What God Could Be

Does science now fill the emotional void (the fear of death) that caused this myth to emerge from the imaginations of the masses?

Why should it?

Science now answers for man that; what? Death is harmless and wonderful?

Absolutely, give it a shot.

Science makes no claim to fill emotional needs, does it? I hope not; I would doubt any such science.

Then you must doubt science.

The ‘primatives’ who sought answers to the question of ‘what happens at death?’ are (were) far more advanced than one who scoffs at such questions, but offers no answer.

Is that a question?
 
Prince_James said:
Truthseeker:

As perfection is rooted in logic, perfection is objective and not bound by perspective.
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Well, if that's true, can you give me an overview of the logical argument? ;)
 
Sure.

Let me take a common attribute of God, omnipresence, and use it to logically conclude what perfection is for it. Not to prove that omnipresence exists - I have logical proofs for that, but will be showing them when I write up a big thing on it - but simply to demonstrate how perfection, for any given thing, is logically demonstrated.

Presence is the quality of existing. Normal, imperfect existence, takes up a specific measurement of space, be it a cubic centimetre, a cubic metre, or a cubic anything. But what would be the ultimate expression of existence? To exist as the totality of reality. What is perfection but the ultimate expression of something, its ideal state? In the quality of existence, can something which exists throughout all reality have a flaw in its quality of existence? Nay. It has fullfilled the totality of existence. With this in mind, we conclude that omnipresence is the ultimate expression of existence, its perfection.
 
[SM]Does science now fill the emotional void (the fear of death) that caused this myth to emerge from the imaginations of the masses?

[Q]Why should it?

Wasn't me who claimed that God was created due to a lack of science, and you quantified the necesity of the answer. You said, speaking for the primatives that, "yet we needed answers, and soon." That would be your question to answer, it was not my premise. Actually it wasn't yours either, but you did introduce it here.





[SM]Science now answers for man that; what? Death is harmless and wonderful?

[Q]Absolutely, give it a shot.

Tell the primatives in your story. It was they (you claimed... not I), had those needs. You should share with them all of your scientific knowledge that would answer the question for them; you know... to put their emotional minds at ease; so that they don't create God in the first place. They have caused so much trouble for you and ask the siliest questions.





[SM]Science makes no claim to fill emotional needs, does it? I hope not; I would doubt any such science.

[Q]Then you must doubt science.

Wow; personal science? OK, if that's the kind of science you believe in, go ahead; have faith!





[SM]The ‘primatives’ who sought answers to the question of ‘what happens at death?’ are (were) far more advanced than one who scoffs at such questions, but offers no answer.

[Q]Is that a question?

Is there a question mark at the end of the sentance? No. I already answered that one so you don't have to.
 
Prince James,

Prince_James said:
Sure.

Let me take a common attribute of God, omnipresence, and use it to logically conclude what perfection is for it. Not to prove that omnipresence exists - I have logical proofs for that, but will be showing them when I write up a big thing on it - but simply to demonstrate how perfection, for any given thing, is logically demonstrated.

Presence is the quality of existing. Normal, imperfect existence, takes up a specific measurement of space, be it a cubic centimetre, a cubic metre, or a cubic anything. But what would be the ultimate expression of existence? To exist as the totality of reality. What is perfection but the ultimate expression of something, its ideal state? In the quality of existence, can something which exists throughout all reality have a flaw in its quality of existence? Nay. It has fullfilled the totality of existence. With this in mind, we conclude that omnipresence is the ultimate expression of existence, its perfection.
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I know you are working on your entire logical theology, but I have some questions about your premise of perfect.

(1) Presence is the quality of existing.

I know it may be a question of semantics and I don't wish to introduce circular thinking on this, but by “existing” do you mean objective reality. It is difficult for obvious reasons furthered by your argument. If it is quantifiable… measurable, has depth, can be touched, then it cannot exist, both perfect and objective simultaneously. Is this why a logical God cannot exist?

(2) It has fullfilled the totality of existence. With this in mind, we conclude that omnipresence is the ultimate expression of existence, its perfection.


Is then space-time perfect in objective reality (existence)? Space-time can break down in some theories, but the realities expressed by such theories do not fit your definition of objective reality do they, so space–time may be the ultimate expression of existence? If not Space-time than what is perfect, a unified theory that can be shown to be objectively true in all disciplines? It seems there is no perfect.

A little help on those, so I can follow your next tenant.
 
Prince_James said:
Sure.

