Warp speed space travel and GR:

[danshawen]

A quote from the article you linked in the OP"

"Empty space itself has a negative energy density. The big question is if we could mine it and shape it, we would basically have a warp drive there and then, but we just don't know if that's possible."

I tried to verify just part of that statement from the Wikipedia article on vacuum energy. In part it said:

"the exact nature of the particles (or fields) that generate vacuum energy, with a density such as that required by inflation theory, remains a mystery."

So, no matter which way you cut it, the article that was linked in the OP, like the corresponding Wikipedia equivalent, said nothing about nothing.

Why couldn't either of you (paddoboy or brucep) just say something along those lines? Did you even read / understand it? I know you are both much better than you have evidenced here. You'd pretty much have to be.

 

[paddoboy]

Who is it that is moving the subject to discussion of other threads? Can't you answer a direct question about THIS one? As I recall, Eugene did, and not just once. You may not have liked the answers. Neither did I, but I wasn't about to cut him off because he stood to learn something from the discussion. You, on the other hand, seem to have a mind set in concrete, to go along with a range of responses so limited, I could list most of them on a single page shorter than most OPs. I actually did that once. The list hasn't gotten very much longer.

The thread was moved because as is the case with most religious/alternative hypothesis nuts and pushers, they were obviously in the wrong section, presumably to at least add a semblance of credibility to their agendas.
You obviously are attracted to that type of dishonesty.

On the other hand, it does nicely explain the mindset you seem to have. It rather strongly resembles a religion, FYI, and not in a complementary fashion.

It's you my friend that has the foolish mind set in more ways than one.....your Maverick persona, just for sake of it and with no qualifications worth talking about.....your white knight agenda in protecting the above religious/alternative poor troubled souls trying to gain some recognition.

Unless you have missed it, there are a lot more bozos that have boarded that particular bus than just the three we started with. The internet is full of people claiming exactly the same thing now, which means my job in that respect is done. I only wanted it to be more carefully considered, because it is the alternative (a massless or massive graviton) that makes no real sense. I don't care if someone thinks they found that symmetry. No new predictions have been forthcoming about gravitation for a very long time, 1918, to be specific. It was long overdue for a reboot.

Sure we have a lot more Bozo's, yourself included. The reason being is that these forums are the only outlet said Bozos have for their pseudoscientific nonsense and agendas, and this one in particular caters for their needs.
They, [and you] make no difference to academia and what mainstream science
accepts based on the scientific method criteria.
And claiming your job is done is laughable, really.

Anything revolutionary, new or revealing, won't be coming from the would be's if they could be's clambering to post their collective ignorances on science forums. It will be achieved properly through proper observations, proper interpretations, the scientific method and peer review.
Your fame for this "job"you claim as being done, spreads no further than this and maybe one or two other science forums, where they and you are treated as objects of curiosity to put it kindly.

Do better

 

[paddoboy]

Why couldn't either of you (paddoboy or brucep) just say something along those lines? Did you even read / understand it? I know you are both much better than you have evidenced here. You'd pretty much have to be.

Did you ever understand it?
Did you ever understand that the article and the many other reputable people that have spoken on this subject like Kip Thorne and Carl Sagan, and Michio Kaku, speculate governed by what we already know, the laws of physics and GR.
Perhaps if you weren't so laden with baggage and drooling such vitriol against the likes of Thorne, and approached the subject in a level headed manner, you may be able to come up with something that remotely resembles what they are saying.
In the mean time, you'll just keep on keeping on.

 

[danshawen]

you may be able to come up with something that remotely resembles what they are saying.

That would be plagiarism. I understand what they are saying just fine, when they actually do. Professor Geraint Lewis said exactly nothing here.

I apologize if my initial reaction to what he said was too negative. I'm certain he probably is a good guy to have in a science discussion.

