What comes to mind?

We have a long and shameful history as a species of treating our mentally ill members terribly, usually demonizing them as witches or demoniacs who are possessed by evil spirits. Later on we just learned to treat them as social misfits to either be locked up in attics and asylums or sent out on crewless ships where they couldn't bother us anymore. At some point it became acceptable to submit them to electroshock torture, ice baths, and lobotomies. Finally, realizing that mental illness is real and a physical condition of the brain, we can nowadays perhaps redeem outselves of our sordid legacy and begin treating such people with the dignity and compassion they deserve. But even today we have the demonizers, the moralizers, the spouters of pseudoscientific crapola. It's really embarrassing that in the 21st century such a-holes are still around. "Oh its all made up. There's no problem. Meds don't work. These people are just undisciplined malfeasants who need to grow up. Lalalalalalala.."
 
wynn said:
If you are working 12-hour shifts seven days a week at a job you hate, and end up depressed, is that really "dysfunction" on your part? Do you really have a "condition"?
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Yes, you are depressed. A doctor may be able to help you decide how to deal with your depression so you can live a happier life.

Just as it is natural to get blisters from wearing too tight shoes, it's only to be expected that people will end up with mental difficulties when they try to function in environments that are too constricting for them.
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Some can, some can't. Some love that sort of stuff. It drives some people nuts. A good doctor helps people learn to live happier lives.

Let's take another example - a delivery service worker. At age 50 he goes to a doctor and says "doctor, my back hurts, my knees hurt, and I can't sleep at night!" A bad doctor would say "so quit your damn job; it's all that lifting that's hurting you." A better doctor might try physical therapy, medication, aids like lifting slings, even surgery - along with asking if he can get a better job.

This is so naive, so idealistic!
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It is also reality.
 
spidergoat said:
Right, it's just like the anti-vaccine people. It's a kind of conspiracy theory.
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I have two nephews with autism. I guess they'd say autism is just a kid who needs firmer discipline. Used to be everyone thought that. The kid's just being a brat. Thank goodness we know today it is far more than that.
 
Magical Realist said:
I have two nephews with autism. I guess they'd say autism is just a kid who needs firmer discipline. Used to be everyone thought that. The kid's just being a brat. Thank goodness we know today it is far more than that.
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I have autism. Until I found out about it, I blamed myself for my social faults which led to low self-esteem and self-injurious behavior. Knowing I was autistic was a huge revelation. Not only did I not blame myself anymore, I was able to benefit from a large body of knowledge about dealing with it. This kind of diagnosis can save lives.
 
spidergoat said:
I have autism. Until I found out about it, I blamed myself for my social faults which led to low self-esteem and self-injurious behavior. Knowing I was autistic was a huge revelation. Not only did I not blame myself anymore, I was able to benefit from a large body of knowledge about dealing with it. This kind of diagnosis can save lives.
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I can't even imagine all the abuse and taunting you must've gone thru. You are a true survivor. Be very proud of that. I heard actress Daryl Hannah is autistic. Yet she made quite a fine career for herself. Remember her in Blade Runner? Now that science is trying to isolate the causes of autism perhaps we will find ways of preventing it in the near future. One can only hope..
 
spidergoat said:
I have autism. Until I found out about it, I blamed myself for my social faults which led to low self-esteem and self-injurious behavior. Knowing I was autistic was a huge revelation. Not only did I not blame myself anymore, I was able to benefit from a large body of knowledge about dealing with it. This kind of diagnosis can save lives.
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Hi spidergoat, I have a cousin (2nd or 3rd, twice removed) with autism (Down Syndrome) in another country. I stayed with his family in 2000 and everybody was out one afternoon so I entertained him by playing a game of pool (8 ball, and letting him win). It took one and a half hours for him to win and surprisingly enough, that win was a real win for everybody. He was so engrossed that he missed the episode of the local soapie he watched every day, the episode where his favourite character was killed in an accident.
 
