What is Death?

[Deepuz]

esp wrote:

That can only happen when those ideas and thoughts are not summarily dismissed or ridiculed.

bbcboy wrote:

What you did was openly and seemingly prejudicially belittle the opinions and /or beliefs of a fellow user.

Banshee wrote:

What a rotten species the human race is...

When those comments made are themselves ridiculous, dismissive, belittling and downright insulting to the human race as a whole (which includes me and you all), do you not think a little facetiousness in my questions to Banshee is somewhat understandable?

 

[esp]

Amused to death.

The human race.
Could it already be run?

There are elements in every culture on earth that are rotten.

Apathy is becoming the natural state of man.

The nuclear family and it's values are breaking down.

In our enlightened time, people in the first world still exploit those in the second and third.

f there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died, surely there are more bad people alive now than have ever lived.
All those Hitlers and Rasputins.

'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.

Find one rotten apple in a bag, do you chance biting into the others?
It doesn't mean that the whole bag is rotten, but you wouldn't say that it was a bag of good apples.

 

[Deepuz]

Re: Amused to death.

Originally posted by esp
'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.

Find one rotten apple in a bag, do you chance biting into the others?
It doesn't mean that the whole bag is rotten, but you wouldn't say that it was a bag of good apples. [/B]

Wouldn't you search through the bag saving the large majority of good apples from the rot? Instead of writing the whole lot off.

 

[esp]

Perhaps.
Depends on the value of the apples.

Even so, you still wouldn't describe the whole bag as good apples.

There are many many virtuous people out in the world, this fact is not in dispute.
Society is not healthy. The human race, by action and omission, as a whole, is bad.

Maybe you shouldn't take umbrage at comments directed at the species as a whole. I'm fairly certain that Banshee was not writing with you personally in mind.

I know I personally am not rotten.
If you can say the same of yourself, is that not enough?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Origibnally posted by esp
The human race.
Could it already be run?

There are elements in every culture on earth that are rotten.

Apathy is becoming the natural state of man.

The nuclear family and it's values are breaking down.

In our enlightened time, people in the first world still exploit those in the second and third.

f there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died, surely there are more bad people alive now than have ever lived.
All those Hitlers and Rasputins.

'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.

All those things are pretty true... and make me sick about the human race. Can we learn with our mistakes? Can we just Love each other and live in peace?

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Avatar]

try to find good in yourself and humans, or you might destroy yourself with the haterid you concentate towards men (you are human I presume).

this might be considered as babbling if you like, I'm writting an essay now about moral standarts and my mind is quite tuned to the theme now.

 

[esp]

Avatar...

I search for the tiniest kernal of value in every individual who I come into contact with.
For the most part, and this is only myself, I am fortunate enough to have good people as friends and colleagues. It is rare that I meet someone who is rotten.
I am still aware, however of the way of the world and the driving forces behind many of it's denizens. They can be enough to make your blood run cold.

Still, here's to philanthropy.

I would mention that there are very very few of those here at the forums who I would put into the black-hearted category.
Well done everyone!

 

[Bowser]

Hmm... What evil comes from judging others? I think all of the apples are bruised, while a few are rotten.

 

[Hoth]

People who think they'll never die are ammusing. You've already been dead for billions of years, was it that bad? You're returning to that eventually no matter what you do, you can delay it but not stop it. (Unless you prefer to take a perspective outside time, in which all the moments you lived in exist at once along with the moments you don't exist in.)

Originally posted by esp
if there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died

Just a correction: Isn't the total number of humans who've ever lived around 85 billion? That's what I recall. Only 6 billion alive now. So, about 79 billion more have died than currently live.

 

[bbcboy]

Hoth

I'm astonished you can recall all the people who ever lived. Can you remember my granpa, see we want to go camping and can't lay hands on the mallet.

I seem to remember the more people alive than dead thing too. It may be apocryphal Or it could be alive at once. Hell I dunno who needs that kind of math in their lives?

Peaceful death to you all, but only when you're ready

 

[TruthSeeker]

The Answer for the Question:

Death is an illusion. The Universe is alive. Energy is just a form of Life (or is the opposite? The discussion is opened...). Death is just a transformation from a form of Life to another. The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.

Many Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Avatar]

Re: The Answer for the Question:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.

Mind you explaining me, why "you wouldn't exist" statement.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Avatar,
Sure I explain to you.

The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.

This means, first, that you ARE your conscience. Actually, you are a Spirit that has conscience and subconscience. Your conscience you are using now. Your subconscience is what you have from before your birthday and from your future. You have to work to have acess to your subconscient. The conscience I was talking there was the Spirit. Better call it with capital letters: "Conscience".

Here are the whole "memory" you have:

past before birth| birth.............. present | future

The parts separeted by "|" are the walls between your conscient and subconscient. To break the walls, you have to meditate. You have to concentrate in your Silence so that you can access your Inner-Self. You have to be more "aware of subtle energies".

The Conscience is eternal because you are your conscience. Imagine if it weren't eternal. You wouldn't have existed before, neither today, neither in the future. Conscience is eternal because time is an illusion. When you look to the sky, what do you see? You see stars how they were millons of years ago! Time is an illusion created by light.

Well, I hope this is enough.

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Cris]

Truthsekker,

Death is an illusion.

Ok. Drown yourself and then describe the illusion to me.

The Universe is alive.

Just like a rock is alive right?

Energy is just a form of Life (or is the opposite? The discussion is opened...).

So is it life or isn’t it? You didn’t say anything other than to indicate you have no idea what you are saying.

Death is just a transformation from a form of Life to another.

So provide an example.

The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.

A wonderful jumble of confused ideas that results in a completely meaningless statement. I’m amazed how well you can type while still in a deep dream state. And your explanation to Avatar didn’t help one jot.