Let me take a common attribute of God, omnipresence, and use it to logically conclude what perfection is for it. Not to prove that omnipresence exists - I have logical proofs for that, but will be showing them when I write up a big thing on it - but simply to demonstrate how perfection, for any given thing, is logically demonstrated.

Presence is the quality of existing. Normal, imperfect existence, takes up a specific measurement of space, be it a cubic centimetre, a cubic metre, or a cubic anything. But what would be the ultimate expression of existence? To exist as the totality of reality. What is perfection but the ultimate expression of something, its ideal state? In the quality of existence, can something which exists throughout all reality have a flaw in its quality of existence? Nay. It has fullfilled the totality of existence. With this in mind, we conclude that omnipresence is the ultimate expression of existence, its perfection.
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I see what you are saying.
However, would a state of perfection be permanent? That is, if you attain perfection, would it be a constant unchangin state?
 
truthseeker said:
What is really perfection? Is it an absolute concept or is it dependent on your perception? Can there be any "perfection"?
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prince james said:
As perfection is rooted in logic, perfection is objective and not bound by perspective.
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can perfection ever be complete. that is; as a state is reached, previously though of as being the perfect state, there may be a perception of further growth, further work towards a greater being, each plateau of perfection contains the opportunity for even greater perfection. the constant elimination of the lower is the perpetual integration of the higher.
 
ellion said:
can perfection ever be complete. that is; as a state is reached, previously though of as being the perfect state, there may be a perception of further growth, further work towards a greater being, each plateau of perfection contains the opportunity for even greater perfection. the constant elimination of the lower is the perpetual integration of the higher.
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That's exactly what I pointed out. Why don't you just let him get it? ;)

Yaba Daba :m:
 
Actually it wasn't yours either, but you did introduce it here.

You said:

if it is even possible to put down a sufficient amount of pre-conceptions for us to create attributes we would like of God.
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They have caused so much trouble for you and ask the siliest questions.

No, they just had silly answers, in which 'They have caused so much trouble' is a gross understatement.

Is there a question mark at the end of the sentance? No. I already answered that one so you don't have to.

Very well, then.

Is there anything else tying knots in your panties?

BTW - who is Jimmy Buffet?
 
Oh, I see. You were attempting to insult me. Good one. :rolleyes:
 
Omnipotence - All power within logical bounds.

Power of nothing. You can only do what is perfect. You must follow specific lines.

Omniscience - All knowledge.

The mind knows everything, since everything is in the mind. It's impossible to be conscious of something outside your consciousness, hence everything is in you, you're just conscious of your unconscious.

Omniscience - Knowledge of nothing...

Omnipresence - Encompasing and being all of existence and reality.

The self is omnipresent. Some creatures are conscious of it...

TruthSeeker said:
What is really perfection?
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Everything, of course. Perfection can never be reached because it already is. It is the center of the spiral where everything rises. You became the center of the universe. Everywhere.

~ Nothing
 
Perfection can never be reached because it already is.

Does that perfection include war, terrorism, pestulence, starvation, disease, murder?
 
His existence depends on His definition. Without preconceptions, it is possible to define God as something that exists. For example, if God is the energy that drives atoms around, then it can be considered to exist. Unfortunately, there are no adequate definitions of God, which leaves atheists at something of a loss to argue against it, and gives the religious an easy out in the debate.

Mostly the definition is so nebulous or all pervasive that it is meaningless. I believe that Jesus thought of God as a name given to existence, a name that is better left unsaid because it is too limiting. In this case, it is just terminology for philosophy in the way that new terms must be created in mathematics to discuss new ideas.
 
(Q) said:
Perfection can never be reached because it already is.

Does that perfection include war, terrorism, pestulence, starvation, disease, murder?
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Of course. They are divine things. They are the negative side of divinity. They must exist so that the positive would exist, so that the unity and attraction between them would exist. They come from the same stem. These two sides are as illusional as up and down, and they have no independent existence without the mind. When the negative and positive are united, a "child" is born, and everything except that child dissapears, and that child is nothing. The one who does without doing. The one who works but does not collect the effects of his actions. The presence.

Evil is a force of balance. Good becomes evil if it falls out of balance, and evil becomes good when it falls out of balance. People only want the positive things, so they remain in the neverending circle of life and death. Become the center of the circle where there is no positive or negative, where they are united.

Evil is not evil, good is not good. Perfection is not perfection.

Christ-satan. Evil is the force which makes us hate this world and come back to the "paradise" which is neither negative or positive.
 
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