Amen and Amen!!!!
"We've come to take our government back" Rand Paul
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Amen and Amen!!!!
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Yes, from a liberal, I have been dealing with insults over my service from Liberals and Democrats like you from the day I returned to this Country from Vietnam, and I find your brand of dishonest fanaticism a greater disgrace to the nation and its armed services than anything by John Kerry (who served in Vietnam) for 90 days.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Yes joe explain how John Kerry (who served in Vietnam) knew He was being shot at in Cambodia, by a originazation who didn't offically exist until 1977?
Are you ever honest?
This isn't about your service, Mr. Roam. This is about your dishonesty, immature sniveling, and persistent belligerence. To the other, maybe that's just what war does to people? Then again, for all we know, your "service" might be just another lie. I don't know, Mr. Roam, how do you excuse yourself?
Seriously, man, are you ever honest? Or does that notion simply transcend your faculties?
Buffalo Roam said:
This isn't about your service, Mr. Roam. This is about your dishonesty, immature sniveling, and persistent belligerence. To the other, maybe that's just what war does to people? Then again, for all we know, your "service" might be just another lie. I don't know, Mr. Roam, how do you excuse yourself?
Seriously, man, are you ever honest? Or does that notion simply transcend your faculties?
Just for the record, swift boats did operate alone in Vietnam and in squadrons
of swift boats. And Kerry was cited for the Silver Star by his commanding officer.
Does this fellow have a name? I wonder why you don't render it...especially since the fellows Kerry served with is on the record...and there were no Air Force officers on the list.
And two where is your evidence that Kerry abandoned his post? There is none and your version of events along with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth just happens to run contrary to the written evidence recorded at the time in additon to the testimony of the men who served with Kerry...on his boat and were present and in actual combat with Kerry as there CO.
I still await your responses to the challenges? Show where Kerry did anything wrong or undeserving of the many awards he received in Vietnam.
http://www.factcheck.org/miscreports240.html
Where is the evidence to support your many allegations here? To date, you have offered NO proof...just more lies and smears.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Tiassa take it up with joe, he is the one who brought Kerry into this debate for His own purposes.
Keep throwing stones, Johnny Jihad
Perhaps, Mr. Roam, you should, oh, I don't know, maybe pay attention?
Post #2548469 is #132 in this thread, which comes after #131. And that post, sir—#131—is mine, and the first mention of the Swift Boat controversy.
Indeed, if you actually pay attention, you'll notice that I raised the Swift Boat issue in reference to an old Rob Corddry joke on The Daily Show as a consideration of Omega133's outlook on the media. And if you pay attention, you'll notice that Joe's discussion of the Swift Boat controversy pertains to the the same statements by Omega133. One can reasonably assert that he was filling in the blanks around my invocation of the issue.
Really, Mr. Roam, you have the appearance of being so caught up in your own private jihad against Joe that you actually have no idea what's going on in this discussion.
So keep trolling all you want, Mr. Roam. It doesn't change the fact that, once again, you have missed the point and seek to drag yet another thread off topic in order to pursue your pathetic jihad. Throw another stone, miss another target.
Buffalo Roam said:
Perhaps, Mr. Roam, you should, oh, I don't know, maybe pay attention?
Post #2548469 is #132 in this thread, which comes after #131. And that post, sir—#131—is mine, and the first mention of the Swift Boat controversy.
Indeed, if you actually pay attention, you'll notice that I raised the Swift Boat issue in reference to an old Rob Corddry joke on The Daily Show as a consideration of Omega133's outlook on the media. And if you pay attention, you'll notice that Joe's discussion of the Swift Boat controversy pertains to the the same statements by Omega133. One can reasonably assert that he was filling in the blanks around my invocation of the issue.
Really, Mr. Roam, you have the appearance of being so caught up in your own private jihad against Joe that you actually have no idea what's going on in this discussion.
So keep trolling all you want, Mr. Roam. It doesn't change the fact that, once again, you have missed the point and seek to drag yet another thread off topic in order to pursue your pathetic jihad. Throw another stone, miss another target.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
joe, were is the post for the Commander of a Naval Vessel during a engagement with the enemy?
Running around on shore chasing down wounded enemy combatants?
And you claim to be a Veteran?
No, where He should be is Commanding His ship, and directing the forces under His command, even a lowly Platoon Sergeant know that, in fact as a Platoon Sergeant, my job isn't to be the first shooter, my job is to carry out the orders of the Platoon Leader and command the actions of my men to use them to the best advantage to destroy the enemy, and only as a last resort am I to become engaged as necessary to the action.
