Unf**king Believable, A mosque to be built at Ground Zero

[pjdude1219]

Keep trying - get some more nations to back your war of genocide, your past efforts have been an embarrassment. However, I give you 3 out of 10, instead of zero: you never denied a mosque was dumped in the Jewish Capital and in India. I say to the Hindus - Israel is a light unto the nations.

um wouldn't you have to be moral to be a light unto other nations. I'd say committing some of the owrst possible crimes a nation can kinda proclaims Israel as something other than a light unto other nations



on another note your delusions about Israel's greatness are off topic

 

[Pandaemoni]

Dead Sea Scroll has 100's of copies of all 54 Hebrew scrolls; fragments are 3000 years old.

No. They are not. They mostly date between 200 BC and 70 AD. And they are, indeed in many cases the oldest fragments of many of the Jewish texts.

This is why I have lost interest in you, you don't even know your own people's history

 

[IamJoseph]

Announcing the highly-anticipated verdict, the High Court ruled that the 2.77 acre disputed land be divided into three parts among Hindus and Muslims and held that the place where the makeshift temple of Lord Rama currently exists belongs to
Hindus.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/dissatisfied-with-verdict;-maintain-peace-jama-masjid-imam/691153/

This says all the land under the Mosque in Jerusalem belongs to the Jews - far more than the case in India. Of coz, I would not pose such a question to Muslims - I know their answer before they begin talking.

 

[IamJoseph]

um wouldn't you have to be moral to be a light unto other nations. I'd say committing some of the owrst possible crimes a nation can kinda proclaims Israel as something other than a light unto other nations



on another note your delusions about Israel's greatness are off topic

Nothing is off topoc when responding to 'YOUR' posts. Israel is among the greatest nations in Geo-History, even achieving the greatest democratic state in the most notorious region - in record time. And the IDF is unanamously seen as among the most majestic soldiers. And I'm not bragging.

 

[IamJoseph]

No. They are not. They mostly date between 200 BC and 70 AD. And they are, indeed in many cases the oldest fragments of many of the Jewish texts.

This is why I have lost interest in you, you don't even know your own people's history

200 BCE? You should say instead you lost - not lost interest in me. Thus far the oldest Hebrew is 3000 years old - and who knows what has been destroyed by the Arabs. I can produce many more than these:

The earliest known inscription in the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet was discovered on the stone on a wall at Tel Zayit, in the Beth Guvrin Valley in the lowlands of ancient Judea. The 22 letters were carved on one side of the 38 lb stone (17 kg) - which resembles a bowl on the other. Next would be the Gezer calendar dated to the late 10th century BCE. The script of the Gezer calendar bears strong resemblance to the akin contemporaneous Phoenician inscriptions from Byblos. Clear Hebrew features are visible in the scripts of the Moabite inscriptions of the Mesha Stele. The 8th-century Hebrew inscriptions exhibit many specific and exclusive traits, leading modern scholars to conclude that already in the 10th century BCE the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet was used by wide scribal circles. Even though very few 10th-century Hebrew inscriptions have been found, the quantity of the epigraphic material from the 8th century onward shows the gradual spread of literacy among the people of the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah.

In 1855 a Phoenician inscription in twenty-two lines was found among the ruins of Sidon. Each line contained about forty or fifty characters. A facsimile copy of the writing was published in United States Magazine in July 1855. The inscription was on the lid of a large stone sarcophagus carved in fine Egyptian style. The writing was primarily a genealogical history of a king of Sidon buried in the sarcophagus. It was in the Hebrew language except for a few words.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet

 

[cosmictraveler]

I didn't read all of the posts but has anyone brought up that there are 3 other mosques that have been established for over 30 years within a mile of ground zero? I was trying to understand if those mosques were already there why is this new center being so highly debated about being built? Why isn't the debate about tearing down those mosques that are already there instead? This whole thing about building something that close to ground zero when there's already Islamic building existing is just another media sensationalizing way to stir the pot of fear and hate.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Cosmic.
I haven't been on here for ages either, but the arguments seem to be increasingly unkind, so perhaps we were wise to stay away.

This is an enormous building for an Islamic Centre.
It would be one of the biggest anywhere.
But in Manhattan it could be passed without much of a glance.
It's by no means a "rubber necker".

The non-Muslim population of Manhattan may well be over-reacting,
but given recent history, their attitude is understandable.

I don't think that the rights and wrongs of this project are open to objective reason at the moment.
My gut feeling is that it should be abandoned for this generation, and possibly the next.

