What are We Fighting For

M

mamabaer

Registered Member
Here is a poem that I wrote for my husband while he was fighting in the jungles of Viet Nam. This still hold true over 35 years later.

What are We Fighting For

What are we fighting for I've heard people say
If it were not for way we would not be free today

Our fathers fought in the first world war
Never once asking, "What are we fighting for"

Now people who will never fight
Shout out with all their might "What are we fighting for"

The only answer to their plea
They are fighting for you, they are fighting for me

How many more tears would be shed
If not for these brave men, we all would be dead

So let us Americans as we say we are
Stand behind our brave men, whether near or far

For peace can not come without war
And that my friends is "What We are Fighting For."

I normally do not write poetry, as you can see. I write children's books. I am a Louisiana Storyteller and author by trade. I am the author of the Theodore Da Baer series of stories.

Teddy Baer Hugs and Magical Wishes to you and yours. May your lives be filled with Teddy Baer Hugs and Magical Moments.

AJ
 
I hate to speak in opposition to someone so kind of heart and rich in talent. But Vietnam was not WWI. Neither is Iraq.

America has been overcome by its own hubris. We arrogantly believe that we can solve other people's problems. Hardly anyone in this country has the vaguest idea of what was going on before their grandparents were alive--before the times that they heard first-hand accounts of. We have no sense of history at all, we only care about the present and the future.

For a people like us to think we can send troops in to help other people resolve conflicts that have been going on for hundreds or thousands of years is utterly ridiculous. We don't have the depth to even comprehend what they are fighting over.

The Sunnis, Shias, Wahhabis, Kurds, Jews, and other Mideastern people have been at each other's throats for so long that most of them don't even remember why they're fighting. "Your grandpa killed my grandpa so I'm going to kill everybody in your whole village."

Our country was stolen from the Indians and built by African slaves. It's way too early for us to claim that we've become so noble and wise that we can teach other people how to make nice with each other.

Besides, don't get me started on WWI. There were lots of Americans who thought the Germans were in the right. (I'm old enough to have met a few of them, as you surely are as well.) The tragedy of the Lusitania was in large part engineered by American leaders in order to make us turn off our reason and crank up our emotions. We were manipulated into taking sides in a war that was none of our business.

It was apparently so much fun that from that point on nobody had to beg us to fight. We love to participate in wars and if there doesn't happen to be one going on we'll just start one ourselves.
 
The US was very hesitant to enter both WWI and WWII, and in fact, many people asked "what are we fighting for?" WWI period literature is marked by Stein's "Lost Generation", most notably Fitzgerald, Hemingway and Dos Passos.

Ever read Dulce Et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen? It's a gruesome piece. Wilfred himself was killed 7 days before the WWI ended.

Both World Wars were against tyranny and oppressive imperial powers. There was a very real risk, especially in WWII, of America being invaded. Let us not foregt the Zimmerman telegram of WWI. If war could be a just thing, then the world wars were just. There's a righteousness in those wars. We defended freedom, both at home and abroad, and against serious threats. We were fighting powers with a real military-industrial complex.

Now take this latest war. We're not really sure why we're there. There's no clean cut moralism, no clear enemy. Iraq hadn't much of an industrial base to threaten anyone but his nearest neighbors. More than defending freedom (as Iraq was a minor threat to our freedom), this war seems a blatant example of US imperialism.

And I'm paying for this war.
 
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Everything in that poem is a damn lie. We are hardly a free country. Too bad lighters can't be taken to online threads and burned like the garbage they are.
 
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Datura said:
Everything in that poem is a damn lie. We are hardly a free country. Too bad lighters can't be taken to online threads and burned like the garbage they are.
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You're free to move to any other country you'd like to if you don't feel free here. Now, that's freedom!
 
In other words: "If you don't like it here, leave!!!"

Which countries do not grant leaving and moving elsewhere?
 
