Was there a beginning?

kx000 said:
Life has always been, and life is the miracle of one infinity, like God in the endless universe of angels and people.
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Even though big bang model is too geocentric, our current representation of particle horizon looks exactly like an image a monk drew in 1245 AD, which some say is the original multiverse theory :)

There's nothing new under the sun.
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DaveC426913 said:
No. There IS no outside.
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There is no outside regarding the Big Bang Theory in that it doesn't address that. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say we don't know if it makes sense to talk about "outside" in the context of this theory. It's only describing "inside" and "inside" may be everything (or not).

If there are multi-verses (and we don't know the answer to that one way or the other) then "outside" would have a meaning, right (not regarding what it is expanding into since, as you say, space itself is expanding, but there could be an "outside")?
 
I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E said:
Is that not what I said? That the universe is infinite...

You seem to lack mathematical expression for dealing with infinity.

If you are content with playing with the toys they give you so be it... don't ask questions just stay in your box.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2014.0025
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This paper is quite entertaining. I only knew of Grosseteste as Bishop of Lincoln, theologian and head, in some capacity, of my old university.

It reminds one of the "atoms" of Democritus, in that similar ideas sometimes recur in the history of philosophy and science after long time intervals.

But I don't see why you need to be rude.
 
Seattle said:
There is no outside regarding the Big Bang Theory in that it doesn't address that. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say we don't know if it makes sense to talk about "outside" in the context of this theory. It's only describing "inside" and "inside" may be everything (or not).

If there are multi-verses (and we don't know the answer to that one way or the other) then "outside" would have a meaning, right (not regarding what it is expanding into since, as you say, space itself is expanding, but there could be an "outside")?
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As far as we understand it, the spatial dimensions and the time dimension were created by the expansion, of which the Big Bang was part.
Before that, we think those dimensions didn't exist.
So, the BB can't happen "inside" anything, if "inside" (and "outside") didn't exist.
 
DaveC426913 said:
As far as we understand it, the spatial dimensions and the time dimension were created by the expansion, of which the Big Bang was part.
Before that, we think those dimensions didn't exist.
So, the BB can't happen "inside" anything, if "inside" (and "outside") didn't exist.
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Would our Universe sphere be enlarged when suns began to emit light?

The stars we see from the outer limit of our ability, greatly enhanced now with the James Webb telescope, obviously sent their light out in an expanding balloon format

The other side of the expanding format we are unable to see would be expanding into the outside (now that our Universe has created a outside)

So a ray of light calculated to be, say 13 billion light years distant, would have a twin light ray heading 180° in opposite direction

That would give our Universe a coat of light waves 13 billion light years thick

Do we count that coat of light waves as being part of our Universe? or because it is only electromagnetic radiation with no solid stuff in it, we don't count it?

:)
 
Seattle said:
Asking "was there a beginning" has no meaning. The Universe has always existed in one form or another, IMO, almost by definition.
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The definition is the thing here, isn't it?

The word "universe" can be used to mean, loosely, "everything that exists or has ever existed". Or it can mean something like "the whole of space and time".

The former definition might encompass a "multiverse", if such a thing exists. Possibly that has existed "in one form or other", always. But if the latter definition is used, then we know that our current spacetime has existed for only 13.6 billion years - i.e. since the big bang.
The Big Bang phase change occurred 13 billion years ago.
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Phase change?
Before that we haven't a clue but it could have occurred due to the ending of another Universe.
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The term "another universe" implies that you are imagining something beyond what we can currently measure or perceive.
The idea of a Creator is nonsense...
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The idea isn't nonsense. The problem is just that there's no good evidence for a Creator.
I don't believe in infinity and the multiple versions of yourself, somewhere, in some other world either.
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Do you mean you think there aren't multiple versions of yourself, or are you just not convinced that there are? Those are two different positions. If you take the first position, I'd like to know your reasons.
If we don't know, it's ridiculous to think that the answer was infinity of time. Infinity, and the strange conclusions you could draw from that, is just a mathematical construct that has no place in reality, IMO, in the way it has been used.
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All this is speculation on your part, though. Agree?
 
Michael 345 said:
Would our Universe sphere be enlarged when suns began to emit light?
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Sphere?

Are you talking about the visible universe, or the universe?
The stars we see from the outer limit of our ability, greatly enhanced now with the James Webb telescope, obviously sent their light out in an expanding balloon format

The other side of the expanding format we are unable to see would be expanding into the outside (now that our Universe has created a outside)

So a ray of light calculated to be, say 13 billion light years distant, would have a twin light ray heading 180° in opposite direction
Click to expand...
Yes, but we can't see the light that is headed the "wrong" way. We only see light that reaches us.
That would give our Universe a coat of light waves 13 billion light years thick
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I think that, possibly, you're making the mistake of imagining the universe as a sphere that expanded out from a single point in space. It isn't like that. The expansion of space is not an expansion in space. It is quite possible that the universe was infinitely large from the start. Of course, that doesn't stop it expanding.
Do we count that coat of light waves as being part of our Universe? or because it is only electromagnetic radiation with no solid stuff in it, we don't count it?
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Photons are counted as being part of the universe.
 
James R said:
The definition is the thing here, isn't it?

The word "universe" can be used to mean, loosely, "everything that exists or has ever existed". Or it can mean something like "the whole of space and time".

The former definition might encompass a "multiverse", if such a thing exists. Possibly that has existed "in one form or other", always. But if the latter definition is used, then we know that our current spacetime has existed for only 13.6 billion years - i.e. since the big bang.

Phase change?

The term "another universe" implies that you are imagining something beyond what we can currently measure or perceive.

The idea isn't nonsense. The problem is just that there's no good evidence for a Creator.

Do you mean you think there aren't multiple versions of yourself, or are you just not convinced that there are? Those are two different positions. If you take the first position, I'd like to know your reasons.

All this is speculation on your part, though. Agree?
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Everything from before the Big Bang is just speculation.
 
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