In a Google search, I have now found a proposed design for the building.
Not quite sure yet, but I think I like it. The design anyway.
Reminds me of something that I can't quite bring to mind just yet.
Organic, definitely. What does it remind you of?
And from the inside, with the shape of the windows the way they are, it could be stunning.

Dammit! I like the building.
So. Yes to the building.
No to the building of it.


It must be nice being a bigot (Not you Cosmic, far from it).
You never have the discomfort of changing your mind.

 

[Pandaemoni]

200 BCE? You should say instead you lost - not lost interest in me. Thus far the oldest Hebrew is 3000 years old - and who knows what has been destroyed by the Arabs. I can produce many more than these:

You were talking about the Dead Sea scrolls. They are not in Paleo-Hebrew, In fact, I already mentioned above that paleo-Hebrew has examples going back to the 10th century BCE, the Gezer calendar. Ugaritic and their literature,though, is centuries older than that, and there is no evidence apart from tradition that the Torah was around that long ago.

Your arguments are not very strong.

For example, you fetishize the fact that Hebrew is written in an alphabet. Japanses is really a stylized set of pictographs, and yet they have an advanced literature. Worse and more maddening.....UGARITIC WAS ALPHABETIC. I am not sure why you haven't figured that out, but the Jews did not invent the concept of the alphabet.

The Ugaritic alphabet is a cuneiform abjad (alphabet without vowels), used from around 15th century BCE. Although it appears similar to Mesopotamian cuneiform, it was unrelated (see Ugaritic alphabet). It is the oldest example of the family of West Semitic scripts that were used for Phoenician, Hebrew, and Aramaic.

(emphasis added) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic

 

[IamJoseph]

You were talking about the Dead Sea scrolls. They are not in Paleo-Hebrew, In fact, I already mentioned above that paleo-Hebrew has examples going back to the 10th century BCE, the Gezer calendar.
Your arguments are very unimpressive.

Yes, you did. But Paleo as your claim to fame is non-credible. The old writings context also aligns with history per se and the history of the Hebrews. This affirms we are talking about the same language and of the same people in the same region.

Ugaritic and their literature,though, is centuries older than that, and there is no evidence apart from tradition that the Torah was around that long ago.

Of course there is more evidence of the Hebrew writings as ancient, historical and contemporary - then the Ugarit, in every possible criteria. Its the Ugairit which has to match the Hebrew - not the other way around. The Hebrew has DATES, NAMES AND LOCATIONS - the Ugarit has nothing of the sort.

 

[IamJoseph]

Cosmic.
I haven't been on here for ages either, but the arguments seem to be increasingly unkind, so perhaps we were wise to stay away.

This is an enormous building for an Islamic Centre.
It would be one of the biggest anywhere.
But in Manhattan it could be passed without much of a glance.
It's by no means a "rubber necker".

The non-Muslim population of Manhattan may well be over-reacting,
but given recent history, their attitude is understandable.

I don't think that the rights and wrongs of this project are open to objective reason at the moment.
My gut feeling is that it should be abandoned for this generation, and possibly the next.

In a Google search, I have now found a proposed design for the building.
Not quite sure yet, but I think I like it. The design anyway.
Reminds me of something that I can't quite bring to mind just yet.
Organic, definitely. What does it remind you of?
And from the inside, with the shape of the windows the way they are, it could be stunning.

Dammit! I like the building.
So. Yes to the building.
No to the building of it.


It must be nice being a bigot (Not you Cosmic, far from it).
You never have the discomfort of changing your mind.

You missed out the most important factor. RECIPROCITY. Your welcome to built a mosque in Bondi and Manhattan - how about a church in Mecca?

I say:

What is hateful to you - do not unto others. Aka fairgoism.

 

[Pandaemoni]

Yes, you did. But Paleo as your claim to fame is non-credible. The old writings context also aligns with history per se and the history of the Hebrews. This affirms we are talking about the same language and of the same people in the same region.



Of course there is more evidence of the Hebrew writings as ancient, historical and contemporary - then the Ugarit, in every possible criteria. Its the Ugairit which has to match the Hebrew - not the other way around. The Hebrew has DATES, NAMES AND LOCATIONS - the Ugarit has nothing of the sort.

Actually it does have names and places, though I am not sure of any dates, I could check on that. The fact that you keep asserting it was not written in an alphabetical language is evidence that you don't really know what you are talking about though, and you are a bit confusing (I assume English is not your first language), so it seems like a waste of a weekend trying to educate you.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

You missed out the most important factor. RECIPROCITY. Your welcome to built a mosque in Bondi and Manhattan - how about a church in Mecca?

I say:

What is hateful to you - do not unto others. Aka fairgoism.

A church in Mecca? A synagogue in Mecca? A statue of the Buddah?
Of course. That would be a good thing.