 

[paddoboy]

Who is it that is moving the subject to discussion of other threads? Can't you answer a direct question about THIS one? As I recall, Eugene did, and not just once. You may not have liked the answers. Neither did I, but I wasn't about to cut him off because he stood to learn something from the discussion. You, on the other hand, seem to have a mind set in concrete, to go along with a range of responses so limited, I could list most of them on a single page shorter than most OPs. I actually did that once. The list hasn't gotten very much longer.

It's you my friend that has the foolish mind set in more ways than one.....your Maverick persona, just for sake of it and with no qualifications worth talking about.....your white knight agenda in protecting the above religious/alternative poor troubled souls trying to gain some recognition.

↑

Unless you have missed it, there are a lot more bozos that have boarded that particular bus than just the three we started with. The internet is full of people claiming exactly the same thing now, which means my job in that respect is done. I only wanted it to be more carefully considered, because it is the alternative (a massless or massive graviton) that makes no real sense. I don't care if someone thinks they found that symmetry. No new predictions have been forthcoming about gravitation for a very long time, 1918, to be specific. It was long overdue for a reboot.
​

Sure we have a lot more Bozo's, yourself included. The reason being is that these forums are the only outlet said Bozos have for their pseudoscientific nonsense and agendas, and this one in particular caters for their needs.
They, [and you] make no difference to academia and what mainstream science
accepts based on the scientific method criteria.
And claiming your job is done is laughable, really.

Anything revolutionary, new or revealing, won't be coming from the would be's if they could be's clambering to post their collective ignorances on science forums. It will be achieved properly through proper observations, proper interpretations, the scientific method and peer review.
Your fame for this "job"you claim as being done, spreads no further than this and maybe one or two other science forums, where they and you are treated as objects of curiosity to put it kindly.

Do better​

 

[paddoboy]

That would be plagiarism. I understand what they are saying just fine, when they actually do. Professor Geraint Lewis said exactly nothing here.

I apologize if my initial reaction to what he said was too negative. I'm certain he probably is a good guy to have in a science discussion.

Professor Lewis was speculating you foolish person, just as Kip and CARL and Michio have done a decade before. But their collective speculative scenarios are based on what we already know and the laws of physics and GR.
You are so blinkered, so laden down with other agendas that you are making a fool of yourself.
Apologies not necessary btw, I'm not on that familiar terms with the professor, I just see it as outrageous seeing him or Kip, having to cop your childish vitriol tainted outbursts, even if like the other cranks, they are confined to this forum.

 

[danshawen]

And claiming your job is done is laughable, really.

All the way to the bank.

Even Matt Strassler (where I contacted the two colleagues who wanted to discuss it in more depth) changed his tune about Higgs and gravity a bit, which was a shock because initially he was dead set against anything resembling what I now see routinely discussed virtually everywhere. It isn't a perfect fit either, but with enough of us looking over the other ways it might work, the chances are better we might find the piece that's missing.

My name is seldom mentioned in connection with any of this, and that's how I prefer it.

Revolutionary bits of science never happen unless someone looks for and makes the connection.

 

[paddoboy]

Some reputable people far more qualified than our online Bozos, see warp drive as more than just highly speculative.....
https://tauzero.aero/news
Why Warp Drives Aren’t Just Science Fiction

Astrophysicist Eric Davis is one of the leaders in the field of faster-than-light (FTL) space travel. But for Davis, humanity's potential to explore the vastness of space at warp speed is not science fiction. Davis' latest study, "Faster-Than-Light Space Warps, Status and Next Steps" won the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' (AIAA) 2013 Best Paper Award for Nuclear and Future Flight Propulsion.

 

[danshawen]

Professor Lewis was speculating you foolish person

The universe of people you seem to think are capable or worthy of speculating on science needs to expand a bit paddoboy. There are some really sharp folks right here. I'm sure of it because I occasionally have the privilege to converse with them, just as you do. I've seen them make mistakes. We all do. It isn't a crime.

 

[paddoboy]

My name is seldom mentioned in connection with any of this, and that's how I prefer it.

That's what most of our "would be's if they could be's" say. Seems delusions are rife among the fringe brigade.