Syne said:
So all you have is anecdotal evidence, which does not refute how the meds make people feel, and ad hominems. Nice.
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Syne, about 30 years ago I worked as a volunteer counsellor at a local drug referral centre. The president was a well respected doctor and the VP was a pharmacist. Whenever we had someone coming down from heroin addiction cold turkey we would pick them up, take them to the doctor for a rohypnol script (yes, the date rape drug), take them to the pharmacy to collect the meds (the pharmacist would open up especially) and take them back to the centre to ensure they took their correct dose. One time we had a guy who was so wound up that shortly after taking 2 rohypnol he was still shaking so much that the paintings on the wall were rattling (I am not kidding). It took two of us talking him down for half an hour to stop the shaking (and he didn't fall to sleep at all). We did similar things in the hospital when someone overdosed and was given narcan. For those who are not aware a heroin addicts brain stops making dopamine and it takes a bit of time for the production to start up again when they have no heroin in their systems.

The sedatives makes them forget about the pain racking their bodies, talking with real people makes them feel human again and gives them confidence in themselves, not the other way around.
 
Magical Realist said:
We have a long and shameful history as a species of treating our mentally ill members terribly, usually demonizing them as witches or demoniacs who are possessed by evil spirits. Later on we just learned to treat them as social misfits to either be locked up in attics and asylums or sent out on crewless ships where they couldn't bother us anymore. At some point it became acceptable to submit them to electroshock torture, ice baths, and lobotomies. Finally, realizing that mental illness is real and a physical condition of the brain, we can nowadays perhaps redeem outselves of our sordid legacy and begin treating such people with the dignity and compassion they deserve. But even today we have the demonizers, the moralizers, the spouters of pseudoscientific crapola. It's really embarrassing that in the 21st century such a-holes are still around. "Oh its all made up. There's no problem. Meds don't work. These people are just undisciplined malfeasants who need to grow up. Lalalalalalala.."
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The hidden benefit of claiming that mental illness is real and all physical, is that this way, there exists a neat separation between the "normal" and the "mentally ill," and the "normal" ones get to feel good about themselves this way.
 
wynn said:
The hidden benefit of claiming that mental illness is real and all physical, is that this way, there exists a neat separation between the "normal" and the "mentally ill," and the "normal" ones get to feel good about themselves this way.
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It is what it is. If people want to hold it over others that they are better than they are then they will always find some excuse to do so. If it isn't being "normal", a dubious aspiration at best, then it will be that they have better self-discipline or are stronger people or work harder or whatever they wanna hold against mentally ill people. In the meantime, we are living in a era of waking up to the normality of having mental illness. While there remains a social stigma against it, education and pr campaigns and Hollywood are showing it to be more common than we knew and a fact about oneself that can be lived with and adapted to with proper medications, therapy, and support groups. There is no imperative to accomodate the moralizing assholes out there who are always going to denigrate people who are different from them anyway.
 
Magical Realist said:
I can't even imagine all the abuse and taunting you must've gone thru. You are a true survivor. Be very proud of that. I heard actress Daryl Hannah is autistic. Yet she made quite a fine career for herself. Remember her in Blade Runner? Now that science is trying to isolate the causes of autism perhaps we will find ways of preventing it in the near future. One can only hope..
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I love me some Daryl Hannah!
 
Syne said:
So all you have is anecdotal evidence, which does not refute how the meds make people feel, and ad hominems. Nice.
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You just don't get it. Mentally ill people don't HAVE the luxury of dismissing meds just because they feel less of a person. When it comes to having to choose between depression, and mania, and voices in the head, or not having deeper emotions, the choice is more than obvious. Many drugs even take away their sex drive. But even that is a small concession for the benefit of not having to go thru the full blown crippling symptoms of their disorder. If you REALLY knew mentally ill people you'd know this already. But you don't do you? You just sit in your armchair and pontificate about a subject you have absolutely no experience with just to push some weird ideological agenda you have.
 
wynn said:
The hidden benefit of claiming that mental illness is real and all physical, is that this way, there exists a neat separation between the "normal" and the "mentally ill," and the "normal" ones get to feel good about themselves this way.
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That's such rubbish. Mental illnesses are scientific models of states of mind. They have similarities across populations in terms of manifestation and success of appropriate medications. That is all that is required for a working hypothesis.
 
darylhannah1.jpg
 
wynn said:
The hidden benefit of claiming that mental illness is real and all physical, is that this way, there exists a neat separation between the "normal" and the "mentally ill," and the "normal" ones get to feel good about themselves this way.
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The actual benefit of accepting and recognising that mental illness "is real and all physical" is to ensure research continues and help and medication is developed to help them live and cope with their illness. Unless of course you're the type of arsehole who prefers to ignore it and ignore people's suffering, because it makes you feel better about yourself..?
 
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