The Navy hasn't yet to go Star Trek, where a ships only purpose, is nothing more than to deliver a Capt. to the action so He can engage the enemy in single combat and have all the ladies drop their panties for Him, when He reembarks.
Sorry I screwed up a word, John Kerry wrote up His own incident reports and forwarded them, and then requested that citations be issued.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
:roflmao:
More useful issues, like the Heidi Bowl
Well, wasn't that digression fun? Anyway, returning to more useful issues:
Sounds about right. Unfortunately, the infamous Heidi Bowl seems to have had more of an effect on American media.
And this seems to be at the heart of why the politics are getting so contentious. To the one, there is political spin, like we saw in Richard Blumenthal's pathetic press conference last week. To the other, there is outright bullshit, like Palin's "Death Panels", or most of the Tea Party's talking points.
For the most part, our discussion so far seems to be identifying various points on a curve, but the Tea Party—allegedly one of the topics of this thread—is a genuinely anomalous deviation. One aspect of the whole issue, nationwide even, that has people so frustrated about the Tea Party is that we're somehow supposed to pretend that this is a legitimate, mainstream movement when, in fact, its inertia results from deluded rabble-rousing. From the outset:
David Horsey, SeattlePI.com, April 17, 2009
David Horsey, SeattlePI.com, May 19, 2010
The Tea Party outlook isn't healthy, for the individual or society. And some are unsettled by the proposition that we should entertain, and thus enable, such dysfunction.
A common aphorism is that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", but the problem here is that the Tea Party is squeaking for the sake of squeaking. It is almost entirely a negative identification, and what affirmations we have from the movement are very much reminiscent of Reagan's GOP.
They are a disgrace to their namesake, and that's fine as far as it goes. But it doesn't stop there. We're all expected to go along for the ride.
What we are enduring presently are the pangs of a former ideological majority, having reached its logical dead end, and frightened silly of the idea that they are merely equal to their neighbors.
____________________
Notes:
Wikipedia. "Heidi Game". May 19, 2010. Wikipedia.org. May 23, 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi_Game
Well, wasn't that digression fun? Anyway, returning to more useful issues:
Omega133 said:
Sounds about right. Unfortunately, the infamous Heidi Bowl seems to have had more of an effect on American media.
And this seems to be at the heart of why the politics are getting so contentious. To the one, there is political spin, like we saw in Richard Blumenthal's pathetic press conference last week. To the other, there is outright bullshit, like Palin's "Death Panels", or most of the Tea Party's talking points.
For the most part, our discussion so far seems to be identifying various points on a curve, but the Tea Party—allegedly one of the topics of this thread—is a genuinely anomalous deviation. One aspect of the whole issue, nationwide even, that has people so frustrated about the Tea Party is that we're somehow supposed to pretend that this is a legitimate, mainstream movement when, in fact, its inertia results from deluded rabble-rousing. From the outset:
David Horsey, SeattlePI.com, April 17, 2009
David Horsey, SeattlePI.com, May 19, 2010
The Tea Party outlook isn't healthy, for the individual or society. And some are unsettled by the proposition that we should entertain, and thus enable, such dysfunction.
A common aphorism is that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", but the problem here is that the Tea Party is squeaking for the sake of squeaking. It is almost entirely a negative identification, and what affirmations we have from the movement are very much reminiscent of Reagan's GOP.
They are a disgrace to their namesake, and that's fine as far as it goes. But it doesn't stop there. We're all expected to go along for the ride.
What we are enduring presently are the pangs of a former ideological majority, having reached its logical dead end, and frightened silly of the idea that they are merely equal to their neighbors.
____________________
Notes:
Wikipedia. "Heidi Game". May 19, 2010. Wikipedia.org. May 23, 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi_Game
You see Buffalo Roam if there was some shred of evidence that Kerry diserted his post, he should have the book thrown at him. But here is the thing, you have yet to prove anything of your claims.
I repeat my challenge to you, show some shred of evidence for your many outrageous claims against Kerry. Isn't it funny that for all of the attention this issue has received, no one including yourself has been able to come up with one shred of evidence to prove your many outrageous claims?
Just making stuff up that you want to be true does not qualify as truth in the normal world. And show me where Kerry requested that he be wrote up for the Silver Star as you claim?
