What if Spartans won ...

D

draqon

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Sparta.gif


So there were 300 Spartans with 4000 or so Greeks to help them...

The Spartans are highly tactical and exceptionally good at war and efficient...whereas Greeks are just 2x better than Persians...

vs.

600,000 Persians...


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So lets do the math here...say each Greek killed 2 Persians...and than died...we have 4000 dead Greeks and 8000 dead Persians as a result...

so we are left with 600,000 Persians - 8,000 Persians = 592,000 Persians left...
:D

so if Spartans are to win...they would have to kill how many Persians each?

592,000/300 = 1974 Persians ....

Each spartan had to kill around 2000 Persians

Now a sword and full suit armor weighed 30lbs, Put the armor on and swing the sword...Persian dies...swing another time...another Persian dies...how many times can you swing a sword weighing 2lbs while running and jumping? Lets assume that every 5th swing was a hit for a Persian death...so 5 swings and one Persian dead.

How long would 5 swings take? 20 seconds...

so we got 1 Persian dead every 20 seconds...

so every minute we got 5 Persian dead for each Spartan

20 minutes and we have 100 Persians dead

1 hour and we have 300 Persians dead ...

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So every hour 1 Spartan kills 300 Persians....

There are 300 Spartans and each kills 300 Persians in one hour hypothetically speaking at 100% efficiency rate.

90,000 Persians dead in one hour...the bodies line up in a pile underneath the Spartan feet...some bodies are used as shields some are used for barricades...

After one hour the Persian army retreats from the looses and everyone waits it out...

We used to have 592,000 Persians and now 592,000-90,000 Persians = 502,000 Persians left...

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So than from here on...lets assume that the Spartan efficiency at killing decreases 10% every hour...

So we have 300 Persians - 30 Persians = 270 Persians for every Spartan

270 Persians * 300 Spartans = 81,000 Persians dead the 2nd hour

As of 2nd hour we have: 502,000 Persians - 81,000 Persians = 421,000 Persians left

3rd hour: (20% decline in efficiency)

300 Persians - 60 Persians = 240 Persians for every Spartan

240 Persians * 300 Spartans = 72,000 Persiands dead the 3rd hour

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=h8bIEk58LzI

As of 3rd hour we have: 421,000-72,000 Persians = 349,000 Persians left

4th hour: (30% decline in efficiency)

300 Persians - 90 Persians = 210 Persians for every Spartan

210 Persians * 300 Spartans = 63,000 Persians dead the 4th hour

As of 4th hour we have: 349,000-63,000 Persians = 286,000 Persians left

5th hour: (40% decline in efficiency)

300 Persians - 120 Persians = 180 Persians for every Spartan

180 Persians * 300 Spartans = 54,000 Persians dead the 5th hour

As of 5th hour we have: 286,000-54,000 Persians = 232,000 Persians left

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this_is_sparta_v2_0_by_dooo.gif


The battle for the day is over...with hours of rest in between and piles of corpses here and there...the army just cannot get to the Spartans to kill them and night settles...so everyone rests.

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=rtiuzbSmtlk&feature=related

Efficiency of Spartans goes up from 60% to 80% (since morale is down from all the hundreds of thousands of corpses rotting)

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A new day of battle:

1st hour: (80% efficiency)