Cris

 

[Bowser]

I lean towards the idea that spirit and body are incomplete without the other...like water in a bottle maybe. If such a thing as spirit does exists, my assumption is that, without a medium through which to see, it is blind.

 

[Avatar]

Not so bad written Truth Seeker, but unfortunately Cris is right. you didn't help me much. That what you said could be said by anybody and you didn't have any facts to cover your theory nor no examples. If I beleived everything I heard................can not even imagine
I don't deny tht there could be smth after we die, but until I have no facts to prove it, I will not accept it either. With only one beleif and n-thing more you can not find the truth.
Cheers!

 

[Hoth]

Originally posted by bbcboy
I'm astonished you can recall all the people who ever lived. Can you remember my granpa, see we want to go camping and can't lay hands on the mallet.

Sorry, I don't see dead people, I only recall hearing the number a while back.

Just did a search and came up with a site that says your recollection is based on old ideas: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~bjmcg/story2_peple_lived.html

That disagrees with the 85 billion estimate I heard also, and gives 109 billion as the guess.

Here's one that says 96 billion: http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~ramsey/People.html

Anyway, it's a lot more than 6 billion. So, obviously, most of us are dead.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Answers:

Bowser,

Originally posted by Bowser:
I lean towards the idea that spirit and body are incomplete without the other...like water in a bottle maybe. If such a thing as spirit does exists, my assumption is that, without a medium through which to see, it is blind.

Perfect analogy!
Good work Bowser!

Cris,

Be ashamed...

Ok. Drown yourself and then describe the illusion to me.

Look around you. What do you see? Illusion. Only illusion. The reality is that there are "trillons" of atoms all around you. There is no computer. There is no house. There is only a bunch of atoms. Death is an illusion as much as everything we see around is.

An analogy to make it easier:
When you play a computer game, what is the reality? What you see in the screen or what you type in your keyboard and the way you move your mouse? I can't mistake the sreen for the reality because I know that I'm moving the mouse and typing the keyboard. But you misunderstand it because you don't see the keyboard and the mouse. You think that what you see in your screen is the reality.

The same is Plato's allegory of the Cave. In this allegory, Plato describes a cave where everyone is chained on the wall. He says that everyone is looking to the wall and the entrance of the cave, where light come from, is right behind them. The chained people can only see the shadows. The phylosophers (in those times, phylosophers and enlightened people were the same) could see the light coming from outside. So, they never mistaken the shadows from the reality.

This is what is happening with you. Everything you see are shadows. You see illusions and imperfections because you look to the shadows instead of looking to the light.
I'm seeing the light. I see the perfection, Love. You can't because you are drowned on your illusions and your Spirit is shouting:
Listen to Him!

Just like a rock is alive right?

Sure! Everything is alive! Energy is everywhere! This doesn't means that a rock has Conscience as we have, but means that it has energy.

So is it life or isn’t it? You didn’t say anything other than to indicate you have no idea what you are saying.

Life is a form of Energy. I let the discussion opened because I dreamt that someone would say something intelligent instead of attack me...

Are you having a bad day? You seem stressed... If you are stressed, dump it at me. I don't mind. I prefer you to do this with me than with your children.

So provide an example.

There is only Energy in the Universe. Matter, for example, is a type of Energy. You can transform it in any kind of Energy. The dictionary says:

"energy [nd]
n., pl. -gies.
1. intensity or vitality of action or expression; forcefulness.
2. capacity or tendency for intense activity; vigour.
3. vigorous or intense action; exertion.
4. Physics.
a. the capacity of a body or system to do work.
b. a measure of this capacity, expressed as the work that it does in changing to some specified reference state.
It is measured in joules (SI units).
Symbol: E
See also {kinetic energy}, {potential energy}.
[ from Late Latin energia, from Greek energeia activity, from energos effective, from {en-2} + ergon work]"

As it is said, energy is the capacity to do work. You are alive, don't you? You do work, don't you? So, Life is a form of Energy and can be transformed in other kind of Energy. For example: heat. When we die, our bodies lose energy in form of heat and it becomes cold.

Life is an special kind because it allows the Conscience to be expressed into flesh.

A wonderful jumble of confused ideas that results in a completely meaningless statement. I’m amazed how well you can type while still in a deep dream state. And your explanation to Avatar didn’t help one jot.

Bowser gave an interesting explanation. Read it.

I'm tired of talking with you, Cris. You just attack me. It's not very healthy to discuss like this. If you don't grow up and enjoy a peacefull conversation, I won't listen to you anymore.

Avatar,
Thanks for being polite and don't attack me. You surely know how to live socially. You are right, I didn't explain very well. It's not easy to talk about this subject, mainly in English. Listen to Bowser, he gave a great idea. Perhaps he can explain it better to you if he know what I'm talking about. My English is not so good yet...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[wet1]

To all who consider Planet Earth just as a rock and thus therefor a dead object...You are wrong. Planet Earth is very alive and kicking.

In everything and every living being, from musquito to human is Energy. All life will return after the Earth-bound 'package' they are wrapped up in, have died.

So therefor, every human on Earth has lived before and shall be born again. Energy, beamed into an Earth-bound body, right from the Cosmos.

Which doesn't say you can do anything you want here on Earth. You have to live your life in balance with Earth, Nature and the Cosmos.

Conclusion: Live your life in good understanding with other humans and have respect for every living being, human, animal, forests and Planet Earth.

Death is nothing to be afraid of, just the end of a life-time...

 

[Hoth]

If life is just energy, and energy is the capacity to do work, then is life simply the capacity to do work? Life is motion? I suppose that's true as far as the life of the universe itself (when the universe hits absolute zero and all motion is gone, it can be considered dead), but it doesn't seem like the usual sense of the word life.