Is it going to happen? No?

Would it be a good thing for some Religious organisation to try and foist it upon Muslims? No

What is it you are saying anyway?
I hope it's not some tit for tat argument.

 

[IamJoseph]

A church in Mecca? A synagogue in Mecca? A statue of the Buddah?
Of course. That would be a good thing.

Is it going to happen? No?

Would it be a good thing for some Religious organisation to try and foist it upon Muslims? No

What is it you are saying anyway?
I hope it's not some tit for tat argument.

Its not confusing, I gave a simple, stark response: RECIPROCITY. One can only turn the cheek so many times.

Take what is occuring in places like Kashmir today: Indians cannot get citizenship in Islamic states, but Muslims can have this in India. This results in a guaranteed one way population swell in one direction; next up is one side suddenly becomes selectively democratic: they demand majority decisions when their population becomes the majority. Conclusion: one side will always loose lands and one side will always gain lands. Its a guranteed recipe for war and/or genocide.

This is the story of Palestine - and a host of Christian nations who begat their lands by invasion and mass murder - are doing Heil Hitler salutes at the UN against a nation which has no such history in 4000 years. Yet Christian hearts are bleeding for the Pretend Pals in triple hank jobs: lets demand serial 2-states till there the racist occupying Zionists are none. But where are you heading with such baggage - salvation sq?

The correct principle is not to do unto others what is good for you - but its inversion: do not do unto others what is hateful to you. The correct principle, is applied, saves millions of lives and humanity. Christianity and Islam are guilty as hell. Pls deny it.

 

[pjdude1219]

Nothing is off topoc when responding to 'YOUR' posts. Israel is among the greatest nations in Geo-History, even achieving the greatest democratic state in the most notorious region - in record time. And the IDF is unanamously seen as among the most majestic soldiers. And I'm not bragging.

actually out side of begeting christianity and Islam the jewish people and their states have been nothing more than a footnote in history. and Israel is not a nation it is a state.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

The correct principle is not to do unto others what is good for you - but its inversion: do not do unto others what is hateful to you.

Well, you can't expect Jesus to get everything right.

 

[GeoffP]

Actually, iamjoe sort of misquoted that one.

Think the thread has gone off topic a bit.

 

[IamJoseph]

Well, you can't expect Jesus to get everything right.

I can be just as honest as you have. What exactly did the Gospels' version of doiing something right or saying something right, as ascribed to the figure of Jesus, refer to? I have never been given a coherent response here, and no, its not a smart alec question. I discounted the doctrine of brn in sin and all others are doomed to hell - which is clearly in contradiction of the true word of God and the judiciary laws.

My fav religion is a recently emerged Aussie one, and its called FAIRGOISM.

 

[IamJoseph]

actually out side of begeting christianity and Islam the jewish people and their states have been nothing more than a footnote in history. and Israel is not a nation it is a state.

You merit the prize for never being right.

A footnote yes, one 4000 years old and still going strong, controlling the most cherished real estate in the universe - one with no oil and very tiny, and a robber called Islam thinks dumping a mosque in Jerusalem makes this their possession. No it does not and never will, no matter what tricks are perpetrated at the UN Madarassa.

Israel IS a nation, in fact the first recorded one in history. I know of no nation, including older and mightier ones, which have actually recorded their formation as a nation, how it graduated from a tribal family, than a community into a nation: its first recording is in the Hebrew bible, written 1000's of years ago, immediately followed by the first scientific cencus with sub-totals of age and gender. Here, for the first time, the term 'NATION OF ISRAEL' ['AAM YISRAEL'] is used and this term applied throughout the rest of the Hebrew bible. So I have recorded proof why Israel IS a nation - and you have BS. You are manifestly and proven to be a raving nut case - and worse.

Why do Muslims care about which is a nation? Because they are never short of genocidally inclined premises. Muslims think they are doing Jews a favor by saying they are only against Israel and Zionists - then they are doing a favor to all non-Muslims by granting them the joy of being Dhimmies - placed between their left foot's big toes. Thanks - same to you too, coz you constitute the most unproductive people on the planet - despite robbing lands and controlling oil for nought. You cannot even produce chumous or mathsticks anymore.

MOSES WAS NOT A MUSLIM BUT THE FIRST ZIONIST.

 

[keith1]

Actually, iamjoe sort of misquoted that one.

Think the thread has gone off topic a bit.

Do unto others (ignore them) as you would have them do unto you (leave you alone).
:facepalm:

 

[IamJoseph]

Keeping the bastards honest - from the mouth of a Christian Arab, who knows first hand, from to hell and back:

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