Omega, I think you have seen a good example of the differences between the Republican Party/Tea Party leadership and the non Republican/Tea Party movement in The United States.
Deception and lies are a critical part of the Republican/Tea Party agenda. What I find most disturbing about the movement (at least the more vocal members of this group) is that it is so intolerant of truth and thoughts that are not strictly along party line.
What we need in this country is some honest discourse. We need to stop the politics of fear. And we need to come together as a people to work together to solve our very critical problems. If we do not, we will just become cannon fodder for the special interests that have been running this country into the ground.
Instead of Republicans and Tea Partiers shouting at Democrats, maybe it would be a good time to listen to them. They are not all that radical. The Democratic Party to day and for the last 2 decades has been far more fiscally conservative than the Republicans. But you are never going to know that if no one takes a moment to listen, look around and learn and then act. Let's all act rationally and together.
Deception and lies are a critical part of the Republican/Tea Party agenda. What I find most disturbing about the movement (at least the more vocal members of this group) is that it is so intolerant of truth and thoughts that are not strictly along party line.
What we need in this country is some honest discourse. We need to stop the politics of fear. And we need to come together as a people to work together to solve our very critical problems. If we do not, we will just become cannon fodder for the special interests that have been running this country into the ground.
Instead of Republicans and Tea Partiers shouting at Democrats, maybe it would be a good time to listen to them. They are not all that radical. The Democratic Party to day and for the last 2 decades has been far more fiscally conservative than the Republicans. But you are never going to know that if no one takes a moment to listen, look around and learn and then act. Let's all act rationally and together.
Aye, that I have.
This statement has one problem with it: All politicians lie. Democrat, Republican, whatever. It's a bad trait that unfortunately is now norm for alot of politicians. If all politicians could stop lying, it would be the best thing to hit this country since Freedom.
This I agree with. But the problem is actually doing it.
And vise versa.
While i'll agree that there are good Democrats out there, all sorts of belief systems have radicals. History has taught us that. The abolitionists had John Brown, the Nazis had Hitler, the Socialists had Lenin, etc.
We can only hope, that this idea will catch on.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
joe, I have, but you just keep covering you eyes and denying that your precious John John, is a lying political dick, who went to Vietnam for a great combat story ( He wanted to be another JFK) to shore up His political career, and then get out of the danger zone as fast as His P{Purple Hearts would carry him.
joe, I flew those area, daily, for several months, I flew CNC for the Brown Water Navy, had the Commanders of the units on board, doing areal recon, and there is no way, even the maps will back that up for Kerry to get from His base into Cambodia on the Mekong.
The biggest mistake that tell me Kerry is lying is that He claims that the Khmer Rouge were shooting at him in 1968, they didn't exist then, they were not identified in any intelligence briefing, or mission report that I ever attended, and every mission briefing contained threat assessments of opposing forces, who they were and what they had.
joe, as commander of the boat, it was Kerrys job to write up the mission reports, no one else, and those reports are what awards are based on, or didn't you know that?
Hay joe, I found John Kerrys DD214, I didn't know that the Silver Star was issued with a V for Valor?
The Silver Star is already a award for Valor in Combat, no V for Valor are issued on them, and never have been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valor_device
The Valor device (also known as a combat distinguishing device, "V" device, and Combat V) is an award of the United States military which is a bronze attachment to certain medals to indicate that it was received for valor. The device serves as a clarification for medals that are awarded for both valor (bravery in the face of the enemy), and merit (an extraordinary job under noncombat conditions).
Awards which are regularly bestowed for valor, such as the Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross, Air Force Cross and Silver Star are never awarded with the Valor device since valor is indicated by the award itself.
They don't lie equivalently.omega said:
Russ Feingold does not lie the way John Boehner does, say. Nobody in the entire Democratic Party national leadership lies the way Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, or Dick Cheney, do.
The Republican Party since Reagan has been taken over by people who lie flagrantly, about physical fact and sequences of events as well as their own beliefs or political stances, as a deliberate tactic for gaining power by damaging the country's governance other than through them. They have adopted the tactic of the Big Lie, without regard for its effect on the ability of the government to govern well, for gain in power.
Newt Gingrich, for example, is well and relevantly educated, and knows what socialism is. When he describes Obama as a socialist, he is lying, not ignorant. And that lie does real damage.
You still have yet to prove Kerry made the statements you attribute to him or any of the many claims you made against him. And what makes you think the DD-214 you represent as Kerry's is real? What proof do you have that it is real.