Everything in that poem is a damn lie. We are hardly a free country. Too bad lighters can't be taken to online threads and burned like the garbage they are.
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Datura, what the hell is your definition of freedom? Is it general political rule that all people can mutually agree upon, or is the new definition: the unchained, demotic "lifestyle", open-minded self-obsessive nihilism? Your non servium title would imply you are a bit paranoid about the supposed suffocation of your "freedoms". Tell me what it is that you cannot do, that you are hindered from doing, what you are silenced from saying?


Provide some examples.
 
A great many people feel responsibility for others' well-being, and when such individuals come into power they attempt to do things to help those who need it. While I would not go so far as to say these were Bush's motives, as only he knows for sure (and maybe not even him), the war we are in, as well as Vietnam, were both justified, and a lot of other wars to come are as well. The people that fail to see this are those either less inclined to helping others or more inclined towards helping themselves. That is their choice, and we cannot try to force them to believe otherwise. However, they should also afford us the same respect.
 
It takes a lot of gall to say this:
Arquibus said:
However, they should also afford us the same respect.
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Right after saying this:
Arquibus said:
The people that fail to see this are those either less inclined to helping others or more inclined towards helping themselves.
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So, you accuse those who disagree with you as being selfish and operating in their own self-interest, then ask for respect for your views?
I don't think so.

Both Viet Nam and Iraq (neither of which were "wars") were fought solely for political and monetary gain, not humanitarian aid. They were both driven by the Capitalist greed of those in corrupt seats of power.
The Bush Regime claimed to be attacking Iraq to protect US not THEM. The modern Republican party, by their own admission, cares nothing about anything but our economy and protecting our citizens. It is the epitome of selfish nationalist actions. The ONLY reason to go to war (under Republican Doctine) is to protect your own citizens or for political/economic leverage.

Do you REALLY think that the Viet Nam "War" was justified?
You may be the only person I have ever heard say that.
Not only did thousands upon thousands more people suffer as a direct result of the war, but we LOST!
We gained nothing and lost FAR TOO MUCH.
How's that for humanitarian?

You can justify anything if you try hard enough and you WANT to believe it. That, however, does not make it just.

Furthermore, the poem stated that they were fought for "you and me" which is quite obviously incorrect, even according to what you were saying.

Besides, as Fraggle pointed out, the abject hubris it requires to not only interfere with other countries but insist that you know what's good for them better than they do and force it upon them is nothing short of disgusting.
 
Yes, all war is stage managed. yo are being manipulated. And this feeling you have you are free. it is a delusion. if you really look at your lot i dont thin you will find freedom atall. so i say tat and a reponse is 'well go ad live wit te Taliban' etc. but that is just a comp-arison of degrees. to make youre situation tolerable. but it still isn't free. and untill you realize that they have got you and will manipulate you and your children to fight their wars--ad nauseum

my Grandpa was in WW1. he had a hole in his side thigh the size of a fist from shrapnel. when i was a tiny kid he would tell me horrific tales of the war. how tey had to sleep stood up in trenches filled to the waist with cold muddy water, and rats running about
If you had chosen not to fight in that war they would execute you. i would have chosen that.

As for te Iraqi war. evil. not only was it illegal. they have used weaponsof mass destruction--which are also illegal--Depleted Uranium, on innocent people and children and other species etc. they also haven't warned their OWN soldiers of the danger (didn't in Gulf war 1 neither), and will not admit the cause. or help any of the huge amount of illness due to the effects of DU!...that is whatthey think you 'you who love to sacrifice your lives for your country'.......you best wake up to this and stop denying it
 
Hagar said:
Datura, what the hell is your definition of freedom? Is it general political rule that all people can mutually agree upon, or is the new definition: the unchained, demotic "lifestyle", open-minded self-obsessive nihilism? Your non servium title would imply you are a bit paranoid about the supposed suffocation of your "freedoms". Tell me what it is that you cannot do, that you are hindered from doing, what you are silenced from saying?


Provide some examples.
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Not once did I say or even suggest that I was silenced. If you want me to answer, then perhaps you should see your ad hominems to the door.
 