 

[danshawen]

https://tauzero.aero/news

There is a short blurb there about Eric Davis, but the link to it is dead.

Try this one:

http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/2...er-than-light-space-warps-whats-it-all-about/

From the article:

"Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity predicts two types of faster-than-light (FTL) space warps that can achieve these goals: Traversable wormholes, and warp drives. Implementation of FTL space warps requires the use of so-called “exotic” matter to engineer spacetime into very specialized local geometries."

I did ask you earlier if your first link "negative energy density" and "exotic matter" were related, and you have answered the question. Thanks.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...ve-remains-long-on-speculation-short-on-proof

"Unfortunately for all involved, wishing really, really hard for a thing to be true doesn’t make it so."

 

[paddoboy]

The universe of people you seem to think are capable or worthy of speculating on science needs to expand a bit paddoboy. There are some really sharp folks right here. I'm sure of it because I occasionally have the privilege to converse with them, just as you do. I've seen them make mistakes. We all do. It isn't a crime.

My Universe of people that are capable of making considered speculative predictions are based on lots of things, but certainly not on their actions on a science forum.
Professor Lewis has not made any mistake. He makes some speculative assumptions based on the laws of physics and GR, which allow for both warp bubble FTL travel and time travel. Likewise so is Kip, Carl and Michio correct in their assumptions, based on the same laws and GR.
I've seen many of our smart arse alternative pushers here though make plenty of mistakes...particularly the four over the last 18 months or so, that claim to have a TOE.
In essence perhaps its you that needs to broaden your horizons and your Universe and realize that good speculative ideas, scientific theories, and momentous discoveries, are not going to happen here or any other science forum.

 

[paddoboy]

There is a short blurb there about Eric Davis, but the link to it is dead.

Try this one:

http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/2...er-than-light-space-warps-whats-it-all-about/

From the article:

"Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity predicts two types of faster-than-light (FTL) space warps that can achieve these goals: Traversable wormholes, and warp drives. Implementation of FTL space warps requires the use of so-called “exotic” matter to engineer spacetime into very specialized local geometries."

I did ask you earlier if your first link "negative energy density" and "exotic matter" were related, and you have answered the question. Thanks.

I'm familiar with traversable wormholes as another possible form of FTL, or as I prefer to call it, a perception of FTL travel.
Either methodology are allowed for, although as yet we have not found any wormholes.

 

[paddoboy]

. There are some really sharp folks right here. I'm sure of it because I occasionally have the privilege to converse with them, just as you do.

Yes, despite the confines and limitations of a science forum, we do have some smart people, and I know who they are.

 

[paddoboy]

http://www.space.com/21140-star-trek-warp-drive-possible.html
The Alcubierre warp drive is still theoretical for now. "The truth is that the best ideas sound crazy at first. And then there comes a time when we can't imagine a world without them." That's a statement from the 100 Year Starship organization, a think tank devoted to making Earth what "Star Trek" would call a "warp-capable civilization" within a century.


The first step toward a functional warp drive is to prove that a "warp bubble" is even possible, and that it can be artificially created.

That's exactly what physicist Harold "Sonny" White and a team of researchers at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Texas are doing right now.

 

[brucep]

Professor Lewis was speculating you foolish person, just as Kip and CARL and Michio have done a decade before. But their collective speculative scenarios are based on what we already know and the laws of physics and GR.
You are so blinkered, so laden down with other agendas that you are making a fool of yourself.
Apologies not necessary btw, I'm not on that familiar terms with the professor, I just see it as outrageous seeing him or Kip, having to cop your childish vitriol tainted outbursts, even if like the other cranks, they are confined to this forum.

Very true. We wouldn't even be talking about the warp metric if it wasn't derived from GR. To getting to use the metric for creating the geometry it predicts we have huge technical issues to find solutions for. It seems kind of silly to be a crank and not want the requirement that all the components of the metric energy must be 0 or greater to not be scientifically true. I think the better chance is for a sub light warp where the components of the metric follow the rule. Basically the FTL warp needs negative energy to hold the warp geometry from collapsing while the sub light doesn't. Both would have huge technical problems with the FTL warp exponentially greater.

