Tipping over

[Vkothii]

The political side of things remains: given the probabilities and possibilities, what is the sensible response ?

"I can't respond to this."

Yeah, that sounds nice an' sensible, right there.

 

[OilIsMastery]

I live in Manhattan and the CO2 is just fine thank you. I love the smog. SO2 ftw.

An active volcano can emit 10 million tonnes of SO2 per day.

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

The large explosive eruption of Mount Pinatubo on 15 June 1991 expelled 3-5 km 3 of dacite magma and injected about 17 million tonnes of SO2 into the stratosphere. The sulfur aerosols resulted in a 0.5-0.6°C cooling of the Earth's surface in the Northern Hemisphere.

Nuke the volcanoes.

 

[Vkothii]

The earth doesn't treat us in any way at all. It's a lump of rock. It gives special consideration to no one.

Not even to you or me? Or sciforums? My goodness.

Species come, species go. The earth continues in its orbit completely unaware.

The difference is not in how the earth treats us, it's how we treat each other. That a human should value human life above all other really should go without saying. But, apparently, what is blindingly obvious to a two year isn't obvious to you.

A human should value human life, as in their own life and other humans' lives?
How much, or compared to what?

The planet doesn't value us or any other animals. Animals define their own value, in both senses of the word, so what's your value for human animal dominance, survival, or loss of somewhere to live? What does "value" have to do with any of those things?

 

[madanthonywayne]

The political side of things remains: given the probabilities and possibilities, what is the sensible response ?

There was a thread recently that quoted a cost of $45 trillion to make a dent in global warming. Do you honestly believe we can afford $45 trillion? Really?

We can't afford to address global warming in a significant way. Half measures will serve only to impoverish us and limit our ability to respond to any climate changes that do occur.

Oil supplies are running low anyway. We will ultimately develop alternative energy sources and, with $4 a gallon gas (with no sign of an end to the price increases), we will have a huge motivation to develop them.

Even within my home state of Indiana, they've recently built a huge windfarm:

Again, to be able to afford to make the adjustments we need to make, we need to avoid arbitrary carbon restrictions that choke off our economy and limit our ability to adapt to a changing world.

 

[iceaura]

There was a thread recently that quoted a cost of $45 trillion to make a dent in global warming. Do you honestly believe we can afford $45 trillion? Really?

I don't honestly believe that thread fact had the slightest connection to physical reality, or involved anything sensible people would even consider.

A 45 trillion dollar price tag on the effects of the CO2 boost itself sound much easier to back up.

In a situation in which a major factor is the rate of change - not just the change itself - even modest and ordinary measures undertaken in good time could have great benefits.

 

[madanthonywayne]

In a situation in which a major factor is the rate of change - not just the change itself - even modest and ordinary measures undertaken in good time could have great benefits.

Those measures will be undertaken without any government agencies holding meetings or imposing regulations. Carbon based energy is getting more expensive. This in and of itself will motivate the development of technologies to replace it.

Government mandates regarding carbon output will serve only to slow economic growth and delay the development of those technologies.

That's what I'm against.

 

[Andre]

So we are definitely back in the dark ages with yet another variation of armageddon, the infamous tipping point based on a completely false scientific perception.

It's completely unimportant that the enhanced greenhouse effect is completely falsified, both in theory and by factual observations. We can't do without the scaremongering So scaremongering we get, no matter what.

 

[Vkothii]

So we are definitely back in the dark ages

No, not yet, that's the plan though.

It's completely unimportant that the enhanced greenhouse effect is completely falsified, both in theory and by factual observations.

You're saying the GEO report is scaremongering?
Are the economic forecasters scaremongering too, is the Fed just working everyone up because they like to scare people, you think?

 

[Hippikos]

"Tipping Point", the Fear Factory is at it again. Next thing is "Stampeding", "Lemmings". Loon Hansen now wants to put the Oil Bosses on trial, back to the dark medieval ages, witch hunt, stakes. A good thing them days; no fuel burning, less C02, nice cold weather, everybody happy, aight?

 

[Enmos]

That's the most common theory for how the moon came to be orbiting the earth.

No, the theory is that a planet (Theia) roughly the size of Mars collided with Earth. The debris formed the Moon. This was long before any life evolved on Earth though.

It's really hilarious how some people can't see the difference between killing humans and killing animals.

What actually is the difference, apart from the fact that we ourselves are humans ?

I don't deny it at all. I do question the extent to which it is actually responsible for the slight increase in average global temperature we've seen over the past 100 years.

Oh come on..
Even if you take away global warming, life is still being destroyed by hand of man.

I also question our ablility to do anything about for a cost we can afford even if we are responsible.

I agree.
I question our ability to do anything about it regardless of the cost.

Finally, I question whether the trillions of dollars it would cost is the best use of that money in a world where many people don't even have access to clean water.

IF there is something we can do, we should do it regardless of the cost.

I happen to believe that ideas have consequences. When someone goes around constantly preaching about how the world would be better off without humans, someone, somewhere just might take them seriously.

Point taken..
I just can't take it when people start yelling that some animal population has run rampant (the kangaroos for example) and they need to be culled to save the local environment.
What people seem to miss is that there is a direct parallel with humans. The human species also has run rampant and is destroyed the environment because of their sheer numbers, just like the kangaroos.

 

[Enmos]

It's even more hilarious that some people think there is a difference. I haven't noticed Mother Earth giving us any handouts or special consideration.

Could it be the planet treats us just like all the other animals? Maybe we're animals too? Now there's a real gob-smacker.

Exactly.

 

[Enmos]

That a human should value human life above all other really should go without saying.

Justify ?

But, apparently, what is blindingly obvious to a two year isn't obvious to you.

So by your own admission it's a sentiment that small kids, that haven't fully developed their brain yet, enjoy ?
Awesome argument.
Humans (adults) have the brain power to see beyond the perspective of a two year old.

 

[Enmos]

"I can't respond to this."

Yeah, that sounds nice an' sensible, right there.

He's right though. It was Madant that posted that, not Oil.
You made an unintentional error there.

 

[Vkothii]

Ah well.

Perhaps there's another connection that isn't being spotted, or something.
If you shift the POV back to post #78, maybe.

 

[Enmos]

I know but the following was originally posted by Madant in post 75:

It's really hilarious how some people can't see the difference between killing humans and killing animals.

Then you replied:

It's really hilarious how some people can't see the difference between killing humans and killing animals.

It's even more hilarious that some people think there is a difference. I haven't noticed Mother Earth giving us any handouts or special consideration.

Could it be the planet treats us just like all the other animals? Maybe we're animals too? Now there's a real gob-smacker.

See ? You made a mistake there

 

[Vkothii]

Whoops, too many swigs of coffee.

 

[Enmos]

Whoops, too many swigs of coffee.

lol

 

[iceaura]

Those measures will be undertaken without any government agencies holding meetings or imposing regulations.

No they won't. Not as long as some people can make money for themselves by defying them.

Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons. Market forces don't prevent it.

You will never see a market-based development of a new basic societal infrastructure. It's not something markets can do.

 

[draqon]

I live in Manhattan and the CO2 is just fine thank you. I love the smog. SO2 ftw.

An active volcano can emit 10 million tonnes of SO2 per day.

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html


Nuke the volcanoes.

I lived down by Hoboken for my 6 years of my life, down to drain. The smog is disgusting, at least there are rains and storms to clear the air.

 

[Vkothii]

at least there are rains and storms to clear the air.

Yes, and there will no doubt be more rain and storms in Hoboken.
Or not.