advised that she plans to block all mod posts, which could lead to possible issues in the future. But hey, better to just accuse because it fits in with the `they are out to get us` routine that we have going here. Since James is currently away, I thought it best to seek advice from more senior people on this site.

Right, because your whiny "Block me and you'll get banned" post wasn't childish or anything.

Exactly why I'm telling you to quit while you're behind... you spend a few years in IT at various locations seeing what people with malicious intentions can do, then we'll talk. Till then, you're just a pair of gums flapping in the breeze.

By all means, explain to us how someone can mod their browser and affect someone's server.

 

[Enmos]

By all means, explain to us how someone can mod their browser and affect someone's server.

Perhaps Bells just isn't familiar with stuff like that.
Seagypsy certainly isn't. She thinks the website blocks the posts because she modified her browser. And she, supposedly, is a web developer....

 

[seagypsy]

Not sure how it's petty... if she altered her browser alone then fine - if she is attempting to alter information coming to/from the forums and the server it is hosted on... well, suffice it to say that is something the owners NEED to know about. That is one hell of a security hole.

Kittamaru, being able to alter one's own browser is one of the most elementary skills of any web developer. creating custom style sheets and custom java script and then having the page recreated on my browser according to my own specifications is something any first semester IT student should be able to do. It requires no hacking of the company software. I only had to hack my own browser.

The problems I was having before were reported by other users as well so it certainly had nothing to do with my modifications. Though at first I did suspect it. My main issue now is slow loading on my browser. And that is most certainly caused by my modifications, but sooo worth it.

 

[seagypsy]

Exactly why I'm telling you to quit while you're behind... you spend a few years in IT at various locations seeing what people with malicious intentions can do, then we'll talk. Till then, you're just a pair of gums flapping in the breeze.

I have malicious intentions now? Believe me if I did the site would already be down. Not by my doing, because I don't know the first thing about hacking into a server or writing a virus, but I know shitheads that do and woudl do it just for fun if I even mentioned it in their airspace. I don't have any respect for hackers of that mentality. I have no desire to shut down the site. What would that benefit me? Oh that's right I'd go to jail over an argument with an internet personality. Boy that's how I wanna go down. Sheesh. No one here is worth jail time. I have even had a couple of people ask me to write the custom css and custom javascript files and show them how to block posts they don't want to see as well. But I have declined to share. First I am a web developer but I am not a seasoned one. I am certified not yet degreed. While I am certain that my programs have no interaction with your servers, I don't necessarily know to what extent it is affecting my own system. I am having problems on my system as a result. and I do not want to be responsible for any destruction that may happen to other people's computers as a result of my own weak programming skills.

Balerion, their concerns are reasonable given their positions, but they are giving me WAY too much credit. I am a certified web developer. Not quite degreed. They didn't know this though. So I will cut them slack there. I am not a threat to them.lol but it is quite funny watching them scurry in a panic lol

Enmos, you are so cute sometimes lol. Using custom css and javascript is something most browsers are designed to accept. If you know how to write javascript and a bit of java you can recreate a webpage to look anyway you like. And it doesn't have to do anything to the original server. This really is first semester IT stuff. I learned it in my beginning web development course. Of course the java and javascript details have come more recently but still. One of our first assignments in designing style sheets was to create style sheets to make all web sites look like our favorite one. When I have a headache I turn on the craigslist style sheet and make all websites look like craigslist.

I have never been to that greasemonkey site and didn't even know about it. I learned a long time ago not to ever use copy paste code from unknown sources. I don't know how many of my computers have been ruined by my kids tweeking their myspace pages using copy paste bling code or something that screwed us up. I block all ads using ad blocker and using the same type of code that the ad blockers use with a bit of modifications I created my own plug in for my browser. Your rules have no jurisdiction over the way my own personal browser behaves.

 

[Bells]

Right, because your whiny "Block me and you'll get banned" post wasn't childish or anything.

There is a difference between that and what I clearly said, which was if you block a moderator, and she has clearly said she plans to block all mods, then it could lead to a situation where she or others who may follow suit, interfering with moderation. But hey that is her choice. It will certainly make our lives easier if it means we can ignore her spamming us with reports, some from before she even joined this site. It will also mean that I will never have to endure another abusive and harassing pm from her again, so for me this is win win.