 

[brucep]

There is a short blurb there about Eric Davis, but the link to it is dead.

Try this one:

http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/2...er-than-light-space-warps-whats-it-all-about/

From the article:

"Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity predicts two types of faster-than-light (FTL) space warps that can achieve these goals: Traversable wormholes, and warp drives. Implementation of FTL space warps requires the use of so-called “exotic” matter to engineer spacetime into very specialized local geometries."

I did ask you earlier if your first link "negative energy density" and "exotic matter" were related, and you have answered the question. Thanks.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...ve-remains-long-on-speculation-short-on-proof

"Unfortunately for all involved, wishing really, really hard for a thing to be true doesn’t make it so."

Why did you link the bullshit about the so called em drive? To proof how clueless you are? It has nothing to do with exotic matter which is just a cool name for negative energy. Stick to the subject. Better yet make an effort to know what you're dissing. Like I said it's time for you to act like a grown up. Clearly you don't know jack about modern physics. You've made that very clear. Subsequently you should pretty much stick a cork in it. Complaining about stuff you don't understand is what cranks do. Your knowledge of physics is an infinitesimal similar to local space time curvature. The nonsense you wrote about your hypothesis isn't even good word salad.

 

[danshawen]

...has nothing to do with exotic matter which is just a cool name for negative energy.

I seem to remember relating the two. Please tell me how can it be that IT HAS NOTHING TO DO with something IF IT IS A SYNONYM OR "COOL NAME" FOR IT?

Your writing really sucks, brucep and as a result, your insults fall very flat, and moreover, you seem to be posting text which, except for parts that you copy from other sources, are written at the level of a 13 or 14 year old. I think this is obvious to most people that read your insults. So tell us; how old are you? Do you even have a driver's license yet?

Paddoboy and I eventually picked up on the fact that Professor Geraint Lewis was not saying anything that is connected to established science. It was sheer speculation. He said so. Why didn't you pick up on this? Too busy dissing me I guess.

Also, and finally, this discussion ended yesterday and you didn't notice that either. krash661 was right; you're clueless.

 

[brucep]

All the way to the bank.

Even Matt Strassler (where I contacted the two colleagues who wanted to discuss it in more depth) changed his tune about Higgs and gravity a bit, which was a shock because initially he was dead set against anything resembling what I now see routinely discussed virtually everywhere. It isn't a perfect fit either, but with enough of us looking over the other ways it might work, the chances are better we might find the piece that's missing.

My name is seldom mentioned in connection with any of this, and that's how I prefer it.
Revolutionary bits of science never happen unless someone looks for and makes the connection.

Wow the missing piece. Why don't you tell us about the piece, or pieces, which are not missing so we can understand there relationship in scientific terms.

 

[brucep]

I seem to remember relating the two. Please tell me how can it be that IT HAS NOTHING TO DO with something IF IT IS A SYNONYM OR "COOL NAME" FOR IT?

Your writing really sucks, brucep and as a result, your insults fall very flat, and moreover, you seem to be posting text which, except for parts that you copy from other sources, are written at the level of a 13 or 14 year old. I think this is obvious to most people that read your insults. So tell us; how old are you? Do you even have a driver's license yet?

Paddoboy and I eventually picked up on the fact that Professor Geraint Lewis was not saying anything that is connected to established science. It was sheer speculation. He said so. Why didn't you pick up on this? Too busy dissing me I guess.

Also, and finally, this discussion ended yesterday and you didn't notice that either. krash661 was right; you're clueless.

You diss yourself and your comments are full of shit. The metric isn't speculation. It's a solution to the field equations derived as a prediction by the theory of general relativity. Speculation is the bullshit prediction by you that the Higgs boson is the source of gravity. Nobody in the science community, much less Professor Strassler, are interested in your juvenile delusions and lust for recognition.