What if we removed the military?

Jez

Optimist
Registered Senior Member
I live in a country that hasn't had any conflict with any other country for hundreds of years and I often wonder what would happen if a country like ours would remove almost their entire military?

I know it's unlikly but hear me out.

If I'm not mistaking, my country's policy is to never start a war, we will only defend ourselves from possible attackers. And noone has ever attacked us, knock on wood.

We also keep such a low profile that if any country would attack us, it would cost them to much so that it wouldn't be of any profit for them.

Would any country even attack us at all? I'm sure that other countries would back us up if that happen! i.e USA which seems to be included in every conflict this world has to offer. No offence!

Can I hear some oppinons?

I would perhaps notice that it is Sweden I'm talking about.
 
The only reason some one will attack Sweden is to get those "Inga"s - beautiful blondes, Sweden is famous for. As long as the supply is plenty, no one will attck your country. :D

So in my humble opinion, dismantle your military, but keep a paramilitary force for natural disasters and other unforeseen issues. On the otherhand, there is nothing wrong with keeping a military. It teaches self discipline to young people and has some indirect benefits to the society. There is nothing wrong in having a strong defense force until the second coming!
 
If you would have peace then prepare for war. A roman general is to have said this. There will always be that madman such as Hussain who will believe that it is the way to get what is wanted. Until such attitude is eliminated from the world you will always have need of the military.
 
Hahaha!!!

Är det en bodensare i farten?
I agree, down with the military! "Ingas"??? Hrmmm....
;)
 
The thing with expecting other countries to back you up is that if you don't have an army to back those countries who would back you up then there is a lack of motivation to protect the lazy country.

You see the irony is that people claim to be peaceful and don't want to fight, but when they get into trouble they expect others who don't hold such an ideaology to protect them. So I say keep the army otherwise others won't bother protecting you unless they find it in their best interests.

With the Australian and US defence treaty (ANZUS) which no longer includes New Zealand because they don't let Nuclear powered US warships in there country, the US told Australia to upgrade the technology of our military to keep up with the rest of the world. So we obliged. If we didn't, the US probably wouldn't be bothered with us as they couldn't be bothered with NZ. Australia is even losing interest in an alliance with NZ because they are basically going cheap with their military and demilitarizing. So now we don't give money to any new NZ pensioners who come to Australia to feed off our welfare system. So Australia has to now spend more to make up for NZ's demilitarization, thus the loss of interest in an alliance with NZ.
 
I hope NZ does not go the route, Cuba went. The best way to arm NZ is to take a chunk out of it or buzz over their land until they either fight or sign peace treaty...I am sure your military planners are working on it....
 
Re: Hahaha!!!

Originally posted by Bebelina
Är det en bodensare i farten?


I'm guessing what the sub-titles are, but yes, it would bother me if I was in the same room, and all the way from Sweden? Maybe not, unless it's the Swedish version of the atomic bomb? You know that girls are suppose to smell sweet & us men are supposed to be the pigs?

I agree, down with the military!

What are you going to do then, when Russia gets tired of being a 3rd rate power thats armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons? You know that big boys like to use their big toys! Some day, the people & the politicos there will decide that living under a Red government is better than dying under a democratic poverty.

"Ingas"??? Hrmmm....

I think the translation is 'blonde, blue eyes & long legs'?
 
Originally posted by Jez

I know it's unlikly but hear me out.

I live in a country that hasn't had any conflict with any other country for hundreds of years and I often wonder what would happen if a country like ours would remove almost their entire military?

<b>And the answer is:</b> Collaborators seldom have problems with conquerers. GEE WHIZ WET (bat)-man1, the NAZIS have promised to leave us alone as long as we don't disagree with their policy of exterminating other human beings.

If I'm not mistaking, my country's policy is to never start a war, we will only defend ourselves from possible attackers. And noone has ever attacked us, knock on wood.

<b>And the 2nd answer is</b>: Name a war, my Swedish friend, that The USA has STARTED!!!!!!!?????

We also keep such a low profile that if any country would attack us, it would cost them to much so that it wouldn't be of any profit for them.

<b>And the 3rd answer is:</b> Why would you try to stop any invader that your ancestors have made a pact with??


Would any country even attack us at all? I'm sure that other countries would back us up if that happen! i.e USA which seems to be included in every conflict this world has to offer. No offence!

<b>And the 4th answer is:</b> Don't be so sure! After all if Sweden doesn't have the decency to defend others who are attacked, what makes the cowards in Sweden so sure that the USA is going to sent American sons (Marine soldiers) to die for a country that hasn't got the decency to involve itself in the defense of freedom-- the world over!!!????