Now I understand that you want to think that I am evil and out to get you all because I am some evil monster hell bent on forum domination, but look at what she is now saying, about how she could get people to do it if she wanted to, blah blah. While it is probably all bullshit, the mere possibility to this site`s security needs to be checked, especially with the spammer problem we are having. While I do not think she is stupid enough or even has the knowhow to do something like that, and she appears to enjoy thinking she has created a stir, I am not sure how amusing this sites owners will find her mouthing off about how she could bring this site down if she wanted to.

 

[wynn]

Nope. The important thing is that it will be like the owner wants it to be.

In that case, warnings, infractions and bannings need to contain a reference to this - that the site will be "like the owner wants it to be."


As things stand, warnings, infractions and bannings often do not contain a reference to the owner's desires.

Instead, moderators apparently assume themselves to be moral and intellectual authorities who pass judgment on posters, and posters are supposed to accept it.


But then again, perhaps the site owner wishes that - these particular - moderators be considered moral and intellectual authorities.

If you don't like it, exercise your right to leave - or even to set up your own forum.

We both know what you'd really like.

 

[RealityCheck]

Nope. The important thing is that it will be like the owner wants it to be. If you don't like it, exercise your right to leave - or even to set up your own forum.

Mate, this is purportedly a science discussion site, not a blog. Any owner/admin/mod 'desires' must take into account requirements of objectivity and fair play as a minimum standard, else the site will not be 'as advertised'. People come to this site to join a science discussion forum, not a blog or some shonky misleading internet con site or a mod/troll playground and abuser's paradise. Science and humanity and fair play, else what's the point? Does the owner/admin just want to follow the 'race to the bottom' along with many other sites, or does the owner/admin have pride and integrity and puts genuine members before trolls and bad moderation, that is the question admin/owners have to answer honestly and make known to all in open forum their answer.

 

[RealityCheck]

With the current issues we are having with this site at the moment, it pays to be prudent. Was also advising them of the recent bans of members and seeking advice on how to proceed in regards to what has happened and also because a member has advised that she plans to block all mod posts, which could lead to possible issues in the future. But hey, better to just accuse because it fits in with the `they are out to get us` routine that we have going here. Since James is currently away, I thought it best to seek advice from more senior people on this site.

If it comes to that, anyone who has been pissed off and banned in the past is even more a threat than someone like seagypsy who is still here and openly dicusses what she has done to her own browser. And also, anyone can and many do modify their browsers for reasons of their OWN SECURITY and PRIVACY...THAT is what being PRUDENT on the net is all about. And if our site is that vulnerable to other people's OWN browser modifications, how can 'future problems with blocking mods posts' be any worse than what is going on already with the mod/troll antics and attitudes and problems which have precipitated her wanting to block them? Treat the cause, and the symptoms will clear up naturally, and no one will have to go to such lengths to get you to actually face the problem from YOUR end as a gesture of goodwill that you even understand what is going on that is causing this conversation in the first place.

 

[RealityCheck]

Exactly why I'm telling you to quit while you're behind... you spend a few years in IT at various locations seeing what people with malicious intentions can do, then we'll talk. Till then, you're just a pair of gums flapping in the breeze.

When a mod says things like "quit while you're behind", it comes across as childish to the forum at large. Can you see that?

And the point you miss is that there must be dozens of people pissed off and banned in the past who if they want to will do you more serious damage because they have nothing to lose (they are banned already). So you whining and demonizing seagypsy or any current member for reacting to mod-troll idiocy and malice by modifying her browser and TELLING the admin/mods in open forum that she has done so, is beyond hysteria and lame rationalizations on your part to paint her as something evil and threatening that will be the downfall of the site. Please can't you grow up and just face the problem that causes all this. Anyone who REALLY wants to damage this or any other site will do it whether they are a member or not; and you won't know anything about it until your site is hacked. I'm sure this can happen; and any schoolage kid with hacking tools shared on 'the underground' sites can do us serious damage whether they have any connection past or present with our site. Chill. Stop trying to find excuses to blame the victim's reaction, just get to correcting the real problems highlighted by my experiment and the discussions since. Then we won't be looking over our shoulders with paranoia about those we have unfairly treated and banned, hey?

 

[RealityCheck]

Perhaps Bells just isn't familiar with stuff like that.
Seagypsy certainly isn't. She thinks the website blocks the posts because she modified her browser. And she, supposedly, is a web developer....

