What are poltergeists?

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And once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

Phenomena that are proven to physically exist within reality are, by definition, scientifically accepted phenomena.
 
Magical Realist said:
Nope..acknowledging the existence of spirits does not make it scientific. It doesn't make it anything. It is what it is. Only explaining spirits would make it scientific.
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Being able to detect spirits makes it scientific. "Scientific" does not mean we can explain everything. Take gravity; we don't know everything about it. But the study of gravity is quite firmly within the realm of science.

Likewise, once we can detect "spirits" through some repeatable method, the study of "spirits" will go from the realm of scary campfire stories to accepted science, as many other formerly "woo" topics have done.
 
Daecon said:
And once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

Phenomena that are proven to physically exist within reality are, by definition, scientifically accepted phenomena.
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Spirits may not have physical existence. Like thoughts, time, laws of physics, etc. And yet they would still be real beings.
 
billvon said:
Being able to detect spirits makes it scientific. "Scientific" does not mean we can explain everything. Take gravity; we don't know everything about it. But the study of gravity is quite firmly within the realm of science.

Likewise, once we can detect "spirits" through some repeatable method, the study of "spirits" will go from the realm of scary campfire stories to accepted science, as many other formerly "woo" topics have done.
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You don't need to know spirits exist thru some scientific repeatable method. In fact we already know they exist thru direct investigations and experiences. Science isn't the sole determiner of what is real iow. There are other ways to access reality than just science. Hence, knowing spirits exist, as I do myself, doesn't make them fall into the purview of science. They transcend physical reality, like mathematical equations, ideas, values, information, and laws. Like the mind itself.
 
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Magical Realist said:
You don't need to know spirits exist thru some scientific repeatable method.
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Until we do, the possibility lies totally within the realms of illusions, delusions, and ancient folk lore.
Magical Realist said:
In fact we already know they exist thru direct investigations and experiences. Science isn't the sole determiner of what is real iow.
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No we don't. Science may not be the only determiner, but it certainly is the only reasonable logic determiner.
Magical Realist said:
There are other ways to access reality than just science. Hence, knowing spirits exist, as I do myself, doesn't make them fall into the purview of science. They transcend physical reality, like mathematical equations, ideas, values, information, and laws. Like the mind itself.
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No, in actual fact all I see are delusions, illusions, gullibility, and confirmation bias.
 
Magical Realist said:
No..it would only prove a phenomenon that doesn't conform to our current level of scientific knowledge.
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One can not prove something to exist without it conforming to our current level.
Thus if we can prove it, it must conform. And it must therefore not be paranormal.
Magical Realist said:
You don't need to know spirits exist thru some scientific repeatable method. In fact we already know they exist thru direct investigations and experiences.
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Please provide a link to peer reviewed papers that clearly demonstrates the truth of the existence of "spirits"? That clearly and unambiguously proves spirits to exist, with no possible alternative and more mundane explanation?
You claim it, you need to support it.
 
One can not prove something to exist without it conforming to our current level.
Thus if we can prove it, it must conform. And it must therefore not be paranormal.
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Wrong..there are a lot of things proven to exist that don't conform to our current level of scientific knowledge. Gravity is one. Consciousness. Mathematical laws. Nonlocality. And the paranormal.

Please provide a link to peer reviewed papers that clearly demonstrates the truth of the existence of "spirits"? That clearly and unambiguously proves spirits to exist, with no possible alternative and more mundane explanation?
You claim it, you need to support it.
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LOL! So you want scientific confirmation of the paranormal when I said we know it exists without scientific confirmation? Here's confirmation of it. How about 3,287 paranormal investigation sites and their evidence?

http://www.paranormalsocieties.com/
 
There is no evidence.

Just hearsay, confirmation bias and wishful thinking.

If it was real evidence then it would already be science fact and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you several times already.
 
Daecon said:
There is no evidence.

Just hearsay, confirmation bias and wishful thinking.

If it was real evidence then it would already be science fact and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you several times already.
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And I'm pretty sure I told you already that scientists wouldn't touch paranormal phenomenon with a 10 ft pole for fear of mockery and losing their careers. In the big science club you conform to convention, or you are kicked out.
 
Magical Realist said:
You don't need to know spirits exist thru some scientific repeatable method. In fact we already know they exist thru direct investigations and experiences.
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By that standard, Santa Claus exists. Fortunately most people have higher standards.
Science isn't the sole determiner of what is real iow. There are other ways to access reality than just science.
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Science is just a tool; a tool we use to understand reality and determine which hypothesis is most likely to be correct.
Hence, knowing spirits exist, as I do myself, doesn't make them fall into the purview of science. They transcend physical reality, like mathematical equations, ideas, values, information, and laws. Like the mind itself.
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Yep. And your belief in spirits is every bit as real to you as a child's belief in Santa Claus is to them. (They even see him!) To your point, neither needs to understand science, because it is a belief, rather than an attempt to understand reality.
And I'm pretty sure I told you already that scientists wouldn't touch paranormal phenomenon with a 10 ft pole for fear of mockery and losing their careers.
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A scientist who could prove spirits exist would win a Nobel prize, guaranteed. They live to discover such things - even if what they discover angers people whose beliefs the new science contradicts.
 
Magical Realist said:
And I'm pretty sure I told you already that scientists wouldn't touch paranormal phenomenon with a 10 ft pole for fear of mockery and losing their careers. In the big science club you conform to convention, or you are kicked out.
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Why on Earth would you think that if you weren't paranoid or stupid?

Science would LOVE to have conclusive impossible-to-ignore evidence of things like psychics, aliens, bigfoot, ghosts, Loch Ness monsters, and so on.

It would be like the discovery of DNA, or relativity, or electricity, and so on. Just imagne the breakthroughs that would be made in fields such as palentology, xenobiology, neuroscience, and everything else.

It would open up a whole new area of the Universe to learn everything about, fields of study to gain a deeper understanding of how reality works. Science really, really, really, wants to know more about how reality and the Universe works.

Forget Einstein, Newton, Hawking, Darwin and all of those guys - the person who proves the existence of life after death will become a million times more famous!

The idea that science doesn't want to know things is ridiculous.
 
Daecon said:
Why on Earth would you think that if you weren't paranoid or stupid?

Science would LOVE to have conclusive impossible-to-ignore evidence of things like psychics, aliens, bigfoot, ghosts, Loch Ness monsters, and so on.

It would be like the discovery of DNA, or relativity, or electricity, and so on. Just imagne the breakthroughs that would be made in fields such as palentology, xenobiology, neuroscience, and everything else.

It would open up a whole new area of the Universe to learn everything about, fields of study to gain a deeper understanding of how reality works. Science really, really, really, wants to know more about how reality and the Universe works.

Forget Einstein, Newton, Hawking, Darwin and all of those guys - the person who proves the existence of life after death will become a million times more famous!

The idea that science doesn't want to know things is ridiculous.
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It's just the way science is. It's a prestige or status thing. Certain areas you research to get grants and publishers. Others you stay away from. The paranormal is one of those areas.
 
Yeah, because you're OBVIOUSLY an expert on science and the scientific method! :rolleyes:
 
Sure, except your idea of "debating" is sticking your fingers in your ears going "la-la-la I can't hear you".
 
Don't you mean "you're"?

You really don't give the impression that you care much for the scientific method as it is, so take a few licks and come back with rigor.
 
Just because you can't be persuaded, doesn't mean you're right.

It just means you're incapable of being reasoned with.
 
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