The assumption is liberal to the extreme. The parents of the soldiers, of the United States military, would most certainly not wish to see the sons die for a country that hides away ever-time that a world conflict comes along. You are assuming that the USA is the policemEn OF the WORLD ! ! ! !

NEUTRALITY IS THE SAME AS COLLABORATION
 
I NEVER SAID THAT!

Originally posted by wet1
If you would have peace then prepare for war. A roman general is to have said this. There will always be that madman such as Hussain who will believe that it is the way to get what is wanted. Until such attitude is eliminated from the world you will always have need of the military.

I never said tht wet!!!!!1

What I said was that," BuY off all of your enemies that you can, and kill off the rest. Payoff & lie to those who don't have the stomache for war, & devote the military toward the rest that is left!!!!!!!!!." i HATE TO BE MIS-QUOTED!!!!
 
POOR DUM BABE-LINA!!!

Originally posted by Bebelina
Är det en bodensare i farten?
I agree, down with the military! "Ingas"??? Hrmmm....
;)


Shall we disarm & feel good about ourselves until Hussein or China dictates a PEACE PACT TO US?

REALITY is a kick in the cods!!!!
 
Freedom from tyranny is paid for by blood, not town meetings.

That we (you all & I), can discuss freely anything, is not a result of a countries decision to hide away while wars were fought by other countries previously.

Maybe the USA is being the POLICEMAN -of -the-world today! Did any of you people in the other countries ever consider that we didn't want the job?????]]



The secret to greatness is freedom. Open the doors wide & be great!
 
Howard,

I've read your posts and I have to agree that we are somewhat weak when it comes to defend others but we have sent piece-preserving soldier to other countries i.e former Jugoslavia and also taken care of people who seek shelter in Sweden.

You have to remember that if we deal with one conflict, there is good chance that three new unexpected conflicts will occur. (like what happened in the beginning of WW1).

If it is cowardly to "look the other way", so be it, but then you have to remember that people like Muhatma Gandhi did the same thing, do you see him as a coward?

Small notice: I have NEVER said that USA has started any war, where did you get that from? I do like USA! I'm not trying to talk shit about them! If it seems like that I apologize. It was not my intention.
 
US Starting Wars

Philipinnes, Cuba, Mexico anyone? And of course that glorious ass-whipping at the hands of the Canadians, the War of 1812.
 
1812... When the Canadians and their royal despots from England attacted the U.S. for what purpose?
 
<FONT SIZE ="4">A FEW LITTLE MISTAKES.....</FONT SIZE>

YOU HAVE TO BREAK A FEW EGGS TO MAKE AN OMLET!!!
:D :cool: :D KNEW I'D PISS OFF A FEW ON THAT!!!!:D
 
The War of 1812
Letters from Soldiers of this War

http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jsek/1812maas.htm

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It is with great pleasure that I have been able to include a letter that was written by an American soldier who fought during the War of 1812. Of even greater surprise and to my enjoyment, was the realization that this letter was written during the actual Siege of Fort Erie. I intend to supply more information about this timely combatant as the information is made available to me. For now, I thank the current holder of this letter, Robert Maas, who is the writer's great-great-great-grandson, for allowing me to publish it on the Internet.

As you will notice there are portions of the letter marked with "_?_" which indicates an unreadable word or phrase. Hopefully we will be able to fill in these blanks. Any comments you may wish to pass on to Mr. Maas may be done so through me. So for now, seat back and allow yourself to be taken back in time during one the most bloodiest battles of the War of 1812.

Other original letters


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From the time I joined the Army till after the Battle of Bridgewater which took place on the 25th day of July 1814, just before the Falls of Niagara and through which I was mysteriously preserved, when to __?__ over nothing but death was inevitable. I will begin by Comm__? narative at that funeral immediately after that battle from what is __?__ in the eastern allies, Supposed to arrive from the __?__ of the particles of fluids and the facility with which they slid over each other it is infered that they have. We proceeded up the river to Fort Erie which is directly __(across?)__ from Buffalo on the Canadian Shore and stand some 20 or 30 rods __?__ the lake which I think __?__ __?__ on the 1st of August this __?__ surrendered to our men on the 3rd of the preceding month, and contained in its enclosure about 1/4 of an acre of ground prepared for a short __?__ with a large stone building two stories high.

Our Army being now considerably reduces and our men somewhat worn down by fatique in consequence of the recent engagement thet had passed through. It was deemed a matter of prudence to leave ourselves effectually by additional fortifications against any sudden attack that might be made on us by the enemy, we accordingly in __?__ ourselves by throwing up a strong breastwork commencing at the fort and moving westward to a considerable distance and terminating at a small inn directly on the margin of the lake and which by the Canadians was called Snake Hill on which we placed a number of __?__.