Evidently your briefings were inadequate. The Khmer Rouge existed way before 1968, going hand-in-hand with the Communist Party which by 1968 already had a long history in Cambodia. In fact it was around 1968 that the Khmer Rouge were particularly active, beginning the push for complete control.
Well you seem like a reasonable person, believe what you will. But I encourage you to listen to all sides, keep an open mind and always be willing to learn something new.
And never, ever outsource your thinking to someone else. Too much blood has been shed to give you the right to believe what you will and to make choices. We owe it to our forefathers to excercise the duties and freedoms we have inherited responsibly.
So while we may not always agree. We should always respect each other, listen to each other and be willing to learn from each other.
Reason, logic, and cynicism, among other notes
It's reasonable enough to accept that the form is real. The more important questions in resolving Mr. Roam's crusade are, "Who typed it? Who signed it if the form is erroneous? And why?" Of all the people involved in the communication, assessment, and deliverance of awards, apparently only John Kerry could ever be in error.
You'll notice that Mr. Roam sometimes treats life as if it was a novel. That is, if you read novels, you'll eventually notice that aside from some very deliberate occasions of, "Er", "Uh", and general stammering, characters in novels speak much more cleanly than real people. Additionally, they rarely make certain sorts of errors, because explaining them in order to avoid confusing the reader wastes enough words that editors generally won't tolerate it. Thus, when Mr. Roam makes his argument about the Khmer Rouge, he avoids the central issue, which was whether Kerry ever entered Cambodia, or whether one hundred fifty yards was close enough to the border that he might have taken fire from the other side. If Mr. Roam's complaint was all there was to the issue, the answer would simply be that Senator Kerry, twenty-eight years after the fact, used incorrect terminology to describe his memories. And while people do this all the time—I have memories of watching television programs in an old house, even though I know those programs aired, in some cases, years after I moved out—it's not the sort of thing that gets written into novels. Thus—
—is the only explanation for the statement. Additionally, the term "Khmer Rouge" was allegedly coined by deposed King Norodom Sihanouk, who ruled Cambodia from 1941-55. Indeed, as I look around the web, it seems only Mr. Roam believes the Khmer Rouge did not publicly exist by that name until 1977. Perhaps he should explain the sources of his claim.
While the cynicism you show Mr. Roam might suit his comprehension, it does not necessarily reflect genuine and legitimate logical consideration. I can only urge you to not allow someone you believe so erroneous assert such influence over the terminology and framing of the discussion.
Joepistole said:
It's reasonable enough to accept that the form is real. The more important questions in resolving Mr. Roam's crusade are, "Who typed it? Who signed it if the form is erroneous? And why?" Of all the people involved in the communication, assessment, and deliverance of awards, apparently only John Kerry could ever be in error.
You'll notice that Mr. Roam sometimes treats life as if it was a novel. That is, if you read novels, you'll eventually notice that aside from some very deliberate occasions of, "Er", "Uh", and general stammering, characters in novels speak much more cleanly than real people. Additionally, they rarely make certain sorts of errors, because explaining them in order to avoid confusing the reader wastes enough words that editors generally won't tolerate it. Thus, when Mr. Roam makes his argument about the Khmer Rouge, he avoids the central issue, which was whether Kerry ever entered Cambodia, or whether one hundred fifty yards was close enough to the border that he might have taken fire from the other side. If Mr. Roam's complaint was all there was to the issue, the answer would simply be that Senator Kerry, twenty-eight years after the fact, used incorrect terminology to describe his memories. And while people do this all the time—I have memories of watching television programs in an old house, even though I know those programs aired, in some cases, years after I moved out—it's not the sort of thing that gets written into novels. Thus—
"So Kerry could not have even known of the of the Khmer Rouge, unless he was a party member in 1968, they didn't acknowledge that name till 11 years after Kerry left country."
—is the only explanation for the statement. Additionally, the term "Khmer Rouge" was allegedly coined by deposed King Norodom Sihanouk, who ruled Cambodia from 1941-55. Indeed, as I look around the web, it seems only Mr. Roam believes the Khmer Rouge did not publicly exist by that name until 1977. Perhaps he should explain the sources of his claim.
While the cynicism you show Mr. Roam might suit his comprehension, it does not necessarily reflect genuine and legitimate logical consideration. I can only urge you to not allow someone you believe so erroneous assert such influence over the terminology and framing of the discussion.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
joe---:roflmao: