Trumping Toward War: The United States, American Conservatism, and Iran

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Tiassa, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    #trumpswindle | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    Reminder: Cartoon by Chris Britt, 4 April 2015.

    A single paragraph, authored by Barbie Latza Nadeau↱, correspondent to The Daily Beast:

    Yutaka Katada, the owner of one of the stricken oil tankers crippled in explosions in the Gulf of Oman on Thursday, says the U.S. is wrong about the way the attack was carried out. Speaking at a press conference in Tokyo on Friday, he contradicted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and the U.S. Navy, which released a video that purports to show an Iranian patrol boat removing a limpet mine from the port side of the Kokuka Courageous. Katada said his ship was attacked on the starboard side by a flying object, not by a mine. “It seems that something flew towards them. That created the hole, is the report I’ve received,” Katada said, according to the Financial Times. “It seems there was a high chance they were attacked by a flying object. The impact was well above the water. I don’t think it was a torpedo.” The Japanese ship owner did not say who might be responsible for the attack. Iran has vehemently denied it was involved.

    It is a testable summary; early critique includes an obvious point on many people's minds: "We’re watching in real time", journalist Sam Sacks↱ tweeted, "as the dumbest fucking people try to manufacture a war. It’s almost funny except that it could lead to millions dead."

    Some of this ought to be objective: Where is the hole in the boat, and how does that reconcile with whose stories?

    Social media is, of course, abuzz to clamorous cynicism recounting the American history of dubious pretenses intended to justify utterly senseless warring. Additionally, this is one of the most incompetent American presidential administrations in history, if not the outright worst. A commentary line from a video game over twenty years ago reminded that a society aspiring to its lowest qualities will see those aspects reflected in the leaders they choose. Not only is President Donald Trump a current high point for the expression of low American qualities, it is also a rarified iteration of, well, something. That is to say, one of the reasons we wouldn't believe this a provocateur job is the point of how poorly it would seem to be executed; by comparison, however, the Trump administration has shown such extraordinary incompetence and foolhardy ignorance that we would be foolish to simply presume against the possibility for the sake of a romanticized presumption of exceptionalism simply not present, or—particularly, we might note, for sake of its incompatibility—really part of how American society works.

    Early reports also noted these were not American tankers, and their cargo was headed to Japan; occurring during Prime Minister Abe's meeting with the Iranian government, there remains the real possibility this has to do with Iranians, and not Americans, i.e., an internal affair.

    Such as it is, history burgeons with dubious chapters; pretenses to the innocent nobility of American warring schemes are themselves laughable, but even within the strained bounds of such tenuous traditions as appeals to hope and freedom and leadership, well, therein we find the problem. The Trump administration is so bad at this, we would, by Ockham and LaPlace alike, be irresponsible to pretend their innocence, nobility, exceptionalism, or even a clue, in the utter failure to comprehend even basic statesmanship. The failure of statesmanship is one thing, and willful subversion quite another; in any case, American credibility is exceptionally strained right now, and nearly as if that was the point of Trump foreign policy.

    Two points to remember about the Administration, Republicans, and their supporters:

    • American conservatives are the ones known to argue that government just doesn't work; the cynicism shown the American line vis à vis Iran finds increased receptivity in the marketplace, i.e., so openly doubting presidents, is largely over the course of my lifetime, and particularly and explicitly during the Trump years, a result of Republican dysfunction, scheming, and in recent years, open sabotage.

    • In electing Donald Trump, war with Iran is part of what they voted for.​


    @SamSacks. "We’re watching in real time as the dumbest fucking people try to manufacture a war. It’s almost funny except that it could lead to millions dead." Twitter. 14 June 2019. 14 June 2019.

    Latza Nadeau, Barbie. "Japanese Oil Tanker Owner Says U.S. Is Wrong About Gulf Attack". The Daily Beast. 14 June 2019. 14 June 2019.
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Iran ain't our enemy!
    Russia ain't our enemy.

    Curious timing:
    Japanese pm, Shinzo Abe was meeting with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
    and then a Japanese tanker is targeted
    Saudi Arabia?

    and then, our favorite toady GB backs the Pompeo nonsense
    Why are we led by warmongering assholes?
    just flicked on cnn
    their talking head was blaming Iran for the attack
    i doubt that cnn supports Trump, or any republican for that matter
    from the clip I saw, they do, however seem to support war
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    War with Iran has been a Republican Party cause since Reagan. (So has war with Libya, war with Syria, etc.).

    CNN has "supported" - in the sense of collaborating in the case for - Republican Party warmongering, consistently, for decades now.

    CNN has also been pushing the Republican Party media feed and framing, especially the "bothsides" take on everything, all that time.

    Whether you regard a reliable parrot and media ally as a "supporter" or not is a matter of your own private definition, of course, but the boost Trump got from CNN's 2016 campaign coverage is a matter of historical record - as is CNN's handling of the various criminal investigations into Trump's foreign and domestic affairs, CNN's handling of partisan Congressional dealings, and so forth.
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    The most obvious observation one can make is that the ships are still floating.
    If Iran wanted to sink those ships they would have succeeded.
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    So Trump sees BW imagery of Iranian personnel REMOVING un-exploded ordinance and assumes they are responsible for putting it there to begin with....
    Perhaps they need to consider that Iran may have been actually attempting to save the ship from further damage with an act of courage?

    Trump in usual style will go to war simply because:

    "Iran did do it and you know they did it because you saw the boat," Mr Trump told Fox News. src:
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    imagine the never ending war bond rallying
    looks like one of them is holding a type of shoulder launch missile

    i do realise the entire video could have been made up/fake.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  10. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    If that were the case, Iran would have clearly and immediately said that's what they were doing, loudly, multiple times so everyone at the back of the room can hear it too. I can't say whether the video is authentic or what exactly it indicates, but there's zero reason to think it shows Iranian sailors saving lives.
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    i watched the video again in full screen and what i thought was a thing looking like some type of missile now looks like a double barrel machine gun mounted on the boat.
    like a small version of the (i looked on google) Z-U-32-2
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    In a perfect world with perfect communication every one would know what the hell was going on....
    For all we know it could be an IRAQ widower who hates Iran more than he hates the USA who happens to have a few resources... baiting the USA into a war...
    The local Iran sailors with out Head approval, fearing a USA strike do what they can to deal with the possibility of further damage to the ship.
    It could be hundreds of possibilities...
    If the USA was serious they would ask Iran for the limpet mine that was removed so that forensic investigation could take place.
    If Iran is innocent they would gladly offer the mine for investigation.

    Another thing is that if it is indeed a limpet mine it is a weird looking one. Triangular limpet mines would be very uncommon. Normally they are either circular or rectangular in shape.

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    So it is all very curious... for sure...
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Regardless of who is responsible, two small holes in the side of a tanker is no good reason to unleash the death and destruction machine.
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Agrees...especially as it is Trumps bullish lack of diplomacy skills that has provoked the entire thing....
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    When the press corp are issued hip waders before the briefing
    it's a fairly good indication that the daily bullshit is gonna be deep.
    ain't no way in hell that the iranians would attack a japanese tanker while the japanese pm is meeting with the Ayatollah
    there are, however many other players that would attack the japanese tanker as a warning to Japan to not deal with Iran.
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    amen to that!
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    That photo of the triangular mine actually looks like the mine has been photoshopped in... the angles are not quite right... I am sure if it is doctored we are going to hear about it...and it is just the sort of crazy stunt Trump would try to pull.
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    True, Saudi Arabia tortured and murdered a guy in their embassy and we did nothing.
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    It's not that long a list.
    Something to keep in mind come November of 2020.

    It's too late meantime, of course - cross your fingers.
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Side matter: According to the people I've been listening to for all these years, there's a tragedy under this:

    Of all the countries and peoples in the general region, Iran may be America's most natural ally and friend. And it's America that screwed the pooch, betrayed the friendship.

    This is all personal and conversational, but going back a while to when more normal relations were possible, regional travelers and visitors from America's midwest and industrial regions almost universally remark on how much easier and more comfortable they felt in Iran than elsewhere in the region - the religion wasn't as oppressive and weird, the sense of humor was congenial, the politics and street courtesies familiar, life was just not as perverse and alien. They liked Iranians, and Iran. They came back with stories of good times and good people. They didn't come back with stories of gambling pools that paid off to the first person who saw a princeling pick up anything heavier than his wallet, or having to leash their possessions to their bodies when they slept to discourage thieves, or living in continual wariness of giving inadvertent offense.

    And geographically, of course, it's dead center.

    It should have been. Find the right politicians, the right diplomats, it could be.
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    With every unsubstantiated claim, the US is losing credibility.

    A source close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said, "These are not definite proof that it's Iran."

  22. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    I don't know, guys. It's not sounding very hopeful...

  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member


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