Townsend Battery after the name of its commander from the fort southward to the lake and threw up another breastwork of equal strength with the former, both of which together with the original fort we fortified with heavy pieces of cannon around the whole of our breastwork on the outside all dug wide and deep ditch and yet again on the outside of that we placed two rows of pickets or combs of trees sharpened at the top ends and laid closely together which would greatly stand the __?__ of the enemy, should there be an attack made upon us. We now viewed ourselves tolerably well secured against any onset that might occur, being well fortified on the east,north and west and having the lake on the south. We had nothing to fear from the quarter as the victorious Lexy? had swept the enemy from its surface the _?__ year.

Having accomplished this ardous labour we continued to make such additional repairs and preparations in the recent Battles of Chippewa and Bridgewater by an additional supply of troops. Troops came on after us and threw up batteries on the bank of the river about a half mile below an encampment. It had now got to be about the 12th day of the month when on __?__ came from the commander of the British army which left it discretionary with our commanding officers to surrender as prisioners of war to his Majesty's forces or run the risk of being taken by storm an given up to the savage fury of their Indian allies without any protection.

Our commander an chief who was General Brown thinking it was proper not to notice of this __?__ immediately returned the messenger without an answer upon this they commenced a heavy cannonading which continued about a day and a half without any _?_ while our men in return gave them as good as thay sent. This cannonading commenced on the 13th day in the morning and continued till noon the next day, which it came to be a temporary __?__ this circumstance produced so small a degree of surprise on _?_ in our minds as we expected nothing but a continuance of their shots and shells till we were completely _?_ to surrender or they had fairly proved that their efforts were unavailing.

We concluded _?_ that in conformity to the message thay had previously sent that their suspension of hostilities for the present were only in order to their consenting and maturing plans of _?_ by which they might more effectively accomplish their grand object as we were fully informed by those afterwards fell into our hands as prisioners and also by a number of deserters. We however on our fort were not idle. Everything was put into the best possible preparations and all stood ready and waiting. Everything now remained still and tanquil till about 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning of the 15th when our camp was alarmed by the firing of musketry by our picket guard #4 which was stationed west of our encampment on the lake shore _?_

It was discovered that a large body of the enemy were advancing and _?_ to get within the encampment by wading through the water around the end of the breastwork which might easily be done as the water is shallow and the bottom is a flat rock which extends to a considerable distance into the lake, their widest design in this undertaking was to throw us in confusion and thereby give easy _?_ to those that might come upon us from other quarters but in this they were badly disappointed for no sooner did they come within the reach of our guns and canisters, when such a destruction fire was opened upon them from Townsends Battery that many poor fellows found a watery grave while the rest retreated with great precipitation.

Agreeable with their plan of attack another strong body came upon the northwestern part of our encampmentand endeavoured to try to gain the inside by leaping the breastwork, but immediately coming in contact with the rows of pickets we had placed and the deep ditch _?_ their _?_ was greatly _?_ while the bellowing thunders of the Townsend bottom moaned down upon them in such a _?_ way, together with the fine of our infantry, as laid them in heaps and _?_the ditch with the mangled bodies of the dead and wounded, by this time another party made an attack upon the east end of our encampment and by means of scaling ladders had gained as entrance into the old fort. There was now work enough to be done the _?_ which the enemy had met with had greatly increased their courage.

The contest was blood and _?_ in the extreme. So that one detachment after another was taken from the left of our regiment to _?_ the _?_ occassioned by our wounded, as the area of the fort was so small but few of our men could be brought into action at once. It was in this contest that poor Abel Sanderson fell victim to fate of was in the act of stepping from the door step of the stone building which stood in the fort, he was shot through the heart by a British soldier and fell dead. I would here stop and notice a circumstance relative to my own preservation which everytime it occurs to my memory raises in my mind a glow of admination at the interposition of that overrulin providence after time, though apparently in a very simple manner turns aside the arrows of death from those earthly existence.

It designs to prolong and which I feel lays me under a debt of gratitude to my _?_ of other officers, which our _?_ only _?_ killed and 50 or 60 wounded. I might then mention in which we found many of those who suffered by the explosion but the relation would be to heart sickening, therefore I forebear. I will now notice the manner in which the enterprise was undertaken and the reward that every brave fellow should receive, who would voluntarily engage in it accordingly to the information we received from those who were taken prisioners and also deserters.

