To be cremated or not?

H

Humbled

Registered Member
Hi Everyone!

Wow! There are some passionate debates going on here!!!

There is a question that I have been struggling with recently - one that my family has asked me to answer in light of my impending death - "What should we do with your body?"

It might sound morbid but it is a question which I want to answer in a reasonable way - in a manner that will make my family members comfortable - with a reasonable amount of understanding and compassion for their differing views. Right now, it really doesn't matter to me - But it does matter to those in my family who hold various strong views on the matter. I'd like to make my decision and inform them as soon as possible so I don't leave this world giving them more grief by not expressing my wishes - If I don't give them an answer it might cause them to fight and argue over what to do with my body and I don't want them to be in that position when I die.

So, if anyone has a strong view about cremation vs burial, I'm interested in hearing the reasons why you hold your opinion on the matter.

Thanks so much.

Humbled
 
Humbled,

I must say you've got a tough one, I don't really have an arguement for either, but the other day I was thinking of what I would want if my mother died and I think I would want a burial. I thought this purely because when I visit where she's buried it would give that sense as if she's there, her resting place. Other than that I really have no idea, but there are much greater minds than mine here, they can probably help more.

Hope you resolve the issue, it must be a sensitive one.

It's good to have you here, and as said to me recently.... Welcome to exosci! :)

ps- wouldn't mind hearing what you've learnt through this part of your life if you don't mind sharing. :)

[This message has been edited by Francis Ritchie (edited August 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Francis Ritchie (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
I am very sorry to hear about your impending death. If you think about it, though, he who is not busy being born is busy dying.

I favor cremation. When my mother died it had come suddenly and unexpectedly. We had no idea what to do. We found ourselves with only a limited amount of time to make a decision, and a limited amount of money to do anything with since the life insurance premiums had gone too high and we had to drop the policy in order to eat. We were, of course, emotionally devastated and in no condition to make major financial decisions. Fortuately, we had a very good friend come to our collective side and help us avoid what became a "car-salesman" approach on the part of the funeral home. We left the funeral home and debated the issue over a few Big Macs and here's what we came up with:

Funerals are for the benefit of the living.
Funeral=$10,000 Cremation=$300 (when you live below the poverty line, this is a BIG consideration)
Cremation=You get to keep your loved one in the front room (and trust me the newly created vacancy doesn't feel half as bad).
Your family doesn't have to go through that one last look at you lying in a plush, ornate coffin while going through another emotionally traumatic bout so soon after barely recovering from the initial shock of your death.
Cremation=Your family has the ultimate, final say about the condition and upkeep of your resting place.

We had my mother cremated and she now sits in a box in the front room where, rather than being abandoned in a field somewhere, she is surrounded by her family. When my father dies, he is going to be cremated and his ashes will be stirred in with my mother's, then they're both going to their favorite place on this planet, Sedona.

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
Greetings, Humbled!

Hm, interesting question, one I recently changed my personal views on.

Old opinion: Donate as many body parts as possible, then cremation. Scatter my ashes someplace pretty that you'll enjoy visiting.

New opinion: Donate as many body parts as possible, then bury whatever's left and plant a tree on top. Go talk to my tree when you want to see me or talk to me. The tree will be nourished by what's left of my physical remains, so in a very real sense the tree is a sort of extension of my body. Call the tree by my name, and know that if it's possible for me to do so, I will notice.

I am a pagan, so I know that colors my preferences as well. I know that nature runs in cycles, Momma Nature doesn't waste anything, so I felt that burning my body and tossing ashes about was a waste (and therefore not something Momma Nature would prefer) when those same body bits could nourish the earth and other people instead.

It is also a way for much of my living body to remain alive - hopefully my heart and eyes and blood and bones and other assorted bits and pieces would be in good enough shape to be transplanted into an ailing body and live a few more years enriching someone's life. And the leftover bits humans couldn't use, why not donate them to a tree that can be nourished and enriched by those bits. Those bits will decay and be consumed by the tree and the earthworms... It feels like a very good way to complete the cycle of life - giving back a little bit of what I've been taking from the world for the span of my existance.
 
I realize from Oxygen's post I left some stuff out, too.

I don't want a big fancy-schmancy box to house my body. Frankly, I'd be happiest if they'd just toss my 'leftovers' after the harvesting into a bucket and then just dump the bucket into a hole in the ground, but I think there are laws that prevent that sort of thing. So, if I MUST (legally) have a box, buy the cheapest dang thing you can find. If they've harvested enough of me, buy the smallest box you can find. I don't give a hoot if you gotta fold me up to squish me in there, heck, run me through a blender first if that helps. LOL!! I DON'T want to be enbalmed in any fashion, just bury me and let me rot like Nature intends.

I agree with you, Oxygen, I don't need my family coming and viewing my cold old corpse and getting all maudilin. Plant me in the ground, put a tree on top and then have a kegger afterwards, party it up and spill a bit of beer on the ground in my honor if you feel the need, that's good enough for me!! :)
 
Humbled,

Yes, welcome to exosci! I, too, am sad to hear you won't be with us much longer. I admire you for thinking about your family at this time rather than dwelling on what seems to be inevitable. It must be a tough thing for you to face. I hope that you are at least able to enjoy the time you have left on this planet with those you love and who love you.

For myself, I would choose the same as MoonCat, except for the donating of body parts. I have my own reasons for that, which I don't think I want to go into at this time.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I wish you all the best.



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An ye harm none, do what ye will.
 
Dear Francis, MoonCat, Oxygen and Searcher:

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful replies and your warm welcome!

Francis, you made a good point - since I, myself, do not visit cemeteries after burials, I almost forgot that some people do! Thanks for reminding me that some people find comfort in it.

What have I learned through this part of my life? Really - I wish I had some profound words of wisdom for you but I don't.

Some things that I have heard and seen during my lifetime have become more pronounced, though, and they bear more weight than they used too.

For example - Years ago I heard an elderly lady being interviewed on the boob tube - someone asked her how, after so many years of living, did she manage to maintain such a positive attitude? The very old lady said that every morning that she wakes up she is faced with a choice. She can either choose to be sad or choose to be happy. With enthusiasm in her voice and a great smile on her face, she said, "So, I choose to be happy!" Although I probably heard those words one fleeting moment when I was vegging in front of the boob tube years ago - Now, I think of those words almost as soon as I wake up every morning - And I make my choice.

Another example - I'm sure you've heard it said that appearances are everything. Well, I'm almost sorry to say that there is much more truth to that than I ever realized. I'm not VERY old, just riddled with the big "C" and the chemo which has kept my body alive has destroyed any physical attractiveness that I might have - to the point that I don't even recognize the body that houses me any longer. It's really bad - and it shuts the door to face-to-face communication with others. People are not comfortable with the physical "ugliness" and I don't blame them - I just never realized HOW important appearance really was. The internet has been a true gift for me since the physical stigma is not an obstacle - people can see me here for what I really am and the real "me" can engage in meaningful conversation with others.

That's about all the strength I have for now. Tomorrow, I hope, I can respond to MoonCat, Oxygen and Searcher.

Again, thanks for the warm welcome.
 
*HUGS* Humbled,

Welcome! What a decision to make...my advice is to let the relative or friend with the most weight decide. You know, whoever it is out there that will be missing you most, or "visiting" you the most. Unless of course it's your parents or children who are debating, then I'd say have them flip a coin?? Theoretically, it doesn't matter that much from my own perspective. Once the soul is gone, it's back to the earth in some form or another, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. You're certainly not going to care one way or the other...you'll be in a much more comfortable place then anyway. And from your loved ones perspective...I know that after my grandmother passed away several years ago...there were a lot of things that I had left unsaid...because of issues with my father, I unfortunately hadn't seen her in a few years...my brother and I mustered up the nerve to go to the visitation and funeral under estranged familial circumstances, and fortunately were well recieved, but the services are for sharing with other family members, consoling loved ones, and remembering with others. It's a social event of sorts, in other words. After I got home that night, I laid in my bed and said what I had to say to my grandma in private. I figured that she wasn't in her body anymore, so it didn't matter where or when I said it, just that I did, and just that I wish I had before she left. I don't really see the point of visiting grave cites...people who are dear to us are memoralized in our memories, and in our hearts, and in the internalization of what we valued and loved about that person. That way, they can live forever with us.

I'm sorry for all of the pain and suffering that you must be going through and have been. Just so you know though, physical appearance isn't REALLY important...people just THINK it is. They're wrong you know? Real beauty comes from inside a person. And beauty is relative...in the eyes of the beholder. Some people think Marilyn Manson is beautiful. That's his whole point for being so "ugly" ironically...to bust up some paradigms. I like that. I guess some people just need to tweak their perspectives a bit that's all. Hang in there honey. We all think you're gorgeous! XXOO

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
 
Humbled,

You just take your time responding, I think you've got the best possible excuse for late responses! :)

I think you're very right about our decisions on how to live each day. That old woman had it nailed! I've experimented with just that sort of thing. If I go to work in a black mood, pretty soon everyone around me is edgy and complaining. If I go to work cheerful and bright, pretty soon everyone around me is a bit cheerier. So every morning nowadays I take a few moments for 'attitude adjustment'. I try to make sure I'm in as positive a mood as I can be before I see anyone else. My husband loves it when I wake him up in the mornings now, I manage to cheer him up even though I'm shaking him out of a very comfy sleep. :) It's contagious, from inside of us to the outside, and from the outside to others around us.