I do ask for respect. I am not trying to force my views on them, nor should they therefore enforce their views on me. Iraq may not have been justified by its original motives, as I originally stated, and Vietnam may not have been either, but there were justifiable causes that were faught for in both, regardless of intentions. A great many South Vietnamese did not want their country taken over by northern communists, just as a great many Iraqis did not ask to be subjugated by their dictitious warlord President, and therefore it was a just cause to help them, regardless of original intentions. In fact, if you only look at intentions of the leaders that initiated responses in wars, practically none would be justified. You have to look at all aspects, including that which you do not want to see. Just as you said any action can be argued to be justified if you work hard enough, so too can any action be criticized. That argument will not work.
Oh, and to further elaborate, while I may have called those people selfish, their is nothing wrong with selfishness. It is a survival trait.
 
Teddy Baer Hugs and Magical Wishes to you and yours. May your lives be filled with Teddy Baer Hugs and Magical Moments.
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Unfortunately, for 50,000 Americans dead in Vietnam their magical moments are over.

Our fathers fought in the first world war
Never once asking, "What are we fighting for"
Click to expand...
Maybe they did, and then died anyway. At least in WWII, everyone knew we were fighting the fascists.

Now people who will never fight
Shout out with all their might "What are we fighting for"
Click to expand...
Like John Kerry? Many people who did fight questioned the war, just like today.

What are we fighting for I've heard people say
If it were not for way we would not be free today
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Well, we lost Vietnam, are we still free?

Happy piles of napalmed babies to you and yours. I did love your other book, Theodore DaBaer Fights for the Master Race.
 
We lost Vietnam and now that nation is an oppressive regime in which outside visitation is a "guided tour" and refugees are often the victims of malnutrition, rape, and torture. Of course, the communists are just by removing political dissidents through such methods and such poverty wouldn't have existed if it were not for the evil capitalist Americans destroying their land, right?
 
Since you failed to notice: most of Asia IS communist and almsot all non-communists nations in Asia WERE communist at one point.
 
Interesting that Mama Baer hasn't responded to any of this. We all argue about this among ourselves all the time. I wonder how she feels about anything we've said. I hope we didn't scare her away.

Regarding Iraq as a menace? The world's fourth largest armed force? They spent seven years and couldn't even beat frelling IRAN, right next door! I don't see how anybody in their right mind could be worried about Iraq.
 
War is so pointless. 90% of wars are started way before they ought to be. War is a last resort, and in the case of iraq and, must I say, afganistan, it was pretty much a first resort. OMG, we were attacked, lets go out and kill everyone that looks like they might do it again. OMG, they might have weapons of mass destruction, just like us, lets go and destroy their government! We are so friggin reactive, its not even funny. As individual people, we are pretty tolerant, but as soon as we are a collective people, we are almost sociopathic. imagine beating someone up because he has a pocket knife, even though he doesn't. That is basically the whole war. After we beat him up, then we change our reasons/ make excuses, like "he was picking on my brother", which still doesn't make it okay.

On another note, whoever commented that we aren't free and got chewed out for it is right. On a deeper level then law, we aren't really free. Sometimes, even by law, we aren't completly free. Ignoring law, think about it, if you aren't PC, then you are ignored. The whole spirit of freedom is that everyone is heard, which clearly isn't the case. You can't say everything without consequence, which defines freedom. No, the consequence isn't imprisonment, torture, or whatever, but society itself puts different consequences on the radical.
 
Objectively, what did we fight for in Viet Nam?

We lost 50 some odd thousand soldiers and countless more suffer some type of disability. Eventually we left Vietnam, when the South was being overrun by the North. Life, here in America, didn't really change much --except for those who died in Vietnam or those that had to live with an injury. The soldiers that lost their life died in vain because our government would not allow the military to truly fight the war. At the time we pulled out of Vietnam we had not accomplished anything; 50,000 young men died in vain.

And ironically, the cold war ended anyway.
 
Numbers are so exxagerated. compare death by vietnam to car crashes or even the common flu, and you might be surprised to find that way too much fuss is made about modern "limited wars" death tolls.
 
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