The Commander in Chief of the British Forces made the proposition that every man who would freely offer his services to go and _?_, the strong hold of the yankey's. I should receive as a compensation of his valor, on pint of good Old Jamaican Rum, accordingly 1500 brave men presented themselves, who declared that in honour to their King and in view of the reward to be conferred, they were ready to engage in the undertaking, however hazardous, but the wisdom with which their plan of operations has been concerted and unguarded condition in which they expected to find us at the finest point of attack, left no doubts in their minds that the expedition they were about to engage in could _?_ fail ti success but _?_ for them _?_ and had

Disappointment must have filled the mind of their companions they had left in the camp. When only about 300 men returned to tell the sad tale, that so many of there comrades were left behind and deprived of the privelege of setting down around the flowing _?_ to congradulate each other on the successful issue of their undertaken and to the drinking to the health of their king and country.

I now pass to the 17th day of the month. A day which to me, in which my soul was translated out of the Kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's dear son. Is the most memorable period of my life, our cousins Ralph Bingham and Simeom Laitham of Springfield received their death wounds. The British now continued firing and we found it necessary in order to prevent their shots from making our line to throw up some additional works of defense, in doing this, we were under the necessity of going outside the breastwork to get materials and in which _?_ our cousin Bingham and Laitham was employed, while they stood facing each other, from a enemy a cannon shot took off the right leeg of one and the left leg of the other, they both fell together amputation was attended as soon as possible but poor fellows they survived for a short time.

The 17th day now arrived , nothing extraordinary occurred only now and then 18 and 24 lb shot would plow through our encampment and would find a lodging place in the bottom of the lake a chain shot would pop over our heads making a strange kind of dismal music by its revolution. I now come to mention the circumstances of my own catastrophe. For the greater security of our own tents and baggage against the effects of the British balls.

I now come to mention the circumstances if my own catastrophe . For the greater security of our own tents and baggage against the effects of the British balls, we had placed all our movables near the breastwork while in the rear of our tents and in the open range of our enemy's guns our men were under the necessity of lighting up their fires to perform the labour of cooking (cook- Washington C). It had now got to be in the dusk of the evening and it so happened that I was standing at one of the fires which formed a very desirable object for the enemy to aim at, they reasonable supposed that our men would be round the fire in considerable number, a soldier on the opposite side of the fire took up a kettle in which he had been preparing food for his supper, at the same time I lifted one from the side on which I stood in order to set it in the place from where he took his, when just at that moment while my arms were expended in the act of letting down the kettle the enemy let go a 20lb shot which came over the breastwork, struck the ground and as it glanced, struck my right arm in the elbow joint and the left arm just above, for a few seconds I did not know what had taken place, as the wind produced by the ball,blew the ashes into my hair and eyes which prevented me from seeing, and as I experienced not the least pain by the infliction of the wounds. But when I came to see what was done, what my feelings were I leave you to imagine if possible by me they must forever remain under_?_.

O'God I said are both my arms gone. I stopt I could say no more, A thousand thoughts
 
War of 1812

Americans never like to be reminded of this one. I believe you'll find that the 'War Hawks' of 1810 in Congress urged an expansionist US government, always coveting Canada, to declare war on England. Ten US armies invaded. Ten US armies got an ass-whooping. Washington burned. Haven't tried it again have you?

If we wanted to be a part of an expansionist, neo-Imperialist country run by southern lawyers in love with slavery, we would have mentioned it. We didn't. You tried force. You lost. Let that be a lesson to you.
 
Read this and I'll begin:

For the Americans, the greatest irritant was Britain's practice of impressment, or the seizure of American seamen for service in the British navy. The British government claimed that it only seized subjects of the Crown who sailed under the American flag to avoid wartime service in their own navy. In fact, the British seized not only their own deserters, but also impressed a sizeable number of United States citizens-estimates suggest 6000 or more.
Public outrage over the issue of impressment grew increasingly vocal after an incident between the American naval frigate Chesapeake and a British vessel, the Leopard. In June 1807 the Leopard approached the Chesapeake only a few miles off the American coast and demanded to search the ship for British deserters. The Chesapeake's commander, James Barron, refused, and the Leopard opened fire. A number of American sailors were killed or wounded during the attack, and the Chesapeake surrendered. The British then sent a party aboard and dragged four crewmen from the vessel. After the incident, Jefferson ordered British warships to leave American waters and demanded an end to the practice of impressment. The British did make some apologies and restitution for the Chesapeake-Leopard incident, but continued to claim the right to seize American ships and inspect them for deserters.

"War of 1812," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2000. © 1993-1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

I don't know about you but if someone was grabbing almost 6000 citizens, the size of many towns of the time don't you'd want to go to war?

So we declaired war first, big whoop! War Hawks were right, Britian was sore about losing the Revolution, and this was there chance to regain the colonies. Piriting the seas is reason for war, especially when they claimed the right to seize American ships and saliors.

So who should be blamed for starting the war, the US or Britian?
 
Howard

I feel sorry that the only reply you come up with was to call med dum.... :rolleyes:

And what do you mean with "real pictures"?
 
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