I think cemetaries are important, personally. Have you ever visited one, especially an old one? I love visiting the older ones, you can see the entire family history - stones from the 1800's right up to the present. Such a feeling of connection. I can't imagine being able to go to a graveyard and visiting generation after generation, all buried in the same spot. (My family is scattered everywhere). For me a cemetary isn't a depressing or sorrowful place, even during a funeral. It's a place of completion, of rest, of ending.

My dear uncle died a couple of years ago, and it hit us very, very hard. Inside the church it was depressing, dark, everyone was crying their eyes out, muttering rememberances to the group through handkerchiefs, breaking down... just awful. But then the burial...it was in Washington, an absolutely glorious spring day out in a cemetary surrounded by forest. As they lowered him into the ground, I couldn't help but feel joyous. I wanted to sing and dance and shake my butt and throw my hands in the air, I could just feel the beauty soaking into me. (and this was before I was a nature worshipping Pagan too, lol) I knew that he was going to become a part of all that lush greenery and glowing life. We played his favorite Grateful Dead tune, Brokedown Palace, and it was the most appropriate thing we could have done. Heck, even the priest was singing along. :) Someday I'll have the money to visit him again, and when I do I'm planting a weeping willow on his grave, so he can rest under it, just like in that song.

Cemetaries, graves, funerals, these are all for the people who will be missing you. People want a physical place to go, or a urn to visit, or something tangible to do or say or go to. If you do choose to be buried, try to pick someplace your family will like. Maybe visit a few places with them yourself, if you can.

Cremation can be just as meaningful and tangible too. Like the urn on the mantle. Or being scattered someplace precious to the family. My dad's sister-in-law recently passed away (due to cancer too), they scattered her at the campground they all have gone to for about 30 years. Now it's "camping with Glenna" when they go, and they call the place "Glenna's campground". Every time they go to that special spot they think about her and remember good times there.

I hear what you're saying about "ugliness", but I doubt it's all physical apperance that makes people a bit uncomfortable around the dying like yourself. People are uncomfortable around disabled or dying people. They don't know what to say. I know a lot of people who just end up sitting there trying to think of something to say that doesn't remind you of the fact you're sick and/or dying, or sound too cheerful because it's a serious situation and they don't want to seem irreverant, etc. And if people aren't especially familiar with you anyway, they might be unsure how to deal with you physically - if you reach for something should they jump up and grab it for you, or should they let you do it yourself? If you start to cough or something, what are they supposed to do? And finally, I think a lot of people don't want to be reminded of their own mortality. I'm sure they remember how well you used to be, and now...you're not. That means that could happen to anyone, and most people fear death, and disease, and illness.

Anyway, this is awfully long so I'll shut up now. :) We're glad to have you here @ Exosci.
 
Humbled,

I don't have much to say, but thank you so much for sharing that. It's good to hear from someone who doesn't take life for granted. I have to admit it is sad that our society relies on appearances, and it's sad that you yourself are a victim of that. But it's grewat that we also live in a world that can offer you a medium to comunicate, and I am eternally grateful to be a part of that for you.

This may not mean much to you, but God bless you! :)
 
Infinity,

You may even be more obnoxious than I am. Personally, that's a bit refreshing, even though it shouldn't be, but seriously man...chill out for a minute...or take it to another string, huh?

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.
 
Recently my grandfather passed away, and he had decided that rather than spending huge amounts of money on a buriel, the remainder of his savings would be donated to a few key organizations that helped him through his battle. He was cremated then the ashes burried in a cute little box next to his parents graves in a small rural graveyard. This still allows family a place to go to visit should they so desire, and prevents any uncomfortable feelings from people who do not like being in the same room as the deceased's ashes. When we went for the burial it was immediate family and grandchildren and a couple of shovels as we dug the hole. Kept things very peaceful for the whole family.

Just my 2 cents.

Sprout
 
That was really good sprout. It still gives the significance of a site to visit.

Lori,

Thanx 4 that :) I've noticed a couple of posts have changed the way you come across. It's good to see, stick at it friend.
 
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