300 Persians - 60 Persians = 240 Persians for every Spartan

240 Persians * 300 Spartans = 72,000 Persians dead the 1st hour

As of 1st hour we have: 232,000-72,000 Persians = 160,000 Persians left

~~~But wait...the Spartans have fought previous day and their efficiency rate will drop by 20% every hour from now on~~~


2nd hour: (60% efficiency)

300 Persians - 120 Persians = 180 Persians for every Spartan

180 Persians * 300 Spartans = 54,000 Persians dead the 2nd hour

As of 2nd hour we have: 160,000-54,000 Persians = 106,000 Persians left

3rd hour: (40% efficiency)

300 Persians - 180 Persians = 120 Pesians for every Spartan

120 Persians * 300 Spartans = 36,000 Persians dead the 3rd hour

As of 2nd hour we have: 106,000-36,000 Persians = 70,000 Persians left

3rd hour: (20% efficiency)

300 Persians - 240 Persians = 60 Pesians for every Spartan

60 Persians * 300 Spartans = 18,000 Persians dead the 3rd hour

As of 3rd hour we have: 70,000-18,000 Persians = 52,000 Persians left

~~at this point the Spartans have done very well...but they are both in luck since there are only 50,000 Persians left...and not in luck at all since their next battle will be close to 0% efficiency...however they are in luck the weather changes and Gods grant very bad weather so the Persian army retrieves. That night they see a huge army of Persians come by boats, however they are in luck, the boats sink in a storm, they rejoice and their efficiency goes up...however about half of that army of Persians remain...about 300,000 of them.

Anyone care to assess, how the battle will turn out now that the Spartans efficiency rate is up to 80% and they will have to battle 300,000 Persians + 52,000 Persians left = 352,000 Persians.
 
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Anyways Barbiegirl no.14, please stay on topic, which is discussion of Sparta battle tactics:

Sparta.gif
 
To be realistic, no millitary force would commit itsef to the battle after a certain amount of loss. Its not like they would have continued to toss themselves at the Spartans indefinitely. Xerxes would have eventually called it quits, or changed strategies (which he did).
 
domesticated om said:
To be realistic, no millitary force would commit itsef to the battle after a certain amount of loss. Its not like they would have continued to toss themselves at the Spartans indefinitely. Xerxes would have eventually called it quits, or changed strategies (which he did).
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well what should have they done differently? Where did their strategy fail?

Assuming they superior and efficient war machines and intelligent and close to 100% kill rate and 100% survival rate.
 
draqon said:
Are you kidding me?! :) Its in top 5 all time. :)

What do you think about the Spartans...how would they have won...if its even possible...
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I agree with Domestic Om on this one. The Persians just would not stop throwing themselves at the spartans and the spartans were not getting defeated. The Spartans seemed to all have one basic strategy: to die honorably killing as many persians as possible.
 
The Spartans only did this to let others get away or retreat if you like. They were sacrificing themselves so eventually they would have been losers in due time anyway.
 
cosmictraveler said:
The Spartans only did this to let others get away or retreat if you like. They were sacrificing themselves so eventually they would have been losers in due time anyway.
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well I understand their strategy of mass murder kill all suicide for the sake of others...but what could they have done different?

What if we came back in time and told Leonides what to do...imagine...
 
There were actually about 10,000 Greeks versus 250,000 Persians, and the Greeks, because of their fighting style and the chosen terrain, killed about 100,000 Persians before they were all dead.

The sacrifice of their lives brought respect to those city states and gave the other city states in Greece time to mobilize against and repel the Persian invasion. In the end, the Persians were unable to conquer Greece.
 
Eidolan said:
There were actually about 10,000 Greeks versus 250,000 Persians, and the Greeks, because of their fighting style and the chosen terrain, killed about 100,000 Persians before they were all dead.

The sacrifice of their lives brought respect to those city states and gave the other city states in Greece time to mobilize against and repel the Persian invasion. In the end, the Persians were unable to conquer Greece.
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but did the Persians conquer Sparta?
 
draqon said:
but did the Persians conquer Sparta?
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No one ever did, until the Romans Capitulated all of Greece. It was even a white part on Alexander's map. I think Sparta was not even close to it's former glory at that time, even.
 
The Persians may have given up if they had not of out-flanked The Spartans. The Spartans were better trained, had better weapons and armor, held a great defensive position, and they perfected the usage of the Phalanx. But the Persians found a way to out-flank the Spartans thus taking away the defensive advantage the Spartans held.


But as several posters have commented, the intent of the Spartans wasn't to win. They merely wanted to buy time and demoralize the Persians. They knew the Persians had not faced an Army as well-trained or armed as theirs. If 300 Spartans can withstand your attack for several days what will a few thousand do?
 
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