Mate, all these distractions about who experiments with what about their own computers/browsers is just avoidance chit-chat. The mod-troll and unfairness problem that precipitates all these reactions/discussions has been identified and confirmed by experiment. Further lame rationalizations and victimizations to distract from and to avoid implementing the fairness in moderation and controlling the 'mod-protected troll' menace and poison is now become childish denial mode. Let's be done with this petty to and fro, stop trying to pick out victims and scapegoats. Just concentrate on what you CAN do properly, which is institute proper mod behaviour without pettiness, childishness, malice or double standards. Only THEN will we all be on a level playing field out in the open forum where the facts will be self evident as to who is or is not the problem troll, mod, troublemaker etc etc. Then moderation will be straightforward without all this drama necessitated by trying to control/distort the conversation by abuse of mod power and 'protected troll' tactics aimed at banning people unfairly and then blaming them and demonizing them when its the mod-troll combo that was at fault in all too many cases.

Stop your jawing on petty excuses and distractions. Get on with the reforms which must be done sooner or later if this site is to be any better than just another doublestandard mod-troll playground where members are treated as mugs and fodder for ego-tripping trolls and mods....which has brought us all to this pretty pass, as demonstrated via experiment already, yes?

Good luck and good thinking to all, and stop the sideshow bickering and get to work TOGETHER to make this site one to be proud of for scientists and humanists alike! All the best to everyone!

 

[Kittamaru]

I have malicious intentions now? Believe me if I did the site would already be down. Not by my doing, because I don't know the first thing about hacking into a server or writing a virus, but I know shitheads that do and woudl do it just for fun if I even mentioned it in their airspace. I don't have any respect for hackers of that mentality. I have no desire to shut down the site. What would that benefit me? Oh that's right I'd go to jail over an argument with an internet personality. Boy that's how I wanna go down. Sheesh. No one here is worth jail time. I have even had a couple of people ask me to write the custom css and custom javascript files and show them how to block posts they don't want to see as well. But I have declined to share. First I am a web developer but I am not a seasoned one. I am certified not yet degreed. While I am certain that my programs have no interaction with your servers, I don't necessarily know to what extent it is affecting my own system. I am having problems on my system as a result. and I do not want to be responsible for any destruction that may happen to other people's computers as a result of my own weak programming skills.

Balerion, their concerns are reasonable given their positions, but they are giving me WAY too much credit. I am a certified web developer. Not quite degreed. They didn't know this though. So I will cut them slack there. I am not a threat to them.lol but it is quite funny watching them scurry in a panic lol

Enmos, you are so cute sometimes lol. Using custom css and javascript is something most browsers are designed to accept. If you know how to write javascript and a bit of java you can recreate a webpage to look anyway you like. And it doesn't have to do anything to the original server. This really is first semester IT stuff. I learned it in my beginning web development course. Of course the java and javascript details have come more recently but still. One of our first assignments in designing style sheets was to create style sheets to make all web sites look like our favorite one. When I have a headache I turn on the craigslist style sheet and make all websites look like craigslist.

I have never been to that greasemonkey site and didn't even know about it. I learned a long time ago not to ever use copy paste code from unknown sources. I don't know how many of my computers have been ruined by my kids tweeking their myspace pages using copy paste bling code or something that screwed us up. I block all ads using ad blocker and using the same type of code that the ad blockers use with a bit of modifications I created my own plug in for my browser. Your rules have no jurisdiction over the way my own personal browser behaves.

Very well then - you have my apologies for jumping on you like that then. As I said - my network and security classes have shown me just how effectively a single person with skill can paralyze, quite literally, any server or network they please. For me, a site's security is doubly important because of an issue I had long before i started my CNIT career, in which a forum for a gaming group I was part of for an old game (Star Trek: Orion Pirates) was hacked into and resulted in the e-mail addresses, phone numbers (which we used for quicker contact), encrypted login information, and access permissions being mucked with, to the extent that the perpetrator was able to, for a short while, quite simply remove the forums from existence. Now, thankfully we were able to get back up and running from a (admittedly week old) backup, but it was disconcerting to know that the person had had access to the database side of things such that they could have potentially gotten login information.

What makes me angry at myself is the person said not two days before it happened that he was capable of doing this... we ignored him as a crackpot (the person had been a member of our clan, but was expelled because he couldn't follow a set of very simple rules that included not having suggestive or pornographic material in his avatar or signature and because he kept cussing around our younger members, much to the delight of their parents).

So, yeah, perhaps a touch of paranoia... but I've seen what can be done if such perceived threats are not taken seriously.

In any event, this is going to be my last post here - this whole fracas is simply ridiculous at this point, having become essential a giant emotive boiling pot. As it stands I've let myself become emotionally vested in this and will now remove myself from the fray. Peace ya'll.